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      08-24-2006, 03:00 PM   #1
pawarrant
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Lightbulb Free of foreign oil in 10 years!

There is currently a bill proposed which will free the USA of foreign oil dependency in 10 years if passed. It is a very interesting idea and presentation by the CEO of Jet Blue Airways.
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      08-24-2006, 08:58 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by pawarrant
There is currently a bill proposed which will free the USA of foreign oil dependency in 10 years if passed. It is a very interesting idea and presentation by the CEO of Jet Blue Airways.
Wow, that's an awesome proposal!

It's too bad the libs will protest the digging of coal, just like they have drilling off the Pacific Coast and in ANWAR.

Libs want electric cars and bicycles! LOL!

Can't have anything with horsepower!
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      08-24-2006, 09:08 PM   #3
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What is more evil to the libs though big coal or big oil?
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      08-24-2006, 09:11 PM   #4
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Yes the conversion of coal to oil is viable from around $30 / barrel. this is why the price of oil will not remain high as OPEC is incentivised to bring the pirces down to make both oil sand and coal sources uneconomic
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      08-24-2006, 09:14 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pawarrant
What is more evil to the libs though big coal or big oil?
Big oil for sure. But once the digging begins, they're going to find a lizard or a bug that is endangered, and try to put a stop to everything. No?
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      08-25-2006, 06:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMD
Wow, that's an awesome proposal!

It's too bad the libs will protest the digging of coal, just like they have drilling off the Pacific Coast and in ANWAR.

Libs want electric cars and bicycles! LOL!

Can't have anything with horsepower!
Agree, very nice proposal. It would certainly give the US and other nations enough time to develop viable non-fossil fuel alternatives.

I did note, however, that it didn't mention that this process could be used to create gasoline -- is it their position that the U.S. oil industry would shift resources away from what coal will replace in order to produce more gasoline, or are will still going to be dependent on massive oil imports for gasoline production?

Also, I consider myself on the liberal side of the political spectrum, but CMD's categorization that all "libs" would hate this idea is excessive. We all know you don't like liberal thinking people, but not all of us are ultra left wing hippies. I consider myself a practical liberal. =)
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      08-25-2006, 07:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum09
Agree, very nice proposal. It would certainly give the US and other nations enough time to develop viable non-fossil fuel alternatives.

I did note, however, that it didn't mention that this process could be used to create gasoline -- is it their position that the U.S. oil industry would shift resources away from what coal will replace in order to produce more gasoline, or are will still going to be dependent on massive oil imports for gasoline production?

Also, I consider myself on the liberal side of the political spectrum, but CMD's categorization that all "libs" would hate this idea is excessive. We all know you don't like liberal thinking people, but not all of us are ultra left wing hippies. I consider myself a practical liberal. =)
And I consider myself a moderate conservative.

Do it.
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      08-25-2006, 09:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
There is currently a bill proposed which will free the USA of foreign oil dependency in 10 years if passed. It is a very interesting idea and presentation by the CEO of Jet Blue Airways.
Interesting. However, I don't think the USA is truly dependant on overseas oil.

I think that the opec countries are deliberately exaggerating their reserves to convince us that there will be cheap oil for another 100 years and to delay the impetus to develop alternatives.

The USA plays along with this exageration and imports oil from overseas (despite have plenty of other options at home) to avoid denting it's own reserves.

So when oil does become scarce enough that prices start to impact on our way of life the USA will control the majority of the worlds supply.
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      08-28-2006, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
As a petroleum engineer, I'm here to tell you that you don't know diddly. There's a vast difference between what you know and what you think you know.
Yeah whatever.

Anyway ... the general consensus amongst the scientific community is that the availability of affordable oil describes a 'bell curve'. The consensus is also that we have past the peak of this curve and that the quantity of cheap oil remaining is now reducing, whilst our consumption of oil is increasing.

There are a number of varying predictions about the quantity of remaining OPEC oil. Invariably the most optomistic are produced by the OPEC countries.

There are 2 reasons for this. It may be the case that they just know better - it's there reserve after all. However, they have good reason to exaggerate, because it is not in their interest to 'wean' the world off oil.

I tend to think an average view is probably accurate, which would mean that the OPEC spokesmen are exaggerating.

Also - the USA is a major oil producer in it's own right and their is no reason - practically or economically why the US would import oil.

This is why I form my view that the US is quite possible deliberately importing oil rather than using it's own reserves. Politically this would understandable and very sensible, because the balance of world power in the next 200 years will be with the countries that have ample reserves of oil.
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      08-28-2006, 01:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Also - the USA is a major oil producer in it's own right and their is no reason - practically or economically why the US would import oil.

This is why I form my view that the US is quite possible deliberately importing oil rather than using it's own reserves. Politically this would understandable and very sensible, because the balance of world power in the next 200 years will be with the countries that have ample reserves of oil.
I guess you are not aware, liberal pressure groups and politicians here have hampered our oil refining and exploration in a big way.
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      08-28-2006, 01:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
Please refer to my previous response.
Frankly I would rather not. It was characteristically rude and unhelpful and it contained no absolutely no relevant information.
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      08-28-2006, 02:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
I guess you are not aware, liberal pressure groups and politicians here have hampered our oil refining and exploration in a big way.
No - I'm not particularly aware of this.

The above is just my view as an outsider and I would add that I don't see anything wrong in the US trying to safeguard it's own reserves. In fact it's pretty sensible and probably extremely important to world stability.

