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      03-05-2012, 06:06 PM   #23
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The Volt would be well over $60k if it wasn't for our tax dollars subsidising the cost. Should not exist.
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      03-06-2012, 06:44 AM   #24
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LOL, massively delayed car now not enough demand and mandatory recalls. Success GM! Looks like nothing has changed. Let me know when you want to take more of my money since we got fed up and don't buy your crap cars anymore and you just cry for a taxpayer bailout.
Ahh, another Roundel hound not knowing the facts. The "recall" was voluntary on GM's part; it was not mandated by the DOT. So, with respect to safety, which would you rather have?

- a car that catches on fire (once) 3-weeks after a side impact crash test because the damaged car was not drained of the massive electrical charge in its battery (as dictated by the manufacturer’s recommendations for storing the car after a crash); or,

- a car that has a HPFP die on the highway with 80,000 pound semi's running up it's ass? or,

- a car that’s variable ratio steering system runs it into a Jersey barrier in an off ramp?
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      03-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #25
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AMEN!

Why would you spend $40k on a Volt when you can get a comparable Chevy Cruze at nearly half the price. You will never realize a gas savings on the Volt enough to offset the high price.

If a car needs a $7k tax credit (subsidy) from the government (and still doesn't sell) I would say that is proof the technology is not there yet to make a car like this viable.
Ever wonder how high definition TV got started in the US> Go read up on the Government's involvement in getting high def TV technology viable in the US. Funny how people were buying plasma TVs at $7K a pop when a decent 26 inch CRT TV was $500.
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      03-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #26
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The Volt would be well over $60k if it wasn't for our tax dollars subsidising the cost. Should not exist.
Where does that number come from?
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      03-06-2012, 07:48 AM   #27
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Ahh, another Roundel hound not knowing the facts. The "recall" was voluntary on GM's part; it was not mandated by the DOT. So, with respect to safety, which would you rather have?

- a car that catches on fire (once) 3-weeks after a side impact crash test because the damaged car was not drained of the massive electrical charge in its battery (as dictated by the manufacturer’s recommendations for storing the car after a crash); or,

- a car that has a HPFP die on the highway with 80,000 pound semi's running up it's ass? or,

- a car that’s variable ratio steering system runs it into a Jersey barrier in an off ramp?
Nice try, fool. GM issued a recall. That's not something you would have done?
And as for your little break down, I never made any mention to anything remotely close to what you're trying to get at. And way to skew your little results. Talk about transparent. F'ing people on this board.
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      03-06-2012, 10:02 AM   #28
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It's been said here earlier. The fact is: These are NOT cheap cars. They are $40K. They are never going to be selling hundreds of thousands of these cars.
Yes, there is a tax credit, but is everyone even eligible for the tax credit? The majority of the time the tax credit goes by how much you earn. If you earn too much, no tax credit.
I think I remember Toyota and BMW poking fun at the fact that it's a $40K electric Chevy Cruze.

Does Chevy need this car? Oh yeah!
Does the US need this car? Oh yeah!
Will I buy one? Oh NO!

Plain and simply, the vast majority of people buying cars are going from point A to point B and the drive doesn't really mean much to them (look at the top selling cars in the US and you'll agree).
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      03-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #29
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Where does that number come from?
Google "The true cost of a Chevy Volt". Dozens of pages of info. Comon numbers that appear are the that the Gov pays about $9k on the front end and another $7500 on the back end of each car.
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      03-06-2012, 02:04 PM   #30
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Nice try, fool. GM issued a recall. That's not something you would have done?
And as for your little break down, I never made any mention to anything remotely close to what you're trying to get at. And way to skew your little results. Talk about transparent. F'ing people on this board.
What part of my statement "GM issued a voluntary recall" wasn't clear. It was to improve the side impact performance of the chassis to lessen the damage to the Volt's battery cooling system. You're just another ignorant BMW fanboy who ignores the fact that BMW's build quality is sub par as compared to industry standards. 10-year/120,000 mile warranty on fuel pumps, but, oh GM builds crap. Please spare me.
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      03-06-2012, 02:06 PM   #31
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Ever wonder how high definition TV got started in the US> Go read up on the Government's involvement in getting high def TV technology viable in the US. Funny how people were buying plasma TVs at $7K a pop when a decent 26 inch CRT TV was $500.
The same idiots that are wasting their money on the Volt I assume... Be my guest, it doesn't hurt me. Oh wait, my tax dollars are subsidizing it.
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      03-06-2012, 03:23 PM   #32
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The same idiots that are wasting their money on the Volt I assume... Be my guest, it doesn't hurt me. Oh wait, my tax dollars are subsidizing it.
Yeah, so are mine. Difference is I'll be getting some of mine back.
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      03-06-2012, 03:37 PM   #33
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The reason that the Prius succeeded is because it costs 25k and in fact gets over 50 MPG on good old normal gas... Diesels have no chance here in the US due to higher diesel cost, pollution regulations and an overall hate for diesel. The Volt hasn't succeeded because it's a plug-in hybrid that costs $40K and comes from a recently failed company... that's that, there is little else to argue about here. You have to offer people a premium technology at a comparable cost with usability as solid as the previous technology... this is why the Prius has succeeded over and over. I predict Volt production to be done within 6 months and this whole thing written off as a loss. GM needs to focus on smaller, low displacement turbo motors for the future and increasing overall vehicle quality... this will save them, the Volt won't.
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      03-06-2012, 03:47 PM   #34
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The reason that the Prius succeeded is because it costs 25k and in fact gets over 50 MPG on good old normal gas... Diesels have no chance here in the US due to higher diesel cost, pollution regulations and an overall hate for diesel. The Volt hasn't succeeded because it's a plug-in hybrid that costs $40K and comes from a recently failed company... that's that, there is little else to argue about here. You have to offer people a premium technology at a comparable cost with usability as solid as the previous technology... this is why the Prius has succeeded over and over. I predict Volt production to be done within 6 months and this whole thing written off as a loss. GM needs to focus on smaller, low displacement turbo motors for the future and increasing overall vehicle quality... this will save them, the Volt won't.
I disagree in part. The Prius succeeded because it marketed it as car to the greenies that would save the planet. In general Greenies are anti-domestic about the US auto industry and like Japanese manufactured cars, which off set the concern for adopting a new technology. Toyota, in typical Japanese investment culture, built and sold the Prius at a loss knowing that in the long run the production numbers would create a profit for the vehicle line. GM is not in the financial postion to take the Volt as a loss on per-unit basis (bailed-out Wall Street won't let them). Like I said, GM needs the CAFE numbers the Volt gives it. Why do you think BMW is building the i3?
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      03-06-2012, 03:53 PM   #35
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I disagree in part. The Prius succeeded because it marketed it as car to the greenies that would save the planet. In general Greenies are anti-domestic about the US auto industry and like Japanese manufactured cars, which off set the concern for adopting a new technology. Toyota, in typical Japanese investment culture, built and sold the Prius at a loss knowing that in the long run the production numbers would create a profit for the vehicle line. GM is not in the financial postion to take the Volt as a loss on per-unit basis (bailed-out Wall Street won't let them). Like I said, GM needs the CAFE numbers the Volt gives it. Why do you think BMW is building the i3?
I am just going to quote this man and leave it at that...
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      03-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #36
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      03-06-2012, 04:38 PM   #37
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Say it "ALL" about what? What is in there about the Volt?

Or did we just turn another thread into a non-///M 3er > * thread?

And the Volt's a decent car, it just didn't live up to its hype. If they could sell it at a loss, they'd be OK. However, they're GM so they can't. It is what it is. Also, ENINTY made a good point about the HDTVs. The same can be said about a lot of cutting edge tech. If the "suckers" with the big bucks weren't there in the beginning to help the tech through its teething phase, we wouldn't see it in the mainstream.
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      03-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #38
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The reasons that GM did not sell the Volt as well as other Hybrid or Electric cars are due to branding and price, since most people think Toyota make better car and Prius is much much less expensive than Volt.

If I want a high mpg car today, I will buy a Prius C.
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      03-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #39
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Say it "ALL" about what? What is in there about the Volt?

Or did we just turn another thread into a non-///M 3er > * thread?

And the Volt's a decent car, it just didn't live up to its hype. If they could sell it at a loss, they'd be OK. However, they're GM so they can't. It is what it is. Also, ENINTY made a good point about the HDTVs. The same can be said about a lot of cutting edge tech. If the "suckers" with the big bucks weren't there in the beginning to help the tech through its teething phase, we wouldn't see it in the mainstream.
Apologies here if I did not contribute intellectually to the conversation as those above, but I was indirectly showing the blatant reality about current electric technology, especially since it is being discussed on a BMW enthusiast forum. They are simply not as fun to drive, they look horrid and do not instill as close an amount of enthusiasm as these guys showed in their review of the "conventional" sport compacts that are raising the bar when it comes to fuel efficiency. I'm sure there's some correlation with production/sales numbers, aside from the influence of the greater forces currently being discussed. Again, no intention to ruffle anyone's feathers here.
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      03-07-2012, 06:03 AM   #40
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The reasons that GM did not sell the Volt as well as other Hybrid or Electric cars are due to branding and price, since most people think Toyota make better car and Prius is much much less expensive than Volt.

If I want a high mpg car today, I will buy a Prius C.
So that is not a fair comparison. First off the Volt has been for sale in dealerships for only about 14 months now. The Prius is in its third generation and has been in the US market for 12 years. It would be totally expected that the Prius is a sales success as compared to the Volt considering it has had a 11 year on-sale advantage. When hybrids came out in 1999 to the US market (Honda Insight) there were both State-level and Federal-level tax incentives to purchase them (totalling about $6,000 if I remember correctly) . Also in the DC metropolitan area, where there are mandated HOV lanes, early adopters were (and still are) allowed to drive in the under utalized HOV lanes in Virginia on RT 95 and RT 66. A lot of buyers in the DC area bought the Prius only for the purposes of avoiding traffic. To this day, travel on HOV-only Route 66 inside the DC beltway and 85% of the cars during the HOV lane restrictions are hybrids, and most of them are Prius.

Toyota sold the Prius at a loss for the first few years, it just wasn't visible to the consumer as it is with a tax credit for the Volt.

Secondly, I can't see how anyone can call the Volt a failure after being on the market as new technology for only 14 months. GM's target was 10,000 cars the first year of production. They sold just over 7,800 cars (1,800 units more than the Prius in its first year on sale). That is hardly a failure. And the sales were made as gas prices were decreasing (until late in the year). Wait until gas goes to $5.00 a gallon this summer. Let's see what Volt sales do then.

These are rounded Prius sales numbers, by year from the hybrid cars website:

2000 – 6,000
2001 – 16,000
2002 – 20,000

And keep in mind that in 2000 we were in the middle of a oil war in the Middle East where no one knew what the price of gas was going to be. And the prius was way over-priced as compared to an equivalent Toyota Turcel (or whatever their econ-car was at the time).

So a lot of this discussion is plain-old GM bashing, by people without facts or historical perspective.
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      03-08-2012, 08:12 AM   #41
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What part of my statement "GM issued a voluntary recall" wasn't clear. It was to improve the side impact performance of the chassis to lessen the damage to the Volt's battery cooling system. You're just another ignorant BMW fanboy who ignores the fact that BMW's build quality is sub par as compared to industry standards. 10-year/120,000 mile warranty on fuel pumps, but, oh GM builds crap. Please spare me.
Stop with the Volt fanboy crap and overreaction. You test drive the car once and now you are slobbing all over it's knob and want to fight anyone who says anything other than pure sunshine pumping. You are transparent and poisoned. Keep digging that hole...
All this is very apparent from your behavior in this thread and others responding to you.
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      03-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #42
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Stop with the Volt fanboy crap and overreaction. You test drive the car once and now you are slobbing all over it's knob and want to fight anyone who says anything other than pure sunshine pumping. You are transparent and poisoned. Keep digging that hole...
All this is very apparent from your behavior in this thread and others responding to you.
No, fanboyism is when someone is myopic about a brand of car and doesn't accept the fact, or ignores, that said brand can make errors, or not the perfect car, which is the opposite of being transparent. I like BMWs; I have since I first drove an E21 in 1977, and since I first purchased one in 1988. However, I realize other carmakers also make good cars too and that BMW is not the end-all of automotive excellence.

Is the Volt the perfect car? No. Does it make sense in the right circumstances and worth consideration? Yes.

Cheers.
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      03-08-2012, 12:05 PM   #43
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No, fanboyism is when someone is myopic about a brand of car and doesn't accept the fact, or ignores, that said brand can make errors, or not the perfect car, which is the opposite of being transparent. I like BMWs; I have since I first drove an E21 in 1977, and since I first purchased one in 1988. However, I realize other carmakers also make good cars too and that BMW is not the end-all of automotive excellence.

Is the Volt the perfect car? No. Does it make sense in the right circumstances and worth consideration? Yes.

Cheers.
I never ignored or said that brand couldn't make errors. You choose to read into and overlay your own personal feelings about people's perception on the Volt and go off the deep end from there.
Not my problem...
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      03-08-2012, 01:07 PM   #44
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I never ignored or said that brand couldn't make errors. You choose to read into and overlay your own personal feelings about people's perception on the Volt and go off the deep end from there.
Not my problem...
Really. Nothing you said in your initial post was remotely factual and was conjecture on your part. I stand by my original assessment.
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