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      02-15-2012, 07:41 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
Are you suggesting a 4-way drag race on the highway?
I should probably rephrase my post, no Fast N Furious racing here.

How about a short drag race down a straightaway at MSR Houston
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      02-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwidjojo View Post
2008 M3 E92 - DCT
Stock
334 whp
246 ft-lbs

vs

2009 M3 E90 - 6MT
Performance Mods:
Turner Test Pipe
Evolve Software Tune
Active Autowerke Green Filter
340 whp
244 ft-lbs


so primary cat delete + tune only yields 6 whp increase??
I would suggest you read post 14 again.

The 09 m3 appears to have issues with the tune over 7k rpm.

From 4k to 7k it made between 15 to 20 whp more than the higher dyno'ing dinan car on average. The torque was also higher at 261 ft/lbs

The proper 5th gear dyno graph with annotations is posted on post number 14. Franklin just didnt have this data, thats why its not in the OP.

Once the car's tune gets looked at and the DRF files are analyzed, the car will be run again on the dyno.
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      02-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #47
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I don't think MSR has an area where they'd let us do a 1 mile drag race. But if they do, that would be fun!
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      02-15-2012, 08:47 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I would suggest you read post 14 again.

The 09 m3 appears to have issues with the tune over 7k rpm.

From 4k to 7k it made between 15 to 20 whp more than the higher dyno'ing dinan car on average. The torque was also higher at 261 ft/lbs

The proper 5th gear dyno graph with annotations is posted on post number 14. Franklin just didnt have this data, thats why its not in the OP.

Once the car's tune gets looked at and the DRF files are analyzed, the car will be run again on the dyno.
All this dyno talk is for the birds. The numbers are what they are, accurate or not. I guess my goal was to give Frank a car of similar mods to compare with. I really don't care about the end result of the run. I know what my seat dyno says.....so let's get over the graphs and analyzing and go drive GSS on the 25th.......horsepower won't matter.....Richard's car has the lowest HP rating but my guess is he'll turn a faster lap time than all of us .......Phil
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      02-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
All this dyno talk is for the birds. The numbers are what they are, accurate or not. I guess my goal was to give Frank a car of similar mods to compare with. I really don't care about the end result of the run. I know what my seat dyno says.....so let's get over the graphs and analyzing and go drive GSS on the 25th.......horsepower won't matter.....Richard's car has the lowest HP rating but my guess is he'll turn a faster lap time than all of us .......Phil
I guess. The dyno is a tool used for many things in my opinion. One of which is to analzye things like a tune in case a car may have one. If the tune has issues, it may not be as easy to tell on the street but you can definitely tell on the dyno.

For me and many others, this provides value and is something that is fun to analyze and try to understand. If it isnt of value to you, thats cool too.

But I think it provided valuable information, and the car will be running better as a result of having run the car on the dyno and gathering this information.

I am not sure anyone was trying to make a correlation between dyno power and who is or isnt the best driver or etc on the track. I know I wasnt trying to make that connection. I know for sure I am the worst track driver since ive never done it before lol. Looking forward to getting out there and having some fun!

Looking forward to my first time on the track. GSS should be great for those who can attend.


Last edited by KennyPowers; 02-15-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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      02-15-2012, 09:01 PM   #50
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would like to see how much more power ZCP made, J/K!!!!

but yes, looks like catless is the best way to gain power and not lose tq?
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      02-15-2012, 09:41 PM   #51
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frankzlin, i like your cover of apologize
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      02-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #52
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Quote:
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frankzlin, i like your cover of apologize
Ha ha ha...awe you noticed. I like it too lol
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      02-15-2012, 09:59 PM   #53
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Am I missing something? It seems like the power gains that each modification is supposed to make is not even close to the results shown here. The Turner test pipes are supposed to make "over 40whp" but here it shows only 6whp with a tune. Are the product manufacturers lying? Almost pulled the trigger on a HFC x-pipe, but after seeing this, I have my doubts.
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      02-15-2012, 09:59 PM   #54
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KennyPowers: In looking at your graph, you make HP until 8200 rpms (and then it dips down sharply). You make TQ until 7200 rpms (then it drops down slowly)

On my car, I make HP all the way to 8400 rpm and make TQ until 7200 rpms (then it drops down slowly).

