BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Strasse Wheels
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #1
NFAM3
Lieutenant
United_States
15
Rep
406
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

After Reading Most of e90 Failure

I didn't want to jack a thread so I'm just starting this little one. I'm not looking for another huge fight w/ anyone. I just have a little question. After reading the tail end of that thread, I noticed someone said that BMW can't keep up with the order of new engines b/c there have been so many failures. At least thats what I got out of a specific post. Does this mean the S85 is a POS motor? This is the first time I hear this on this board. Does it really have that many problems, even stock?
__________________
2011 BMW M3
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 09:24 PM   #2
Jaypod
Brigadier General
Jaypod's Avatar
No_Country
64
Rep
4,962
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (7)

I dont think that there is THAT many failures - but failures are inevitable. You have to remember M cars are only a small portion of BMW's overall sales so not as likely to have a warehouse full of them. A hole is the block is not going to be the only reason an engine will be replaced.
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 09:40 PM   #3
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts


 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
There are already a couple other threads in regards to this. No need to start yet another.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:03 PM   #4
NFAM3
Lieutenant
United_States
15
Rep
406
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Then I apologize. I did not search. I had just read that other thread. It was the first time I had heard something negative about our motors. Everyone always seems to worship the S85. It was just a different tune to me.

Mod, if you can, please lock this thread. We really don't need another one then. Again, my apologies.
__________________
2011 BMW M3
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:05 PM   #5
akh23456
All I do is Win... Eat Race Sleep
akh23456's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
2,123
Posts

 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philly

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 M3  [4.28]
2013 f10 M5  [0.00]
Just want to let you know i had to wait a Month for my rear bumper when someone ran into me. Just to give a time frame for other parts.
__________________

F10 M5: 11.308 131.96 with a 1.9 60ft Street Tires
E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:06 PM   #6
Jaypod
Brigadier General
Jaypod's Avatar
No_Country
64
Rep
4,962
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (7)

Its S65 BTW, S85 is the V10
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:07 PM   #7
w00tw00t
Lieutenant Colonel
w00tw00t's Avatar
United_States
37
Rep
1,721
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 AY M4
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Issaquah, WA

iTrader: (11)

s65 ... not s85 ... its is a rock solid motor - the thing to note is that usually the folks who have no issues, never post up - only a few who do blow up will most likely post up here... most of the blown stuff is either a money shift.. or seriously tracked and boosted..
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:29 PM   #8
NFAM3
Lieutenant
United_States
15
Rep
406
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (0)

Sorry. S65. I'm still new at this. I've only had it since June!!!
__________________
2011 BMW M3
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2012, 10:42 PM   #9
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
83
Rep
5,623
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
The S54 from the E46 M3 was shared with the Z4Ms...unlike the S65. The E9x is nearing the end of its production do I'm sure BMW has ramped down S65 production. I think these fears are overblown. The key ingredient of most of the failures is FI. Although there have been some NA failures...this is the rare exception. Consider how these cars are being beaten on...I meant driven.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 01:12 AM   #10
Edjay
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
351
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 AW, 76 2002
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sacoftomatoes Ca

iTrader: (0)

Imo the things that fails the most are the ones that are produced and stocked the most.
If its something that does not have high demand production is low. I feel if this motors are failing left and right production will be ramped up to meet demand.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 01:28 AM   #11
ES_TRADER
Colonel
68
Rep
2,696
Posts

 
Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [5.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [4.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [5.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
All I want to know is if my engine blows up too, is the dealer gonna blame it on my full akra evo and also say I fucked with the ecu because of the delete -r installation?

Becaus technically an exhaust a part of the engine so modified exhaust = modified engine?

I don't want to be stuck with a $25,000 bill
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 01:28 AM   #12
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

I doubt that BMW can't keep up with orders. with the production numbers of the M3 and the cost of the engine (approximately $25000) it is probably not an engine that would be kept in stock!

Actually, the lack of stock may be an indication that few failures are happening. I know that our warehouse at work only stocks parts that are used regularly. Parts that are rarely used are special ordered and not stocked.

My brother works in our supply chain division and he says that the main goal of the warehouse is to stock as low of a dollar amount of parts as possible while meeting demand and that all of our warehouses have a max dollar amount that they are supposed to not exceed. Since the S65 is so expensive, stocking any amount of those at a BMW warehouse would displace lots of commonly used items oil filters, wiper blades, fasteners, etc.

Were not really dealing with a $2000 small block chevy here.

To the OP, think about how many engine failures that have been posted on here compared to the amount of people that have had no trouble. I'd say the ratio is pretty good. Also, as for the clicking noise, no one seems to have a definitive answer to what it is. Some people have had new crankshafts and bearing installed and the noise comes back. Other people have kept on driving their cars and the noise either subsides or don't get ever get any worse.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 01-21-2012 at 01:33 AM.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 11:30 AM   #13
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Just to put in perspective, I have 27k miles on the car with about 30 track days in 2 years. My wife DD's the car and I average about 11.5 mpg over those 27k and not had a peep or whimper from this car, it rocks!
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #14
smmmurf
Colonel
32
Rep
2,113
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (7)

^^I agree. If you don't fuck with the car it will be reliable. Start heavily modding a finely-tuned, $25K, 12:1 compression motor and you are opening yourself up to issues.
__________________
M3 Sedan - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #15
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
3,497
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The S54 from the E46 M3 was shared with the Z4Ms...unlike the S65. The E9x is nearing the end of its production do I'm sure BMW has ramped down S65 production. I think these fears are overblown. The key ingredient of most of the failures is FI. Although there have been some NA failures...this is the rare exception. Consider how these cars are being beaten on...I meant driven.


I would add that if the supercharger is tuned correctly, running at the proper psi and running the proper octane, a failure is very unlikely as well.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 02:18 PM   #16
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post


I would add that if the supercharger is tuned correctly, running at the proper psi and running the proper octane, a failure is very unlikely as well.
+1 Given proper tuning, boost, and running an adequate octane rating a supercharged engine should be plenty reliable and a catastrophic failure should be highly unlikely.

A boosted engine most likely won't last quite as long as an engine running stock power levels, however, longevity will still be quite good and most likely in the hundreds of thousands of miles before needing a rebuild. This of course is providing that the maintenance intervals are adjusted to reflect the additional power levels!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #17
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
75
Rep
6,775
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post


I would add that if the supercharger is tuned correctly, running at the proper psi and running the proper octane, a failure is very unlikely as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
+1 Given proper tuning, boost, and running an adequate octane rating a supercharged engine should be plenty reliable and a catastrophic failure should be highly unlikely.

A boosted engine most likely won't last quite as long as an engine running stock power levels, however, longevity will still be quite good and most likely in the hundreds of thousands of miles before needing a rebuild. This of course is providing that the maintenance intervals are adjusted to reflect the additional power levels!
Speculation..speculation and more speculation..the only way to ensure longevity is to leave the engine in its original configuration...
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 02:41 PM   #18
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
BMRLVR's Avatar
Canada
39
Rep
2,332
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Speculation..speculation and more speculation..the only way to ensure longevity is to leave the engine in its original configuration...
Maybe you should re-read my post..... That is basically exactly what I said..... I stated that the engine longevity will not be that of an engine at OEM spec.

I am basing the longevity of an SC'ed car in the hundreds of thousands of miles based upon the robust construction of the block/bedplate assembly, the forged crankshaft, the bearing area of the crank and rod bearings, the excellent oiling system, robust valvetrain, etc. You can tell a lot of how strong an engine is just by the looking at the parts!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 02:52 PM   #19
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
3,497
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Maybe you should re-read my post..... That is basically exactly what I said..... I stated that the engine longevity will not be that of an engine at OEM spec.

I am basing the longevity of an SC'ed car in the hundreds of thousands of miles based upon the robust construction of the block/bedplate assembly, the forged crankshaft, the bearing area of the crank and rod bearings, the excellent oiling system, robust valvetrain, etc. You can tell a lot of how strong an engine is just by the looking at the parts!
Well said as always Jamie.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 03:09 PM   #20
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
3,497
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Speculation..speculation and more speculation..the only way to ensure longevity is to leave the engine in its original configuration...
Who would argue against your basic statement that leaving it stock would ensure longevity over heavily modified?

Based on what we currently know, I stated a FI failure is unlikely as long as you are adhering to the specifics I listed, it wasn't about longevity, how long are we talking here? ESS has had kits with 50 to near 100K miles on the stock motor and sold 350 supechargers worldwide with no documented failures, does that kind of info register with you, or were you not aware of it?
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #21
tibra1
Banned
No_Country
75
Rep
6,775
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Who would argue against your basic statement that leaving it stock would ensure longevity over heavily modified?

Based on what we currently know, I stated a FI failure is unlikely as long as you are adhering to the specifics I listed, it wasn't about longevity, how long are we talking here? ESS has had kits with 50 to near 100K miles no failures, sold 350 to date with no failures, does that kind of info register with you, or were you not aware of it?
Coming from another boosted car which was modded.. its a far cry taking an existing boosted platform and tweaking it..as opposed to taking an N/A application and boosting it from scratch

The stats for the number of SCs and engine failures or lack thereof, while interesting doesnt tell ANYTHING about whats going on inside these motors.

Until someone takes a factory N/A motor w/ X miles and a SC engine with equal mileage, opens them up and puts them side by side you will never truly no what boosting these engines really does to it.

As far as being able to just look and see..oh so and so engine component "looks" strong therefore its ok to boost..well..that is hubris..without real world empirical data, testing and tear-down inspection...its all speculation.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2012, 03:29 PM   #22
IMG
M.POWER
IMG's Avatar
104
Rep
7,065
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Maybe you should re-read my post..... That is basically exactly what I said..... I stated that the engine longevity will not be that of an engine at OEM spec.

I am basing the longevity of an SC'ed car in the hundreds of thousands of miles based upon the robust construction of the block/bedplate assembly, the forged crankshaft, the bearing area of the crank and rod bearings, the excellent oiling system, robust valvetrain, etc. You can tell a lot of how strong an engine is just by the looking at the parts!
+1
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST