BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-18-2012, 11:21 AM   #67
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 12,567
iTrader: (39)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
The tuners will always hide behind the fact that it is not their responsibility to let you know potential problems. That would be bad for marketing.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:40 AM   #68
US///M3
Banned
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.
There seems to be a higher rate of sc'ed s65 engine failure than stock s65,consider the small number of supercharged engines vs the vast majority of stock engines.
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:42 AM   #69
Kyoshi71
Colonel
 
Kyoshi71's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

Posts: 2,528
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101 View Post
I'm not a car expert but this is serious stuff. IMHO anyone who says that it is the fully the OP's fault since he is modifying his car might be partially correct but most of the blame needs to be put on AA. If all of these potential issues are not advertised then they are doing a disservice to the tuning community. We should not have to scour internet forums to find these types of potential issues. They need to be clearly advertised on their web-site with complete research write-ups of the causes, likelihood of failure, potential solutions and lessons learned. After looking at the AA web-site there is very little information on these kits.

Example: If we now know that no 5 has been causing issues than this should be stated with an estimate likelihood of potential failure.

But if what you are saying is true on their recommendations, then they will not be getting my business.
This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin. What exactly are you insinuating? That tuners need to publish legal disclaimers and turn their websites into goddamn CIALIS® commercials to make you feel comfortable?

Here's the bottom line for all...Don't mod your car if you know nothing about cars. You can't increase HP 50% on a stock motor and expect everything to be just like you drove it off the dealers lot forever. Problems are inevitable and if you have no understanding to recognize it, they're only compounded.

As for this cylinder 5 thing...Just like the bearing issue, I need more info before I accept this as fact.

The phrase of the day is an oldie but goodie....."Chrome don't get you home."
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Kyoshi71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #70
advanced101
Private
 
Drives: With the Force
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Houston

Posts: 82
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin.

As for this cylinder 5 thing...Just like the bearing issue, I need more info before I accept this as fact.
My statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
This is such bullshit I dont even know where to begin. What exactly are you insinuating? That tuners need to publish legal disclaimers and turn their websites into goddamn CIALIS® commercials to make you feel comfortable?
Hey now, people need to know how long their erection is suppose to last. Pretty important info IMHO

Last edited by advanced101; 01-18-2012 at 11:50 AM.
advanced101 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:45 AM   #71
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #72
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 12,567
iTrader: (39)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101 View Post
Haha, my statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?
Tuners are only out for themselves, so relying upon them for information like that would be completely foolish. They wouldn't sell parts if they told you that the mods would likely damage your engine.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #73
Kyoshi71
Colonel
 
Kyoshi71's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

Posts: 2,528
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101 View Post
Haha, my statement is bullshit but then you say need more info on these failures. Who has this information? The tuners?


Hey now, people need to know how long their erection is suppose to last. Pretty important info IMHO
The bullshit part was your request for more disclaimers. My point was that if you ever decide to go down the SC road, you have enough of a basic understanding about engines, namely our engine, to make an informed decision without disclaimers
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Kyoshi71 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 11:57 AM   #74
akh23456
All I do is Win... Eat Race Sleep
 
akh23456's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Jersey

Posts: 2,024
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 M3  [4.28]
2013 f10 M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.
+1 bro
__________________

F10 M5 : 11.5 125 with a 2.1 60ft Street Tires
E90 M3 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires
akh23456 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #75
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
 
Mr. 5's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

Posts: 8,618
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
OP, Thanks for posting this.
It's very unfortunate that this happened but I really hope that more information surfaces.