I think your car did very well. We basically have a similar torque curve (almost flat until 7200 rpms). As for HP, you being in a manual transmission, I think you should be shifting at 8200 rpms (at your max HP) anyway so you play it safe and not red-line.
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      02-15-2012, 10:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nition View Post
Am I missing something? It seems like the power gains that each modification is supposed to make is not even close to the results shown here. The Turner test pipes are supposed to make "over 40whp" but here it shows only 6whp with a tune. Are the product manufacturers lying? Almost pulled the trigger on a HFC x-pipe, but after seeing this, I have my doubts.
The moral of the story is you can't compare the 2008 E92 with the 2009 E90. It's comparing apples to oranges, even though they are both M3s. To see how much power the turner test pipe + tune made on the 2009 E90 you have to compare it to a baseline dyno when completely stock (same 2009 E90) on the same dyno.
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      02-15-2012, 10:05 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankzlin79 View Post
KennyPowers: In looking at your graph, you make HP until 8200 rpms (and then it dips down sharply). You make TQ until 7200 rpms (then it dips down slowly)

On my car, I make HP all the way to 8400 rpm and make TQ until 7200 rpms (then it drops down slowly).

I think your car did very well. We basically have a similar torque curve (almost flat until 7200 rpms). As for HP, you being in a manual transmission, I think you should be shifting at 8200 rpms (at your max HP) anyway so you play it safe and not red-line.
The main thing I noticed on the graph is that from 7k to redline your car pulled to redline gaining 40whp over this interval.

My car over the same interval gained 10whp. Evolve has seen the graph I posted in post 14 and feels that there is something wrong as I do as well.

Overall, I really like my mods an even if they can't fix the issue, I still love my car.

I like how linear your car pulls and it sounds and looks great. That kind of power curve is going to feel great ad predictable on the track!

Are you Going to start tracking your m3?

Last edited by KennyPowers; 02-15-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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      02-15-2012, 10:18 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I like how linear your car pulls
This was so the point I was making in post #8. Based on my experience Dinan mods are always conservative. Even my E36 M3 with full bolt on Dinan had conservative numbers. But the quality is more important to me. Based on the linear power curve we show, their tune delivers the power the way it should be delivered.....all the way up the band without sacrifice...............Phil
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      02-15-2012, 10:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankzlin79 View Post
The moral of the story is you can't compare the 2008 E92 with the 2009 E90. It's comparing apples to oranges, even though they are both M3s. To see how much power the turner test pipe + tune made on the 2009 E90 you have to compare it to a baseline dyno when completely stock (same 2009 E90) on the same dyno.
But there is still no way that it makes only 350whp IF the claims are true (+40whp). The 08 M3 makes 340ish, a 09 would not be that far off. Even if a 09 makes only 330whp, the whp of the 09 M3 + Turner pipe + Tune should be well over 360whp if the claims are true. From my understanding, these cars were dyno'd on the same day. Hence, the temperature/conditions must be similar if not the same. If this is the case, I still question the claims made by the manufacturers of the products. It's the same for the Dinan-modified cars, they seem to be making less power than what Dinan claims they should make.

Please don't take my comments as an attack on the manufacturers or anyone else. I own a M3 myself and I also modify my car. I just need credible answers if I were to continue buying performance upgrades. I know this forum is full of very knowledgeable owners. I hope you guys can chip in and explain to less experienced folks like me why this is so.
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      02-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nition View Post
But there is still no way that it makes only 350whp IF the claims are true (+40whp). The 08 M3 makes 340ish, a 09 would not be that far off. Even if a 09 makes only 330whp, the whp of the 09 M3 + Turner pipe + Tune should be well over 360whp if the claims are true. From my understanding, these cars were dyno'd on the same day. Hence, the temperature/conditions must be similar if not the same. If this is the case, I still question the claims made by the manufacturers of the products. It's the same for the Dinan-modified cars, they seem to be making less power than what Dinan claims they should make.

Please don't take my comments as an attack on the manufacturers or anyone else. I own a M3 myself and I also modify my car. I just need credible answers if I were to continue buying performance upgrades. I know this forum is full of very knowledgeable owners. I hope you guys can chip in and explain to less experienced folks like me why this is so.
first of all, all manufacturers overestimate their gains. learn that as a rule.

second of all, what franklin was saying is that not all m3s will dyno the same baseline numbers, even if they are stock. it is extremely likely that my car for example and richards, if both stock, would not dyno the same power. look at the huge variation in numbers from stock dynos that are posted on this site for proof. more proof is that both dinan cars had the same mods and didnt make the same power. if all m3s made the same power, such a variation would be impossible.

finally, it seems like you didnt read post 14 in this thread. compare the power under the curve between the modded cars and stock cars at all RPMs. this is what was done in post 14. you can clearly see the difference in power. it is possible that the 09 m3, with modifications to the tune, can make upwards of 360 SAE whp by making power all the way to redline. this is yet to be seen, and the car will be taken back to the dyno to see if we can make it happen.

not to mention that franks car makes 20+ SAE whp (which is not what most manufacturers use because SAE is more conservative and shows lower readings) more than the stock car at redline. this is not an insignficant gain.
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      02-15-2012, 11:01 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankzlin79
But can you make some corrections so that
credit is given...
Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankzlin79
I really qustion some of the entires in this database. Like this E92 6MT with only an Eissenmann Race exhaust making 370 whp (SAE Corrected)....
The good thing about having a dyno database at all, is you can get all of the information in one place and see what are the outliers and what aren't. The database currently has 480 entries so that gives you a lot of data to analyze. You can also search the database for any particul type of mod.
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      02-15-2012, 11:06 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nition View Post
But there is still no way that it makes only 350whp IF the claims are true (+40whp). The 08 M3 makes 340ish, a 09 would not be that far off. Even if a 09 makes only 330whp, the whp of the 09 M3 + Turner pipe + Tune should be well over 360whp if the claims are true. From my understanding, these cars were dyno'd on the same day. Hence, the temperature/conditions must be similar if not the same. If this is the case, I still question the claims made by the manufacturers of the products. It's the same for the Dinan-modified cars, they seem to be making less power than what Dinan claims they should make.

Please don't take my comments as an attack on the manufacturers or anyone else. I own a M3 myself and I also modify my car. I just need credible answers if I were to continue buying performance upgrades. I know this forum is full of very knowledgeable owners. I hope you guys can chip in and explain to less experienced folks like me why this is so.
Would you have less concern if the Dinan cars posted a 380 and the Tuner test pipe posted a 360 or so? I think all manufactures post numbers based on variables that we don't have access to. I read a article by Steve Dinan stating that certain parameters and equipment must be in place to achieve a "real" number on the dyno. It's all about marketing and the M3 community is eager to gobble up the next big horsepower mod. These companies are aware of this and have capitalized in a big way. I guess at the end of the day you have gotta pick your poison if you are going to mod.............Phil
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      02-15-2012, 11:09 PM   #62
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I'm sure every single manufacturer and vendor inflates HP and TQ numbers for after-market parts...Dinan included.
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      02-15-2012, 11:15 PM   #63
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Skid Pad Videos at MSR Houston






Last edited by frankzlin79; 02-16-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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      02-16-2012, 12:35 AM   #64
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Couple of observation.....we need to wet the entire pad next time and I need to put the power in normal mode.........Phil
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      02-16-2012, 01:06 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
Couple of observation.....we need to wet the entire pad next time and I need to put the power in normal mode.........Phil
I think the tires were just too cold because of the weather. Took a while to heat up.

May I suggests a drift competition next time? The longest drift wins
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      02-16-2012, 01:11 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard@M-World View Post
I think the tires were just too cold because of the weather. Took a while to heat up.

May I suggests a drift competition next time? The longest drift wins
Now you know I'm game.....although the advantage will tip in your favor (track rat) I'm always up for some good friendly competition ........Phil
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