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      03-11-2012, 08:18 AM   #23
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Efficient for sure..this is BMW's primary goal
Turbos with Active Sound piping the sound of the current V8 M3 into the cabin.......
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      03-11-2012, 08:25 AM   #24
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Back to the subject. I think the engine discussion about the engine is a moot point. It WILL be better than the S65.
Not if it goes into limp mode/overheats in less than 20 minutes at the track

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The real question is weight.
Totally agree, but my money is on it dropping 50-100lbs over the current. BMW makes some strange decisions, like no spare tire and no dip stick, but they understand where the industry is going and light weight is where its at. I think we have finally hit the bulk tipping point and cars are going to start shedding lbs. You can look at anything from the new Subaru Impreza (I think over 100lbs lighter), the F30, to the new 911, or even to the Sesto Elemento (sp?) for where the industry is going.
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      03-11-2012, 08:26 AM   #25
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Drove a 335is yesterday. The I6 is buttery smooth. IF the new M3 engine is an inline 6, it seems like it will be mixed feelings for me. I LOVE the S65, the sound, the revs, etc. But BMW's I6 is just soooooo smooth and refined. They're both great engines, just quite different.

Like others have said though, we're talking about an engine that doesn't exist yet.
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      03-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #26
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I was just vacuuming the mess my 3 year old made and was thinking "wow of only I could have a car that sounded like my Dyson!"
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      03-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #27
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Nowadays car beginning to have sound generator. Such as new m5 and new gs350
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      03-11-2012, 11:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdemetry View Post
Not if it goes into limp mode/overheats in less than 20 minutes at the track

Totally agree, but my money is on it dropping 50-100lbs over the current. BMW makes some strange decisions, like no spare tire and no dip stick, but they understand where the industry is going and light weight is where its at. I think we have finally hit the bulk tipping point and cars are going to start shedding lbs. You can look at anything from the new Subaru Impreza (I think over 100lbs lighter), the F30, to the new 911, or even to the Sesto Elemento (sp?) for where the industry is going.
That's what I'm hoping for but the F10 M5 is heavier than the E60 M5. Th3 curb weights for the F30 sedan show an increase according to Bimmer mag.

The problem that BMW faces, that the Impreza and 911 don't, is the expecation of increasing luxury from the crowd it markets to. Still, I am amazed at how Porsche continues to extract more power, more efficiency from the same engine and continues to keep curb weights down. The 997s are still very well appointed inside.
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      03-11-2012, 11:56 AM   #29
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and the 991s even more so. saw chris harris review says the new carrera s is a better car than the 997 gt3rs and thats high damn praise.
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      03-11-2012, 12:02 PM   #30
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i think there is a good chance it will be a smaller v6 version of the current m5 v8 (like the s65 is a smaller version of the s85)

it will be awesome, and im looking forward to it.

that said, i love my m3
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      03-11-2012, 12:27 PM   #31
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i think there is a good chance it will be a smaller v6 version of the current m5 v8 (like the s65 is a smaller version of the s85)

it will be awesome, and im looking forward to it.

that said, i love my m3
The S63TU revs to 7k RPM I believe. Was that an offspring from the V10? It would be awesome if a shortened/turbo'd S65 could rev to about 7500.

I would think a potential M3 TT V6 could be an S63TU minus 2 cylinders vrs using an S65. I've read that BMW is going to a modular engine program which standardizes displacement, HP targets, and TQ targets per cylinder and shares more parts. Not sure if M will follow this route.
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      03-11-2012, 12:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post

I would think a potential M3 TT V6 could be an S63TU minus 2 cylinders vrs using an S65. I've read that BMW is going to a modular engine program which standardizes displacement, HP targets, and TQ targets per cylinder and shares more parts. Not sure if M will follow this route.
right on, exactly the same thing i am thinking. exact same formula as the last m5 / m3.

iirc, the s63TU is not based on the v10, it is loosely based on the 4.4l tt v8 from the other x50 cars in BMWs lineup.

if the m3 motor is based on the m5 motor, ill be happy as hell
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      03-11-2012, 01:10 PM   #33
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Though I love the NA v8, after driving the 1m, I have to say I am looking extremely forward to what the crazy people at M division create with it. Can't hate on something that isn't even for sure. I really believe that they are truly trying to make a stand with the next m3(m4) which is why they have been taking so damn long and being so secretive about it. I guarantee the next engine will please everyone (including the V8 addicts like myself).
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      03-11-2012, 02:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
right on, exactly the same thing i am thinking. exact same formula as the last m5 / m3.

iirc, the s63TU is not based on the v10, it is loosely based on the 4.4l tt v8 from the other x50 cars in BMWs lineup.

if the m3 motor is based on the m5 motor, ill be happy as hell
You are probably right. I think I remember an article which showed the S63 intake manifold which was the main difference in the S63 and had some patents pending...it would arrange the intake pulses to minimize lag. Which is what M is apparently working really hard at...reducing turbo lag. Not so much making the most power although the F10 M5 does make a LOT of power!

