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      01-21-2012, 09:29 PM   #1
gunnerxq
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Why does the Obama administration force turbos on us?

With the new 3 series coming out you don"t have a choice for a NA engine. They say its for fuel economy but is it really that? Or just an easy way to increase Hp without making the engine seem too big? The same goes with the next Generation M3 why will it need to be turbocharged? Why don't they go the way Porsche went? I know they are completely different car companies with different cars and Engines but I'll let the video do the talking.


I mean come on it's a flat six and look what they managed to produce from it. Step it up BMW!
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Last edited by gunnerxq; 02-07-2012 at 07:49 AM. Reason: Same thread just re-named it
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      01-21-2012, 09:45 PM   #2
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$116650 911 2dr Cpe GT3
2-Door Rear Wheel Drive Car, 415 bhp, 300 lb-ft, 6-sp Manual, 15/22 mpg
2 passengers, 3075 lb, 3.8-liter, flat-6 engine, 7.4 lb/bhp

You want BMW to match that price too?
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      01-21-2012, 09:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbracing View Post
$116650 911 2dr Cpe GT3
2-Door Rear Wheel Drive Car, 415 bhp, 300 lb-ft, 6-sp Manual, 15/22 mpg
2 passengers, 3075 lb, 3.8-liter, flat-6 engine, 7.4 lb/bhp

You want BMW to match that price too?
No Just make Put more effort into making NA engines.
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      01-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #4
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Blame the strict modern fuel economy and emission standards, not BMW.

Of course BMW knows how to make NA engines. They basically maxed out the 3.2L I6 with the S54.
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      01-21-2012, 09:56 PM   #5
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^yep. Emissions standards. Turbos maximize the power that we all want while still passing increasingly strict emissions.
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      01-21-2012, 09:57 PM   #6
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I personally love turbos (and FI in general). Flat torque curves, easily tunable, good gas mileage if you can keep your foot out of it, and less lossy at altitude. In fact, living at 6,500 feet, I'll never buy another NA car.

-Rich
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      01-21-2012, 10:12 PM   #7
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you know Porsche makes a turbo also right? and a turbo S. and a gt2 which is turbo.
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      01-21-2012, 10:20 PM   #8
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daily driver, turbo
track toy, N/A

i love the way an N/A feels and prefer it over a turbo.
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      01-21-2012, 10:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpike View Post
I personally love turbos (and FI in general). Flat torque curves, easily tunable, good gas mileage if you can keep your foot out of it, and less lossy at altitude. In fact, living at 6,500 feet, I'll never buy another NA car.

-Rich
+1
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      01-21-2012, 10:30 PM   #10
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Turbo is the only way to go...IMHO more potential to produce power.
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      01-21-2012, 10:33 PM   #11
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I prefer the muscle grunt of a V8. Put that in a 3 series and now we're talkin. And no the M3's V8 doesn't count. Never heard of a V8 with such little torque.
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      01-21-2012, 10:37 PM   #12
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they aren't forcing you to buy it...
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      01-21-2012, 10:41 PM   #13
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Looks like turbos are the wave of the future

Even Ford is starting do them. It about power and fuel economy.
Of course what you save in fuel economy will go to a rebuilt turbo at some point.
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      01-21-2012, 10:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelalex17 View Post
you know Porsche makes a turbo also right? and a turbo S. and a gt2 which is turbo.
Yes who doesn't
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      01-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudebwoi View Post
they aren't forcing you to buy it...
A lot of car companies are going toward this direction.
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      01-21-2012, 11:01 PM   #16
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5 bimmers and this is the last..Forced Turbo is exactly the way I also feel and couple that with forced upon run-flats it's Mercedes here i come.Oh and a 4 cylinder 328 with Turbo??What the hell is that.Good posting dude at least i'm not alone.
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      01-21-2012, 11:05 PM   #17
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^^^ Buh bye!
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      01-21-2012, 11:10 PM   #18
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I was at the Detroit auto show today with some friends and I can say, this E9X generation is the newest gen I will ever buy for the 3 series. I like the interior on the new F30, but you can't get a NA straight six, a manual is no longer standard, and you have to pay $300 for power steering over electrical steering. BMW is losing it's root and why we people here buy them (some of us). The new F30 may stomp the competition but they have lost me.

And for those that plan to get an F30, it has regular cup holders for the first time.
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      01-21-2012, 11:15 PM   #19
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Uh because turbos are more efficient?

why make an engine that makes less HP, doesnt make HP or TQ as quickly as turbos, and uses more gas?

Boost is fun. N/a motors have less potential. Its almost impossible to gain the HP in what a tune can do for a turbo car even with FBO (N/A).
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      01-21-2012, 11:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerCop View Post
^^^ Buh bye!
Seriously you don't need to get sarcastic about it..Do you build Bimmers??Do you work for BMW??No and No so take a chill pill fan boy and let other people have their own opinion without acting like a 2 year old. BUH BYE!!!!!!
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      01-21-2012, 11:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Blame the strict modern fuel economy and emission standards, not BMW.
Sorry, that's just bull.

max emissions g/km
Mercedes C350 306HP 164
Mercedes C250 204HP 161
BMW N20 240HP 183
BMW 330i Euro 272HP 2008+ 173

So the N20 has higher emissions than both NA Mercedes 3.5L 306HP and BMWs 'own 3.0L.

A simple Camry V6 3.5L 268HP 2012 has better EPA fuel cost than both Audi 2.0T 211HP FWD and Mercedes C250 204HP . If it had direct injection and the ZF 8-sp. it would match the fuel costs of a N20.
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      01-21-2012, 11:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Sorry, that's just bull.

max emissions g/km
Mercedes C350 306HP 164
Mercedes C250 204HP 161
BMW N20 240HP 183
BMW 330i Euro 272HP 2008+;

So the N20 has higher emissions than both NA Mercedes 3.5L 306HP and BMWs 'own 3.0L.

A simple Camry V6 3.5L 268HP 2012 has better EPA fuel cost than both Audi 2.0T 211HP FWD and Mercedes C250 204HP . If it had direct injection and the ZF 8-sp. it would match the fuel costs of a N20.
you cant compare a camry to the audi. because they are made with different purposes. different weight, gear ratios, etc etc.

but people dont recognize how fast hp and tq peaks are reached with turbos.

N/a motors make their hp near Redline, or close. and their torque range should be in the mid rpms. Unlike turbo motors where (in 335 case) make its torque from 1400+Rpm and hp peaks around 5-5.5k RPM.

and these cars are not meant to be track cars so who cares about N/A being better at a track. There are plenty of turbo cars that do just as well on the track as N/A.

i feel like N/A people are only afraid of turbo lag, but times have changed and turbo lag is very minimal. If your worried about that just get anti-lag and have full boost all the time lmao
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