BTW, for those that commented about deleting this thread, the only way that this thread will be deleted is if the OP requested it.
This is a very important thread and I'm hoping that we can learn a lot from it.
Posts, on the other hand, are a different story.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Mr. 5 is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:07 PM   #76
Beedub
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 3,576
iTrader: (0)

i9 think i see where the OP is coming from, at the end of the day AA treatment of this customer was wrong imo..... trying to pass it off on bmw, was wrong simple as.... but op you also should be partially to blame for that part BUT... as an s/c customer i see where your coming from, youve put a kit on a car 1500 miles later your car is dead, unless thats plain bad luck you have to point the finger at the tune, now AA at the time were so cagey about what exactly had happened that this coming out now looks far worse for them......

op can i read between the lines here and just say, you think this was a tune issue right?? Did you ever get any AFR info?? any evidence of detonation or lean conditions??

We all have opinions on this but at the end of the day, id be saying exactly the same as the op... im just being honest.....

if im honest aa should have handled that whole situation including letting the community know what happened properly, if they did that, they simply wouldnt be having to deal with this now nearly 2 years on!!
__________________
Pristine Bi-colour Ti /Bsm...z4m roadster Ess vt2-500....Perfection on wheels.

Last edited by Beedub; 01-18-2012 at 01:03 PM.
Beedub is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:13 PM   #77
chris s
Major General
 
chris s's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New York

Posts: 5,114
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Funny how many people are jumping on AA with no clue what blew this motor.
Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!
__________________

2012 MR e92 M3 DCT, fully loaded... ESS VT2-625, Brembo 380, BBS FI's, Akra/Challenge Sport, KW Sleeve kit, Full OEM CF Interior
2008 e92 M3 Coupe 6MT | AW/BLK Extended...SOLD!
chris s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:18 PM   #78
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,905
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris s View Post
Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!
I agree with J08M3 - we are only hearing 1 side of the story. I had heard a few different versions of this story about a year ago and this one is again completely different.

Unfortunately we dont really know how AA handled this situation, but hopefully more information will surface. Not enough info here yet. I always get a little suspect when a story comes out long after the fact.
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:22 PM   #79
coogs08
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2009 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pearland, TX

Posts: 262
iTrader: (2)

Whenever I am involved in a business transaction that goes wrong, in which I'm the buyer, the effort and steps that the seller go through to correct the situation is more important to me than the mistake itself. If they go out of their way to correct it, I would respect them even more than if there was no mistake at all.
coogs08 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:43 PM   #80
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,858
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris s View Post
Actually people are jumping on AA for their handling of the situation! I think the right response would have been..."Let's get the car here to AA and diagnose what actually caused the failure". Not put the car back to stock and see if you can get the motor covered by warranty.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that a supercharged motor is more prone to failure than an NA motor is just blowing smoke!
+1
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 12:57 PM   #81
0-60Motorsports
Major
 
0-60Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 JB 04 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kingdom of Bahrain

Posts: 1,141
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to 0-60Motorsports Send a message via MSN to 0-60Motorsports Send a message via Yahoo to 0-60Motorsports
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Hi Guys,

as a competitor to Active I hope my view will be taken seriously. It's not in my interest to help anyone out but in life you have to be fair and speak out.

I feel very bad for the OP and his issues but really AA should not be blanket accused like this without proof of their hardware/software actually causing any issue.
Why do I say this? Well my reasons are based on experience of the S65 engine as follows:

We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.

The question as to if Active gave good customer service or not if a different issue. They did pay something which in our book does go a long way.

They have plenty of supercharged cars around the world and not one has failed like this.

We should be very very careful about pointing fingers at a company.

This failure of cyl 5, in my professional opinion, has nothing to do with the AA supercharger kit being fitted.

