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      01-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #1
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Engine malfunction - dead mice...

Brought my car (08 E90 M3) in for the 1st service yesterday. Picked up the car last night. And this morning my car had the engine malfunction (with reduced power among bunch of other failure warnings). So brought it in today (to Town & Country) again. Few hours later the tech called and said they found a dead mice in the engine bay and it is now not a warrantable job.

It seems super odd that I'd have the engine malfunction the day after my car was in service (where they supposedly checked everything?!)...

I'm going to give BMW NA a call but thought I'll post it here for any advice (contact people may have here).

Thanks!
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      01-25-2012, 04:36 PM   #2
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Really sorry to hear that - hope you can resolve it relatively heartache free!
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      01-25-2012, 05:15 PM   #3
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Did they at least tell you what was damaged in the engine, and how it was the result of a dead mouse?
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      01-25-2012, 05:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNivek View Post
It seems super odd that I'd have the engine malfunction the day after my car was in service (where they supposedly checked everything?!)...

I'm going to give BMW NA a call but thought I'll post it here for any advice (contact people may have here).

Thanks!
Kevin
It would depend on what your car was in service for and what the issue with the car is now.
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      01-25-2012, 05:49 PM   #5
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It was in for the 40,000 KM service (tune up), the 1st one I had. The only thing that showed up prior to this service light was increased emission (about 2 weeks ago) However, T&C couldn't find anything for the increased emission. The tech said it was triggered only once and the recommendation was simply to reset it. The service itself was routine and the comment I see on the work order was that they topped up the fluids etc.

As for the engine malfunction. There is no further information as T&C stopped working on my car the minute they saw the dead mouse.

So for one, I don't think anyone involved are qualified to determine the time of death for the mouse. And two, if the mouse has been dead for a while, the issue should have surfaced sooner since a dead mouse cannot really chew wires (which is what they suspect to be the cause of the issue).
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      01-25-2012, 07:48 PM   #6
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Sorry to hear about your problems. Mice, that's $#@!ed up.

T & C suck for service in the first place, see if you can have the car taken to a different dealer. I mean did you put the Mice in there no I don't think so.

If BMW can't make the cars major components tight enough to keep out hazards such as Mice & Squirrels alike then they should fix it N/C.
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      01-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #7
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I think I'll throw my cats in the garage for a few days.......


That's messed up OP, sorry to read about it.
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      01-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell325 View Post
I think I'll throw my cats in the garage for a few days.......


That's messed up OP, sorry to read about it.
Clearly he was running catless......

Sucks Kevin - hope you get everything sorted out
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      01-25-2012, 08:54 PM   #9
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Clearly he was running catless......


That made me chuckle!
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      01-25-2012, 08:59 PM   #10
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Dead mice... That dealer is full of sh!t. Now I've truly heard everything. Some of these dealers don't wanna warranty sh!t on these cars.
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      01-26-2012, 12:00 AM   #11
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Catless. That's a nice one. : ) I'll give an update tomorrow on how it goes.
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      01-26-2012, 12:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNivek View Post

As for the engine malfunction. There is no further information as T&C stopped working on my car the minute they saw the dead mouse.

So for one, I don't think anyone involved are qualified to determine the time of death for the mouse. And two, if the mouse has been dead for a while, the issue should have surfaced sooner since a dead mouse cannot really chew wires (which is what they suspect to be the cause of the issue).
You definitely forsaw the point i wanted to make. Just because there is a dead mouse in the engine bay, they can't automatically prove when/where it happened, and unless they diagnose the problem, they can't automatically conclude it was the mouse's fault. Did they tell you where the mouse was in the engine bay? I can understand their position if it was found it some where in the intake or found dead by the ECU with chewed wiring everywhere, but that point it would be a question as to when the mouse got into the car (during service or at home).
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      01-26-2012, 12:06 AM   #13
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Good luck!!
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      01-26-2012, 01:50 AM   #14
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Good luck with the dealer, keep us posted on what happens. If the dealer doesn't want to warranty the car, would this be an insurance claim?

I've always used Budd's (even though I have to drive out ~30km) They have treated me with respect and curtosy.

I've only seen a squirrel in the intake manifold of a Mazda 3. The squirrel wasn't happy when the car started up.
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      01-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNivek View Post
Brought my car (08 E90 M3) in for the 1st service yesterday. Picked up the car last night. And this morning my car had the engine malfunction (with reduced power among bunch of other failure warnings). So brought it in today (to Town & Country) again. Few hours later the tech called and said they found a dead mice in the engine bay and it is now not a warrantable job.

It seems super odd that I'd have the engine malfunction the day after my car was in service (where they supposedly checked everything?!)...

I'm going to give BMW NA a call but thought I'll post it here for any advice (contact people may have here).

Thanks!
Kevin
So, did they explain what the dead mouse ate?

Did you see signs of the mice chewing the under hood insulation? *Usually* when we find dead mice in there, they either have chewed a bunch of insulation and nestled in the liner or rest somewhere in the engine bay...but mice making dinner out of your electrical system is clearly evident.
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      01-26-2012, 04:29 PM   #16
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deadmau5 rocks... jokes aside. I am disappointed to hear this. Have you tried other dealers (BuddsBMW/BMWMississauga). I cannot accept this response especially with such low kms. You have CPO too right?
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      01-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #17
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deadmau5 rocks... jokes aside. I am disappointed to hear this. Have you tried other dealers (BuddsBMW/BMWMississauga). I cannot accept this response especially with such low kms. You have CPO too right?
I got the car new in 08. Just it was the 1st service inspection. In the 3 years, I've only had to do oil and brake fluid changes. So make me wonder just what they did in the service inspection... since the day after that... my car had the engine malfunction. And how thorough was that inspection if they didn't see the mouse. (and if it wasn't there... sort of prove another point)

Thanks for all the thoughts guys. Spoke with T&C and they're now looking to see just what is the cause of the engine malfunction and if there is any evidence the mouse (dead or alive) had anything to do with it. They had simply stopped working on the car when they saw the dead mouse under the engine cover. Stay tuned...

Last edited by UNivek; 01-26-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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      01-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #18
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First - they need to prove that the mouse caused the damage. This is the law.

Second - is it possible that the mouse crawled into the engine while it was in their possession for the 1st service? Then they are liable if it happened on their property

I haven't heard a single good thing about T&C and I always get talked down to when I go by there

Budds is even worse - I think they have the most horror stories posted of any dealer

I drive 2 hrs each way to go to Endras. Nothing but exceptional service there!
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      01-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #19
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if u need a 2nd opinion try Techmax Auto. I've been using him for 8 yrs ...
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      01-27-2012, 02:24 PM   #20
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ok.. so i cracked open the service & warranty guide and also I checked around too.. Well it appears that wear / tear from "environmental influences" is not covered by factory or CPO Warranty. I will be really surprised to hear if they did comp you on this. Having said that, I also checked with my insurance company. They would cover it under "Peril" or "Comprehensive", simply pay the deductible. Now once they learn the cost of the engine, they might just payout or fix it.
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      01-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
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ok.. so i cracked open the service & warranty guide and also I checked around too.. Well it appears that wear / tear from "environmental influences" is not covered by factory or CPO Warranty. I will be really surprised to hear if they did comp you on this. Having said that, I also checked with my insurance company. They would cover it under "Peril" or "Comprehensive", simply pay the deductible. Now once they learn the cost of the engine, they might just payout or fix it.
Thanks, I wanted to check my service manual too. For the check list of service performed for a "vehicle inspection" as that was the service they did the day before the incident.

Either way, my car is fixed and ready to be picked up! No charge. After T&C finally got around to actually determine the root cause of the engine malfunction. They found out the mice (turned out to be two) had nothing to do with the issue. It ended up being just an O2 sensor!

The worst part of it all was the service manager actually said to me (before they checked for the root cause) that even if the mice got in the car while my car was in the shop. They can't be held liable! Which I obviously didn't agree and can't believe it came out of his mouth. And I told him I'd be speaking with his GM/owner and BMW Canada if that's the case...

I'm definitely going to give them a few comments on the service feedback which ironically is in my inbox for the 1st check up.

Well, I'm glad I didn't have to go through any more of this as this was the best outcome. (dead mouse was not a factor of engine malfunction)

So can't wait to go pick up the car and enjoy some driving! And thanks for all the suggestions and support! You guys are the best! : ) Now if we only own a dealership! Now that's a business idea!

p.s. a side observation - you can tell I'm much more relaxed now... they gave me a 328 xi loaner... although it has AWD... I feel my M3 (with winter) is way better driving in today's weather. I'm sure much has to do with fact the loaner only had four season tires. But I was still a little surprised as my Audi TT was much much better in snow compared to this 328 xi.
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      01-27-2012, 03:04 PM   #22
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Either way, my car is fixed and ready to be picked up!
Excellent man...I am happy for you. Your off to a gr8 weekend. Please dont go back to that dealer and take the risk again.
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