Quote:
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Though I love the NA v8, after driving the 1m, I have to say I am looking extremely forward to what the crazy people at M division create with it. Can't hate on something that isn't even for sure. I really believe that they are truly trying to make a stand with the next m3(m4) which is why they have been taking so damn long and being so secretive about it. I guarantee the next engine will please everyone (including the V8 addicts like myself).
The 1M will probably be a very unique product with the non-linear response and liveliness (as reported)...wish it wasn't though. M needs something a little less civilized.
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      03-11-2012, 03:45 PM   #35
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tough to minimize turbo lag and still feed the engine enough air at high RPMs. That is the main challenge (along with fuel) that the N54 folks face with the stock turbos. It will be tough to have too high of a rev limit. Maybe that's why they may go with the triple fi (two traditional turbos, one electric) that they are thinking about. The electric generating power in low RPMs would allow for larger turbos and more top end.
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      03-11-2012, 05:31 PM   #36
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I dunno, there is just something magical about a high revving v8, and I'm sure a lot of fellow members can agree
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      03-11-2012, 05:43 PM   #37
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Doesnt matter the new will always be better... Ill take turbo anytime...
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      04-19-2012, 05:44 PM   #38
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e92 m3 is perfect all around....(except the fuel)...newer m3 should be much better,i would say...wait and get new m3..
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      04-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #39
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Doesnt matter the new will always be better... Ill take turbo anytime...




? What if BMW's M turbo has issues such as the n54?

And you can't say they won't..



I can guarantee if this new motor proves to be unreliable, the M division will be SEVERELY damaged...And they will lose many true loyalists.
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      04-19-2012, 06:14 PM   #40
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? What if BMW's M turbo has issues such as the n54?

And you can't say they won't..



I can guarantee if this new motor proves to be unreliable, the M division will be SEVERELY damaged...And they will lose many true loyalists.
Not that I disagree with your comment about reliability, but you happen to drive a car with an S54? One of the most unreliable engines to ever come out of ///M?

Between the rod bearing recall and the VANOS grenading the valve cover, you'd think they'd be out of business.
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      04-19-2012, 08:02 PM   #41
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tough to minimize turbo lag and still feed the engine enough air at high RPMs. That is the main challenge (along with fuel) that the N54 folks face with the stock turbos. It will be tough to have too high of a rev limit. Maybe that's why they may go with the triple fi (two traditional turbos, one electric) that they are thinking about. The electric generating power in low RPMs would allow for larger turbos and more top end.
I had a 335i loaner last week for 2 days. I really noticed the turbo lag in the 335i and it really impacted me compared to the immediate thrust offered by the S65 in my M3. It was only about 1/3 of a second, but seemed much longer.

If the new F80 M3 engine is a V, perhaps locating the two turbos inside the V and closer to the cylinders as BMW did on the new M5 will lessen, but not eliminate, the lag but it would still be there and it would take a lot of getting used to for me.

The S65 is just so intoxicating and addictive.

It will be interesting to see once the new engine is unveiled and really driven.
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      04-19-2012, 08:29 PM   #42
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Not that I disagree with your comment about reliability, but you happen to drive a car with an S54? One of the most unreliable engines to ever come out of ///M?

Between the rod bearing recall and the VANOS grenading the valve cover, you'd think they'd be out of business.



Fair point, but every enthusiast has loved the fact that M motors didn't need turbo's and S/C's to make them so special.. Up until now.

Which is why I said what I said...


Thank god my s54 was reliable, and my SMG. I honestly wouldn't hesitate buying another one out of warranty. Ask me if I would buy another 335 out of warranty....But hey, that's my problem. lol
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      04-19-2012, 08:44 PM   #43
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You are asking a biased crowd!!!!


I'll keep my s/c'd M3 thank you very much. Even if she didn't have a snail, I'd keep her.
Don't think it's a biased crowd. A lot of owners on here are not NA enthusiasts but are instead "latest and greatest" enthusiasts. Turbo engines will never offer the same noise and response of a NA engine.

In my mind turbo engines are simply M bowing to external pressures, be it environmental, governmental, or otherwise. M had even admitted that there was plenty of R&D left to do after the S85 (and S65) came out, in NA engines.

So, my next car won't be an M3 unfortunately (or M4.. or whatever). It'll probably be a Lotus or 911.
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      04-19-2012, 08:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
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? What if BMW's M turbo has issues such as the n54?

And you can't say they won't..



I can guarantee if this new motor proves to be unreliable, the M division will be SEVERELY damaged...And they will lose many true loyalists.
the block N54 has been able to handle 500+ WHP (~550+ crank) - weak point is the fuel pump, not a big deal as the warranty is extended. If you are stuck paying out of pocket, its a couple hundred bucks - again not a big deal. So - the N54 seems to have issues that are much less severe than the S54 IMO.
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