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      11-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #1
Harpua
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Winter oil recommendation?

Apologies for the repeat thread originally posted in the Canada forums. I thought that this might reach a bigger audience.

I was wondering if any fellow winter drivers are using a lighter weight oil during winter use.
The 10w60 is great for high revving, high temp track days but I would guess not so much during a -10 degree cold start up and short DD commute.
I was thinking about switching to 0w40, either Mobil 1 or Castrol -- Both of which are fine by BMW's LL01 standards.
Opinions/experience/expert advice appreciated

PS My '08 E90 M3 is out of warranty.

Last edited by Harpua; 11-25-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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      11-25-2013, 01:40 PM   #2
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BMW recomends 10w60, stick with 10w60. Please do not change the viscocity of your oil. That engine was built to use 10w60.
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      11-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm3 View Post
BMW recomends 10w60, stick with 10w60. Please do not change the viscocity of your oil. That engine was built to use 10w60.

False. BMW has now said it is okay to use LL-01 oils, meaning you could run something like Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol Edge 0w40. Those would be noticeably better for ultra-cold starts. Nod goes to M1 for its ultra high viscosity index of 185, but in Canada it's expensive. You could also consider Red Line 0w40.
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      11-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
Apologies for the repeat thread originally posted in the Canada forums. I thought that this might reach a bigger audience.

I was wondering if any fellow winter drivers are using a lighter weight oil during winter use.
The 10w60 is great for high revving, high temp track days but I would guess not so much during a -10 degree cold start up and short DD commute.
I was thinking about switching to 0w40, either Mobil 1 or Castrol -- Both of which are fine by BMW's LL01 standards.
Opinions/experience/expert advice appreciated

PS My '08 E90 M3 is out of warranty.
I run M1 0W-40. Warms up to about 1/3 mark quicker than 10W60 used to, then it acts the same. There's quite a few members that have switched over.
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      11-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #5
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I have TWS but will change it soon. I migh actually even go with 0W30.
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      11-25-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm3 View Post
BMW recomends 10w60, stick with 10w60. Please do not change the viscocity of your oil. That engine was built to use 10w60.
TWS is a garbage oil for the winter. It has terrible cold flow properties as it just gets too thick and viscous. I never liked using such a thick oil in the winter but that was the only option from bmw. But recently with the revised LL01 recommendations and the bearing wear thread, it makes more sense to switch to something much lighter, especially for those of us out of warranty and have no concern about using a possibly unapproved oil.
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      11-25-2013, 02:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I have TWS but will change it soon. I migh actually even go with 0W30.

Make sure it's an ACEA A3/B4 0w30 (which means HTHS >3.5). There are a lot of 0w30s with HTHS of 3.1ish, which is way too thin. You probably won't generate sufficient oil pressure.

Only ones that come to mind are Castrol Edge 0w30, Renewable Lube 0w30, and Total Quartz 9000 0w30.
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      11-26-2013, 12:02 AM   #8
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I switched to M1 0W-40 and I live in AZ where its always warm/hot. No issues so far.
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      11-26-2013, 06:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
False. BMW has now said it is okay to use LL-01 oils, meaning you could run something like Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol Edge 0w40. Those would be noticeably better for ultra-cold starts. Nod goes to M1 for its ultra high viscosity index of 185, but in Canada it's expensive. You could also consider Red Line 0w40.
The price difference b/t the "European Formula" Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 is minimal (about $1 per litre). Is the Mobil 1 the superior option between the two?

Thanks again for everyone's input
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      11-26-2013, 08:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
The price difference b/t the "European Formula" Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 is minimal (about $1 per litre). Is the Mobil 1 the superior option between the two?

Thanks again for everyone's input

Yes, the M1 is the superior oil.
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      11-26-2013, 10:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
The price difference b/t the "European Formula" Mobil 1 and Castrol 0w40 is minimal (about $1 per litre). Is the Mobil 1 the superior option between the two?
Only Castrol Edge 5W30 is LL01 approved. This very same oil used to be marketed as "Castrol Syntec 0W30". Castrol may market this oil differently in Canada, just look for LL01 approval.

Personally, I've had better luck with Castrol 5W30 than M1 0W40 on my E46 -- the engine ran quieter and oil analysis showed less wear. Viscosity wise, they're very similar -- Castrol is a thick 30 when hot and M1 is thick 0 when cold.
At the end of day they're both great oils with many miles on them.
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      11-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rostasteve View Post
Only Castrol Edge 5W30 is LL01 approved. This very same oil used to be marketed as "Castrol Syntec 0W30". Castrol may market this oil differently in Canada, just look for LL01 approval.

Personally, I've had better luck with Castrol 5W30 than M1 0W40 on my E46 -- the engine ran quieter and oil analysis showed less wear. Viscosity wise, they're very similar -- Castrol is a thick 30 when hot and M1 is thick 0 when cold.
At the end of day they're both great oils with many miles on them.

Incorrect. There are several Castrol Syntec/Edge oils that carry LL-01, which you can verify on the Castrol datasheets:

0w30
5w40
0w40


The Edge 5w30 you refer to is NOT LL-01. It is LL-04 and is targeted at diesels. Do not confuse off-the-shelf Edge with Edge Professional, which is an OEM product only available at dealers (i.e. Castrol Edge Professional TWS, Professional OE, Professional Long-Life, etc).
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      11-26-2013, 12:57 PM   #13
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Anybody who made the switch to 0W40 notice less "lurching" at low speed (1st/2nd gear) when the car is cold? I noticed a significant reduction when switching from 10W60.
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      11-27-2013, 06:49 PM   #14
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I drive with 10-60 and don't have any issues with cold starts.

I always let it idle for at least a couple of minutes in sub-zero temps regardless of what the manual says in order to make sure oil gets distributed around properly.

I try not to rev it past 3k rpm until the temps reach 90C - takes about 10-15 mins of driving.

Oil change intervals 6-7.5k KM.

Last edited by bde; 11-28-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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      11-27-2013, 08:46 PM   #15
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Question for those using an oil other than 10w-60, what are you using for oil change intervals?
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      11-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #16
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Question for those using an oil other than 10w-60, what are you using for oil change intervals?

Only way to determine a good interval is to try 5k and pay for an oil analysis with TBN + TAN.

Some members have settled on 5k, some on 7.5k, others on 10k. It just depends on your driving habits and driving style. A person making a lot of short trips needs the shorter interval, but a person who is on the highway most of the time can go to 7.5k and beyond very easily.
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