I hope this information is useful to everyone and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that it is NOT in 'business interest' to defend the competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.
Excellent posts Sal and completely agree with you! thanks for sharing your knowledge
__________________
Current Mods: GC Coilovers, Eibach Sways, PF RTABs, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II + Alpine KCA-420i, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for OEM 16:9 display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip + CF Boot + CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SuperSprint V1 Headers + Catless S-pipes + Res Sec 2 + Race Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OME CSL Steering, OEM CSL Interior, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, EVOLVE Alpha-N, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ....
0-60Motorsports is offline   Bahrain
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #82
Dave07997S
Colonel
 
Drives: 2011 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA

Posts: 2,285
iTrader: (1)

My .02..if you want a supercharged car buy one that from the factory was designed from the ground up for FI. The S65 motor by itself in OEM form is already making over 100hp/litre, you bump this up to 150hp/litre and you don't expect something to give means in my eyes that you have your head in the sand. Look at cars that are blown..take a Mustang GT500 for example. This car gets a lowered compression ratio, forged crank and rods along with a piston package to boot. Not to mention intercoolers that are designed around the engine not some afterthought..this is just to name a few but you see where I am going with this. Why does the manafacturer go these lengths? Its because they have to warranty the car.

Yes stock motors can blow, but do you not feel that slapping on a blower will exasperate the situation?

Kyoshi...lot of experience with Cialis huh? LOL..
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, more to come
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Dave07997S is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 01:10 PM   #83
smmmurf
Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

Posts: 2,048
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
My .02..if you want a supercharged car buy one that from the factory was designed from the ground up for FI. The S65 motor by itself in OEM form is already making over 100hp/litre, you bump this up to 150hp/litre and you don't expect something to give means in my eyes that you have your head in the sand. Look at cars that are blown..take a Mustang GT500 for example. This car gets a lowered compression ratio, forged crank and rods along with a piston package to boot. Not to mention intercoolers that are designed around the engine not some afterthought..this is just to name a few but you see where I am going with this. Why does the manafacturer go these lengths? Its because they have to warranty the car.

Yes stock motors can blow, but do you not feel that slapping on a blower will exasperate the situation?

Kyoshi...lot of experience with Cialis huh? LOL..
I agree with this +1. Why start with the wrong car? The whole point of it is N/A power and nice handling balance. Start with a GT500 or GT-R.

At least the OP has a new engine. Engines were updated in 2009 I believe.
__________________

M3 Sedan LCI - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks
smmmurf is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #84
LostM
Banned
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast

Posts: 84
iTrader: (0)

More disclaimers? Wow, now i know who is voting away my freedom.
Adults make decisions, either you can afford to throw away your bmw warranty and accept risk, or you cant and want to cheat bmw.. But then if your gonna cheat bmw, why should aftermarket company trust you? Hence no warranty on anything other thsn parts they sold you.

Dont worry AA, rational adults can filter bs and see who deserves what, even iff we only have 33% of the story..
LostM is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 01:24 PM   #85
whats77inaname
Native Texan
 
Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

Posts: 1,559
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostM View Post
More disclaimers? Wow, now i know who is voting away my freedom.
Adults make decisions, either you can afford to throw away your bmw warranty and accept risk, or you cant and want to cheat bmw.. But then if your gonna cheat bmw, why should aftermarket company trust you?
Dont worry AA, rational adults can filter bs and see who deserves what, even iff we only have 33% of the story..
Hmmmmmmmmm, you're blaming the OP for trying to cheat BMW when it was aftermarket company that suggested it and then do it. Might be helpful to get your facts straight....
whats77inaname is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 02:05 PM   #86
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Hmmmmmmmmm, you're blaming the OP for trying to cheat BMW when it was aftermarket company that suggested it and then do it. Might be helpful to get your facts straight....
Nothing is proven fact posted on here. If OP is willing to lie to BMW how do we know he's not lying about AA??? ...... just saying....
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 02:17 PM   #87
US///M3
Banned
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Nothing is proven fact posted on here. If OP is willing to lie to BMW how do we know he's not lying about AA??? ...... just saying....
I think he said AA suggested he put it back to stock and even reflashed the ecu for him to make it look stock but got caught on the top speed. I wonder if there were any engine overrevs on there too?
US///M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-18-2012, 02:23 PM   #88
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,858
iTrader: (5)

__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw m3, e90, fail, s65, supercharged

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST