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      01-23-2012, 09:51 AM   #67
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Somewhere in (recent) prehistory, BMW produced this one, way before any //M car...



And this is a nice read as well for people who think turbo is something new and NA is the way to go. DISCLAIMER: My favourite car atm is a Ferrari 458 and my greatest car of all time is a McLaren F1 LM, both NA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT52
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      01-25-2012, 12:03 PM   #68
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Don't know what all the complaining is about. Turbos are a blast to drive, sound awesome, and are extremely fuel efficient if you keep your foot out of the boost. Show me an NA where you can increase the power output by 20% with a $500 chip too.
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      01-25-2012, 03:30 PM   #69
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I've owned two NA 3 series before my current 335i, and the N54 engine'd 335i is by FAR the most fun car I have driven from BMW. I love the torque! I've driven the E92 M3 about 3 times now, and each time it has not impressed me more than the 335i. I dont track my car, so the M3 seems pointless in my case.
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      02-06-2012, 12:12 PM   #70
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Why so against turbo engines? I've owned 7 BMW's now, and the N54 and N55 engines on the current models are phenomenal. They far surpass the performance of the older NA engines. The bi-turbo design makes turbo lag practically non existent. I get very strong torque with my N55, 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds, and still get the smooth response and highway fuel mileage expected from a 6 cylinder. Plus, tuning turbos is SO much more efficient than trying to tune an NA engine. My last car was a 2009 335i coupe and for about $1800 I added 80 HP to my engine just by using The Dinan stage 2 turbo kit, all through my local BMW dealership preserving my warranty. You can't add that kind of performance to an NA engine for that little money, so I'll take my turbo engine any day...
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      02-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel4865 View Post
Why so against turbo engines? I've owned 7 BMW's now, and the N54 and N55 engines on the current models are phenomenal. They far surpass the performance of the older NA engines. The bi-turbo design makes turbo lag practically non existent. I get very strong torque with my N55, 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds, and still get the smooth response and highway fuel mileage expected from a 6 cylinder. Plus, tuning turbos is SO much more efficient than trying to tune an NA engine. My last car was a 2009 335i coupe and for about $1800 I added 80 HP to my engine just by using The Dinan stage 2 turbo kit, all through my local BMW dealership preserving my warranty. You can't add that kind of performance to an NA engine for that little money, so I'll take my turbo engine any day...
I added 40 HP for around $1200
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      02-06-2012, 01:21 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
it's Mercedes here i come.Oh and a 4 cylinder 328 with Turbo??What the hell is that
You know MB is moving to turbos now don't you?
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      02-07-2012, 03:04 AM   #73
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The title of this thread should be "Why is the Obama administration forcing turbos on us all?"

Jus' a little somethin' to think about when you go to the polls this fall.
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      02-07-2012, 04:25 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
The title of this thread should be "Why is the Obama administration forcing turbos on us all?"

Jus' a little somethin' to think about when you go to the polls this fall.


yes and they are responsible for the king size snickers bar now being 2 pieces
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      02-07-2012, 04:35 AM   #75
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Next C 55 AMG is to get a NA 5.5l V8 making close to 500 PS.
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      02-07-2012, 06:45 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
The title of this thread should be "Why is the Obama administration forcing turbos on us all?"

Jus' a little somethin' to think about when you go to the polls this fall.
+1
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      02-07-2012, 10:23 AM   #77
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don't know where this hate and problem with turbo cars is coming from?

They offer a fantastic combination of down low TQ, fuel efficiency and awesome daily driving qualities. Mercedes is doing the same thing with almost all of its motors including the larger ones as well as Audi although they seem to be going the supercharger route. Take for example the Lexus GS350 where Toyota decided it would be a great idea to keep an NA V6 motor in a luxury sedan... so now you have a 3750 LB car with a 306 hp motor and 280 LB-ft of TQ... go drive that and tell me how enjoyable the car is around town and how great the fuel efficiency on this car is, I doubt you will be impressed. It is possible to create a fantastic NA motor although this is rare in a daily driven car due to the costs associated with it and the fuel efficiency issue. I have never been impressed with any NA 6 after driving even turbo 4 cars; the closest thing ever was the S54 motor and that was in an M car, although that engine was expensive to build, expensive to maintain and didn't have great fuel efficiency. Just something to think about...
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      02-07-2012, 05:57 PM   #78
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Flat torque curves all the way man, turbos are way more fun to drive, the pull is fantastic.

The only thing I like about NA is how raw the engine sounds at the high RPM.
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      02-11-2012, 06:56 PM   #79
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C'mon....

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerxq View Post
No Just make Put more effort into making NA engines.
Porsche, there is no substitute, why... Cuz they have used the same platform for 40 years and simply tweak the underpinnings every time they release a 'new model'. I hear you but the majority of the manufacturers are in fact doing forced induction and quite frankly it's about time. When Nissan and Subaru (shoot even Mazda) have caught up to you on the track due to turbo charging, it's time to rethink your approach.
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      02-11-2012, 06:59 PM   #80
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Wtf does Obama have to do with this discussion, oh yeah, more power and better fuel economy, my bad, thanks for the compliment.
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      02-11-2012, 07:00 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman12 View Post
Porsche, there is no substitute, why... Cuz they have used the same platform for 40 years and simply tweak the underpinnings every time they release a 'new model'. I hear you but the majority of the manufacturers are in fact doing forced induction and quite frankly it's about time. When Nissan and Subaru (shoot even Mazda) have caught up to you on the track due to turbo charging, it's time to rethink your approach.
True but they haven't caught up to Porsche yet even with turbo charging. Its not all about speed but handling. Turbos don't make a car better for the track.
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      02-11-2012, 07:38 PM   #82
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BMW is trying to be become obsolete while staying close to tradition. Since all the focus is on fuel eco turbos are the best way to have a smaller less trusty engine while keeping the same power.
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      02-11-2012, 07:52 PM   #83
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I'm a fan of turbos and I think most of the people in here are as well, but I too find it to be the easy way out for a manufacturer. With that said, I'm waiting for them to drop the n52 in the x3 so I could get it for my wife. Turbos and suv's are the best match... With just a jb1, I got my x5 35i to get it in the high 13's and it towed better than my 10 tundra w 5.7 and tow pack. That n55 was a beast
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      02-11-2012, 08:45 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnnerdboy View Post
I'm a fan of turbos and I think most of the people in here are as well, but I too find it to be the easy way out for a manufacturer. With that said, I'm waiting for them to drop the n52 in the x3 so I could get it for my wife. Turbos and suv's are the best match... With just a jb1, I got my x5 35i to get it in the high 13's and it towed better than my 10 tundra w 5.7 and tow pack. That n55 was a beast
+1 that is what I've been saying... that its an easy way out for manufacturers.
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      02-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
The title of this thread should be "Why is the Obama administration forcing turbos on us all?"

Jus' a little somethin' to think about when you go to the polls this fall.
+2

I F$*&@$ hate turbos. My 06 Mini was supercharged, my current mini is turbod and i HATE it. It is very laggy and un responsive and i really hate the stupid Japanese tuner blowoff (i have an intake and cant get around it) Granted i know i cant compare mini engines with BMW engines but the concept is the same.

I miss the supercharger wine and the instant response they provide. The fact that superchargers arnt efficient and terrible on fuel economy is bull shit now. We have a new 2012 audi A6 3.0t producing 300 HP. On the highway we get 32mpg in a car that weighs 3400 lbs. It is one incredible car and the engine is what makes the car, next to the handling It drives like a NA engine and if you didnt know the specs on the car you would never assume it was S/Ced the only thing is at redline there is zero supercharger whine

Eaton has come out with a way to reduce the parasitic draw next to nothing when its not under load and your just cruising. When you hit the throttle the supercharger engages. So its BS now that supers cant be a contender. I would buy an audi if they didnt do away with a manual and the refresh is hideous on the s5's.

Besides, i love the way the new F30's look and i love that BMW confirmed manuals though 2014 in NA, cant wait for the release of the coupe i am certainly not happy that they are turboed but im hoping a turbo engine in a BMW is far supior then that in a mini, i doubt it though
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      02-12-2012, 12:38 PM   #86
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turbos are the way of the future,
the way of the future, the way of the future, the-way-of-the-future, the-way-of-the-future,the-way-of-the-future, the-way-of-the-future, thewayofthefuture, theway of thefuture.
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      02-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PedalMINI View Post
+2

I F$*&@$ hate turbos. My 06 Mini was supercharged, my current mini is turbod and i HATE it. It is very laggy and un responsive and i really hate the stupid Japanese tuner blowoff (i have an intake and cant get around it) Granted i know i cant compare mini engines with BMW engines but the concept is the same.
Perhaps you should've done more research on the turbo kit that you purchased for your Mini. Turbo size is just one aspect that can affect lag, and it seems you chose the wrong size for your needs. My n54 powered 135i has virtually no lag whatsoever compared to my previous turbo car (Evo 9). It offers a far more useful powerband for daily driving compared to the gutless NA engines that BMW offers today.
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      02-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerxq View Post
I added 40 HP for around $1200
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is at the crank, not at the wheels.

Try this on for size (I am number 4037):

Name:  Cobb stage 2+.jpg
Views: 121
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I spent $1800 total (I could've spent less if I wanted to) for 3 mods done to the car and got those times at the drag strip whereas when I was stock I did 13.6@102mph. Try doing that naturally aspirated in your BMW motor.
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