If I am wrong and this is not happening then I think that is more worrying. In 100 years time I would suggest that we don't ideally want OPEC to be the last area with affordable oil.
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      08-28-2006, 02:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
Providing relevant information would take untold hours and frankly, I don't think you would understand.
Tell you what then - don't bother.
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      08-28-2006, 08:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed
Tell you what then - don't bother.
why don't you do your own research instead of being lazy ahd have someone else look it up for you. It's not like people have all these links they bookedmarked on every subject so they can provide quotes or what not.

But from my years of following this issue, even studied it in a couple of courses in school, it;s true that liberals have affected many environmental laws that caused damage to a variety of alternative energy sources to oil. One example is Nuclear power. The US hasn't built a new reactor since the 70's because of liberal protests and subsequent laws that made it extremely difficult to construct new reactors. Coal industry has also been shunned because of perceived higher pollution than oil, even though modern coal technology is just as clean if not cleaner. And yes it is true that there hasn't been a new refinery built in this country since the 70's (this was covered all over the news when a Hurricane hit part of the gulf coast that had a large percentage of oil refinery capacity in the US a couple of years ago)

Also why do you think the US have such higher emission standards that we cannot buy the kind of efficient diesel cars that other parts of the world have? Once these environmental laws are put into effect, they are extremely difficult to overturn, even when technological advances had made some of these laws obsolete.
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      08-28-2006, 08:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46rocket
why don't you do your own research instead of being lazy ahd have someone else look it up for you. It's not like people have all these links they bookedmarked on every subject so they can provide quotes or what not.

But from my years of following this issue, even studied it in a couple of courses in school, it;s true that liberals have affected many environmental laws that caused damage to a variety of alternative energy sources to oil. One example is Nuclear power. The US hasn't built a new reactor since the 70's because of liberal protests and subsequent laws that made it extremely difficult to construct new reactors. Coal industry has also been shunned because of perceived higher pollution than oil, even though modern coal technology is just as clean if not cleaner. And yes it is true that there hasn't been a new refinery built in this country since the 70's (this was covered all over the news when a Hurricane hit part of the gulf coast that had a large percentage of oil refinery capacity in the US a couple of years ago)

Also why do you think the US have such higher emission standards that we cannot buy the kind of efficient diesel cars that other parts of the world have? Once these environmental laws are put into effect, they are extremely difficult to overturn, even when technological advances had made some of these laws obsolete.
Someone has been paying attention!
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      08-28-2006, 09:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
Providing relevant information would take untold hours and frankly, I don't think you would understand.

Bob you're killing me


keep up the good work
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      08-28-2006, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed

Also - the USA is a major oil producer in it's own right and their is no reason - practically or economically why the US would import oil.

This is why I form my view that the US is quite possible deliberately importing oil rather than using it's own reserves. Politically this would understandable and very sensible, because the balance of world power in the next 200 years will be with the countries that have ample reserves of oil.

dammit you found out our evil plan!!

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      08-28-2006, 09:38 PM   #18
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I could be really off here. Butů He who holds the gold makes the rules.

And the oil companies hold the gold.

I some how, don't think that the companies that profit from petroleum will give up their profits and big business that easily.

There are so many other alternatives that are not being investigated.

However, BMW is on the forefront of this technology.

The hydrogen automobile runs on water, emit water vapor at the tailpipe, has no pollution and has been under development for 30 years.

Hydrogen as a motor fuel is the answer to many environmental problems since there are no harmful emissions, no depleting of resources, no danger to the atmosphere, and it can be produced from a variety of renewable resources.

The BMW solution is a Clean Energy system where liquid hydrogen is produced from water using solar power, the hydrogen is dispensed from automated filling stations and it powers modified BMW 7 H2R production vehicle.

My Liberal 2 cents...
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      08-28-2006, 09:51 PM   #19
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One more thing. Why can't GE make a light bulb that won't burn out?

Or can they?

At the very least they could make them last as long as my Zenons.
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      08-29-2006, 05:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLJJ3399
I could be really off here. Butů He who holds the gold makes the rules.

And the oil companies hold the gold.

I some how, don't think that the companies that profit from petroleum will give up their profits and big business that easily.

There are so many other alternatives that are not being investigated.

However, BMW is on the forefront of this technology.

The hydrogen automobile runs on water, emit water vapor at the tailpipe, has no pollution and has been under development for 30 years.

Hydrogen as a motor fuel is the answer to many environmental problems since there are no harmful emissions, no depleting of resources, no danger to the atmosphere, and it can be produced from a variety of renewable resources.

The BMW solution is a Clean Energy system where liquid hydrogen is produced from water using solar power, the hydrogen is dispensed from automated filling stations and it powers modified BMW 7 H2R production vehicle.

My Liberal 2 cents...
Sounds good in a sound bite, but you need to ask a physics major why liquid H2 for cars will never be viable
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      08-29-2006, 05:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46rocket
why don't you do your own research instead of being lazy ahd have someone else look it up for you. It's not like people have all these links they bookedmarked on every subject so they can provide quotes or what not.
I have 'done my own research', which led me to post what I did above.
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      08-29-2006, 05:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper
Sounds good in a sound bite, but you need to ask a physics major why liquid H2 for cars will never be viable
BMW seem to think there is an opportunity there:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006..._display_.html
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