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      02-07-2012, 09:12 AM   #1
drburton
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To Lie or Not to Lie

So for those of you who track your car but are still under warranty, do you tell the dealer?

Generally I live my life with the honesty policy and it serves me well, but I'm not sure about this one. A little afraid as soon as you admit going to the track they won't cover any of the service (especially brakes).

Seems to me that given the M3 is made for the track they should at least cover one brake change (new rotors and pads).

I'm guessing that this may be somewhat dependent on the dealer, but mine specifically asks almost everytime i go in, 'Do you track the car?'

Please post experiences.
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      02-07-2012, 09:22 AM   #2
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Here you go.....direct text from page 55 of the supplemental manual...............Phil

Driving on a race track

BMW recommends the following measures
before driving on a race track:
> Participate in a BMW driver training course
> Have the vehicle checked by your BMW
center
Operation on race tracks results in a
higher rate of wear. The BMW M3 is not
designed for use in competitive motor sports.
This wear is not covered by the vehicle warranty
The series brake pads and wear indicator are
not designed for operation on a race track. Your
BMW center will be glad to advise you.

So are participating in competitive events.....if not here's your answer.
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      02-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #3
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Really I think in may case at least it depends on your relationship with you SA more than the dealership.
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      02-07-2012, 11:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
Here you go.....direct text from page 55 of the supplemental manual...............Phil

Driving on a race track

BMW recommends the following measures
before driving on a race track:
> Participate in a BMW driver training course
> Have the vehicle checked by your BMW
center
Operation on race tracks results in a
higher rate of wear. The BMW M3 is not
designed for use in competitive motor sports.
This wear is not covered by the vehicle warranty
The series brake pads and wear indicator are
not designed for operation on a race track. Your
BMW center will be glad to advise you.

So are participating in competitive events.....if not here's your answer.
HPDS / HPDE events are not competitive, so by the definition of the manual, it is fine.
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      02-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #5
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This is a case by case thing. My SA was cool. Things will be (actually "were" now ) fixed and maintained under warranty/ultimate service as long as they met the BMW service length criteria. Anything else had to be paid for. I got two sets of front brakes out of this. They even swapped race brake fluid for me as long as I provided the juice. They said they liked seeing the car being used for how it was designed, and see what effect it had. Up to 48K, they said the car looked in great shape. They hated servicing "main street cruiser M3's" (I can say this safely in the track section, right?) that just roll around for pose value with the occasional stop light derby with borevettes...

If your dealer doesn't want to "play", hopefully there is one close by that will want the business. It all depends how much crap one's predecessor track-rats dealt with the SA. If they consistently lied about how the car was used to weasel out of covering abuse costs when it clear that it was tracked, the SA will be less inclined to help because they don't want a hard time. Like anything else, if you get them on your side, they are more likely to help. I didn't explicitly tell the dealership (i.e. I didn't roll in with vinly numbers on the door!), but when they spotted the rubber skid marks they asked...and then had a good chat about tracking the car and how it performs. This led to the "talk" - the M3 equivalent of the "birds and the bees" between owner and SA!
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      02-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
This is a case by case thing.
This is true. It is better to ask your local track rats where and which SA they use to service their cars. The SA taking care of me had a E36 M3 race car, and he was pushing me to get a full akro exhaust...
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      02-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #7
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If you have not made friends with the Service Manager at the BMW Dealer that you purchased your car from, you may consider doing this pdq. He can be a super asset to your receiving any kind of service to your car. The SA should be included in this loop also. I frequently invite both to visit the track while I am at a HPDE event, and take them for a ride. Beiing nice to the little people will go a long way.
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      02-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
If you have not made friends with the Service Manager at the BMW Dealer that you purchased your car from, you may consider doing this pdq. He can be a super asset to your receiving any kind of service to your car. The SA should be included in this loop also. I frequently invite both to visit the track while I am at a HPDE event, and take them for a ride. Beiing nice to the little people will go a long way.
vz
+1.I send them video's of the ontrack activities from my car The operations manager used to help us with our race car when my co-drivers rolled it into a ball and our next race was the next weekend!
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      02-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
If you have not made friends with the Service Manager at the BMW Dealer that you purchased your car from, you may consider doing this pdq. He can be a super asset to your receiving any kind of service to your car. The SA should be included in this loop also. I frequently invite both to visit the track while I am at a HPDE event, and take them for a ride. Beiing nice to the little people will go a long way.
vz
One of the advantages of being an instructor...the other one being driving Ferraris and Continental GTs from time to time...

The downside being ocassionally strapped in beside a lunatic novice in a "home modified" 1998 M3 for 80 minutes over the period of a day.
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      02-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
The downside being ocassionally strapped in beside a lunatic novice in a "home modified" 1998 M3 for 80 minutes over the period of a day.
Been there - Done that.

Good idea re incar videos. I think I will do that next time the M3 is at the track. I have a bunch of them, but up to date would be nice, particularly if there is snow on the ground....
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      02-07-2012, 03:27 PM   #11
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Last time I was at a local dealer (for standard oil change), the SA points to the power steering fluid container being wrapped w/ a rag & zip-tied and goes "been tracking, eh?" To which I said, "so?" Then, we started talking shop about our track experiences, lulz.
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      02-07-2012, 06:00 PM   #12
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My dealer was also cool about tracking - I once dropped off the car for a brake job with worn down track pads, and the dealer replaced them with fresh stock pads at no cost on my assurance that old stock pads were done when I put track pads in (to be fair, the mileage was due for pads). But who knows what they are going to say if you need a new engine or transmission... Good thing is that these cars are solid, so anything major is very unlikely (these forums have MUCH fewer major issues discussed compared to other car forums)
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      02-07-2012, 06:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
HPDS / HPDE events are not competitive, so by the definition of the manual, it is fine.
+1

Also from the warranty manual:

"This warranty shall be null and void if... ...the vehicle has been used for racing, timed or lapped, or used in any other competitive event."

So I agree, HPDE and non-competitive track days, in principle, should not void the warranty.

I once had an experience with a SA to which I admitted that I tracked the car (my previous E46) in non-competitive events. He recommended that I keep it to myself. He said the dealership could give me trouble in honouring the warranty if the word went around... so now I simply don't mention it anymore .

Further, there is so much turn over in the SAs around here that it's impossible to build a relationship...

Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-07-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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      02-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #14
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don't tell them! my dealer asks me casually "ow wow m3, so do your track it" .. "f*k no"
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      02-07-2012, 06:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
HPDS / HPDE events are not competitive, so by the definition of the manual, it is fine.
+2.......and as others have stated, your relationship with your Servive Manager and S/A are critical. Time to work on your relationship building skills .........Phil
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      02-07-2012, 07:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
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+2.......and as others have stated, your relationship with your Servive Manager and S/A are critical. Time to work on your relationship building skills .........Phil
Yep, +1.

I'm honest and upfront, take no BS from them nor do I give them any in return. It's something you work at, a relationship that gets built over time.

Needless to say, it can also end abruptly - say if it becomes their job vs. your pleasure - so be prepared for that as well.
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      02-07-2012, 07:18 PM   #17
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Need to separate warranty and maintenance. Tracking the car won't (or shouldn't) void the warranty, but no one should expect BMW / dealer to pay for pads or rotors or anything.

What about modifications? That's another hot spot. If you have a BBK or exhaust, and track your car, what happens to your warranty? Let's say you have a BBK, and you ended up with some suspension issues. Can the dealer say "this suspension failure is due to increased stress caused by BBK in track environment" ?
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      02-07-2012, 07:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
Need to separate warranty and maintenance. Tracking the car won't (or shouldn't) void the warranty, but no one should expect BMW / dealer to pay for pads or rotors or anything.

What about modifications? That's another hot spot. If you have a BBK or exhaust, and track your car, what happens to your warranty? Let's say you have a BBK, and you ended up with some suspension issues. Can the dealer say "this suspension failure is due to increased stress caused by BBK in track environment" ?
That's when the BMW paid tech turns up and gives you an opinion...which would be the suspension is designed to last 150K and I see no signs of manufacturing defect....
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      02-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
What about modifications? That's another hot spot. If you have a BBK or exhaust, and track your car, what happens to your warranty? Let's say you have a BBK, and you ended up with some suspension issues. Can the dealer say "this suspension failure is due to increased stress caused by BBK in track environment" ?
For example, my car had a manual transmission failure in normal driving, so BMW replaced it under warranty. Now I'm afraid to install a SSK, not knowing what caused the failure or how BMW would potentially react to another one.

I would not hesitate to install things like BBK, muffler, speakers, etc. I would hesitate to install power pulleys, ECU software, cat-delete mods or anything that messes around with the engine's or drivetrain's function.

There is of course a significant grey area, which where your relationship with the dealer comes in.
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      02-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #20
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Anytime you add mods, you flirt with warranty issues. While the car is the Ultimate Driving Machine, that is not a license to change configs. Depending upon what you change, or modify, your service against warranty can be effected.
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      02-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
Last time I was at a local dealer (for standard oil change), the SA points to the power steering fluid container being wrapped w/ a rag & zip-tied and goes "been tracking, eh?" To which I said, "so?" Then, we started talking shop about our track experiences, lulz.
I put old socks on them just for street use on all my cars. I hate having that film of PS fluid collecting dirt all over...

As for the original question... occasional track days seem fine, but if you're tracking it once a month, I think you should change the brakes yourself or be completely up front with your SA.
Dunno about this car yet but on my E39 and E36 the stock brake pads were never up to track days so I'd swap them out for the weekend anyway.
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      02-13-2012, 01:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3
Last time I was at a local dealer (for standard oil change), the SA points to the power steering fluid container being wrapped w/ a rag & zip-tied and goes "been tracking, eh?" To which I said, "so?" Then, we started talking shop about our track experiences, lulz.
Lol u are a bad influence hahahhaha
Most dealer are ok with tracking your car.. There only worried about abusing it... Like 30 launches on with dtc, burn outs bouncing off rev limiter stuff like that.... Tuning dme will defenitly void warranty fyi
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