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      02-21-2012, 07:33 PM   #1
ArkieTex
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Looking to order - Target over invoice?

Hi everybody,

So I'm looking to place an order on an E92 M3, and I'm trading in my current car. I did some searching and saw that alot of you guys are getting your cars for $600 over invoice from Ryan Amico, but he's in California and I'm in Austin, TX. My question is if this price has been on custom ordering a car or if you guys are getting $600 over on cars on the lot? I was thinking that there may not be as much bargaining flexibility if I were to order a car to my specs, but maybe I'm wrong?

I considered emailing some dealers in Dallas and Houston, but I'm getting a pretty fair trade in value on a car with an unclean Carfax and I don't really feel like driving all over the place to get trade in values on my car. I already had a dealer in Houston tell me he would not honor the trade in value of another dealer secondary to the unclean Carfax and that I would have to bring in the car to get a trade in value.

Also, I had a 2006 330ci but got rid of it about 2 years (26 months) ago. Would I still qualify for an owner loyalty bonus? If so, how much?

So what do you think I should aim for? Am I approaching this correctly in bargaining with "Sell me the car for $x over invoice?" Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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      02-21-2012, 07:39 PM   #2
ksflatlander
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First off, I NEVER talk about a trade to a dealer until I FIRST have negotiated the price of the car. It is then and only then, that you know what they are really giving you for your trade. Otherwise, they can pump sunshine up your backside with the great number they are giving you for the trade and then not come down much on the car you are buying.

Sell your car outright. Bit more effort but well worth it. You'll get more for it that way.

Then order your car from Ryan. He's great to work with and will ship it right to your door. No muss, no fuss.

Last edited by ksflatlander; 02-21-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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      02-21-2012, 11:00 PM   #3
jphughan
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Ordering shouldn't put you at much if any of a disadvantage in terms of negotiation compared to buying off the lot unless the new car has been sitting there for a while and they're trying to move it. Dealers actually like ordered cars precisely because there's no risk that it'll sit on the lot taking up space and depreciating because no one wants it or likes the car but goes elsewhere because it had the wrong options. Ordered cars come off the delivery truck and go right out the door, freeing up space on the lot to keep another car in stock.

FWIW I worked with Chris Markey at BMW of Austin last February based off forum recommendations, and he was fantastic. I did some research and found that at the time people seemed to be getting $750-1000 over invoice, and since Chris seemed to be a good guy from what I read, I decided that $1500 dealer profit over invoice sounded reasonable to me and should avoid the whole bargain/haggle phase. I emailed Chris with that offer, he emailed back within an hour to accept, and that was the final price of the car (plus Training and MACO fees, which aren't typically shown as part of the invoice pricing you find online but are considered part of the dealer's invoice cost). I didn't try to talk him down further later, and he didn't say yes just to get me in the door and then try to drive up the price. Could I have gotten a better price? Maybe, but I've found that if you try to squeeze the best possible deal out of good salespeople, there aren't as many good salespeople after a while. I may have paid a bit over average, but I was happy with the price and Chris gave me a great experience before ordering, during the wait period, and even after delivery -- including handling having my car taken to one of the top paint shops around to fix two TINY paint blemishes from the factory that I never would have noticed on my own. If paying that extra amount was partially responsible for the treatment I got and helps keep great CAs in the business, then I'm fine supporting that.

Remember, the difference between $500 and $1500 over invoice is hardly anything from the buyer's perspective on a $70K car percentage-wise, but it makes a HUGE difference for the CA.

If you go with Chris, tell him John Hughan referred you.
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Last edited by jphughan; 02-21-2012 at 11:32 PM.
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      02-22-2012, 01:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkieTex View Post
Hi everybody,

So I'm looking to place an order on an E92 M3, and I'm trading in my current car. I did some searching and saw that alot of you guys are getting your cars for $600 over invoice from Ryan Amico, but he's in California and I'm in Austin, TX. My question is if this price has been on custom ordering a car or if you guys are getting $600 over on cars on the lot? I was thinking that there may not be as much bargaining flexibility if I were to order a car to my specs, but maybe I'm wrong?

I considered emailing some dealers in Dallas and Houston, but I'm getting a pretty fair trade in value on a car with an unclean Carfax and I don't really feel like driving all over the place to get trade in values on my car. I already had a dealer in Houston tell me he would not honor the trade in value of another dealer secondary to the unclean Carfax and that I would have to bring in the car to get a trade in value.

Also, I had a 2006 330ci but got rid of it about 2 years (26 months) ago. Would I still qualify for an owner loyalty bonus? If so, how much?

So what do you think I should aim for? Am I approaching this correctly in bargaining with "Sell me the car for $x over invoice?" Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
ArkieTex,

First and foremost, what was said earlier is 1000% correct. You should not be mentioning your trade in, until AFTER you've negotiated your price for the actual car. In fact, as the earlier poster also said, you're better served by selling the car privately - you will get a lot more out of it.

Second, ignore entirely what the poster directly previous to me said about 1500 dollar over invoice being okay, and that you shouldn't mind paying an extra 1000 dollars. You SHOULD mind.

Your approach is simple - call the dealer, tell him exactly what car you want, exactly what options you want (know the names of the options, and even the option codes), and tell him that you want the car at X hundred over invoice. (no more than $600). Tell him, "if you can make that happen, i have cash in my pocket right now for the down payment and i can drive down today, and pull the trigger in the next few hours." Be firm. Again, tell him what price you what, and say "if you can make it happen, i can be there in the next few hours to knock this deal outt" Be prepared to hear a few no's. But in my experience, if you tell a dealer you can make the deal happen that day, with little hassle, they'll take a deal with little profit over invoice.

For what it's worth, I got my car for $300 over (european delivery) invoice. I'm probably on the low end of the spectrum, but i've heard of PLENTY of people getting $500 over invoice.


Hope that helps,
-esquire
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      02-22-2012, 09:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
ArkieTex,

First and foremost, what was said earlier is 1000% correct. You should not be mentioning your trade in, until AFTER you've negotiated your price for the actual car. In fact, as the earlier poster also said, you're better served by selling the car privately - you will get a lot more out of it.

Second, ignore entirely what the poster directly previous to me said about 1500 dollar over invoice being okay, and that you shouldn't mind paying an extra 1000 dollars. You SHOULD mind.

Your approach is simple - call the dealer, tell him exactly what car you want, exactly what options you want (know the names of the options, and even the option codes), and tell him that you want the car at X hundred over invoice. (no more than $600). Tell him, "if you can make that happen, i have cash in my pocket right now for the down payment and i can drive down today, and pull the trigger in the next few hours." Be firm. Again, tell him what price you what, and say "if you can make it happen, i can be there in the next few hours to knock this deal outt" Be prepared to hear a few no's. But in my experience, if you tell a dealer you can make the deal happen that day, with little hassle, they'll take a deal with little profit over invoice.

For what it's worth, I got my car for $300 over (european delivery) invoice. I'm probably on the low end of the spectrum, but i've heard of PLENTY of people getting $500 over invoice.


Hope that helps,
-esquire
Fair enough. You have your priorities and strategy and I have mine. I didn't want to deal with the whole being firm, putting up with dealers saying no, calling around, etc, and I decided that an extra $1000 (assuming I could've gotten $500 over) was a reasonable amount to avoid that -- especially amortized over the life of the car.

However, OP keep in mind that a lot of people who get $500 over invoice are doing Euro Delivery. Not everyone, but the reason I mention it is that dealers are more likely to take less profit on ED orders because those orders don't come out of their allocation; EDs are extra allocations. That means that taking a small profit on your ED order doesn't mean they have one less car for the year to try to make more profit on; they instead have just as many cars to sell at a profit as they did before your order, and yours is just a bonus -- though it's not pure gravy, since they actually have to do more work than normal to set up your ED in addition to all of the usual helping you, submitting the order, etc. And if the customer does Performance Center Delivery on top of that, the dealer doesn't even have to deal with delivery prep, inspection, etc, so they'd be even more likely to take less profit. Some people do seem to get $500 over invoice even with traditional delivery options, but that seems a lot more rare.
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Last edited by jphughan; 02-22-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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      02-23-2012, 04:05 PM   #6
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...paid $400 over invoice for a`12 e92 in MN, just delivered 14 Feb.
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