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      01-18-2012, 01:42 AM   #45
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One of my old tech once granaded a motor. Honest tech mistake. I just called my shop insurance and explained what had happened. They cut the customer a check covering parts and labor, he then was verry happy and had us do the work. My rates did not go up at all to since we are still considered a "low claim " shop meaning we rarely have claim

OP you could have tried to claim it on your car insurance, you took it to a shop they worked on it, now its bad. Worth a try, but it might be too late now.

AA you guys could have claimed this on your shop insurance. If your a reputable proffesional shop you should have insurance covering your shop from oops mistakes.
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      01-18-2012, 02:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Sorry to hear this OP.
Wondering why AA didn't delete the top speed reading?

And in before the thread DELETE.
The top speed reading is not stored in eraseable memory. It is a permanent entry...... only a select few would have the ability and equipment to even read most of the info stored in the EDR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamm3k View Post
I don't think the OP was expecting to get a whole new engine (or maybe he was). But under the circumstances (the engine blew after 1200 miles) I think he was expecting a bit more from AA, which is honestly, totally reasonable. It's one thing to blow an engine after 10,000 miles of driving a supercharged S65, it's another to blow it before you've even broken in the supercharger system. All in all, technically, AA didn't do anything wrong. Morally and ethically, they F'ed Up.
I totally agree with what you are saying, but most people have to realize that with a lot of companies, support ends once the check clears!

As for the OP expecting a whole new engine, if he wanted his car fixed, that is all he could expect. Once the block has a rod put through the side it is only good for scrap metal. He would need a long block at the very least and most likely one head as well. At that point it would be just as well to get a complete engine.

I think it is quite clear that with terms and conditions boldly posted on their site, they have had issues like this in the past and they decided to make the disclaimer easy to see and in black and white!

Personally I think it is silly for anyone to modify a car and expect someone to hold your hand if it breaks....... When picking parts people need to learn to do research, ask questions, and not just go with the first company that call!
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      01-18-2012, 07:21 AM   #47
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I don't think you can really blame AA here. You stg 2 SC'd your car w/ meth. It sucks they didn't' help out, but really - they didn't need to at all. Buyer has to take some responsibility, look at the product you bought and what you were trying to do. It's not like you bought just a drop in filter or an exhaust.
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      01-18-2012, 07:50 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I don't think you can really blame AA here. You stg 2 SC'd your car w/ meth. It sucks they didn't' help out, but really - they didn't need to at all. Buyer has to take some responsibility, look at the product you bought and what you were trying to do. It's not like you bought just a drop in filter or an exhaust.
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      01-18-2012, 08:04 AM   #49
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Hi Guys,

as a competitor to Active I hope my view will be taken seriously. It's not in my interest to help anyone out but in life you have to be fair and speak out.

I feel very bad for the OP and his issues but really AA should not be blanket accused like this without proof of their hardware/software actually causing any issue.
Why do I say this? Well my reasons are based on experience of the S65 engine as follows:

We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.

The question as to if Active gave good customer service or not if a different issue. They did pay something which in our book does go a long way.

They have plenty of supercharged cars around the world and not one has failed like this.

We should be very very careful about pointing fingers at a company.

This failure of cyl 5, in my professional opinion, has nothing to do with the AA supercharger kit being fitted.

I hope this information is useful to everyone and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that it is NOT in 'business interest' to defend the competition.
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      01-18-2012, 08:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I don't think you can really blame AA here. You stg 2 SC'd your car w/ meth. It sucks they didn't' help out, but really - they didn't need to at all. Buyer has to take some responsibility, look at the product you bought and what you were trying to do. It's not like you bought just a drop in filter or an exhaust.
Exactly what I was thinking. Like BMRLVR has already said "you've got to pay to play". OP - still sorry to hear about your engine failure.
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      01-18-2012, 09:11 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Hi Guys,

as a competitor to Active I hope my view will be taken seriously. It's not in my interest to help anyone out but in life you have to be fair and speak out.

I feel very bad for the OP and his issues but really AA should not be blanket accused like this without proof of their hardware/software actually causing any issue.
Why do I say this? Well my reasons are based on experience of the S65 engine as follows:

We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.

The question as to if Active gave good customer service or not if a different issue. They did pay something which in our book does go a long way.

They have plenty of supercharged cars around the world and not one has failed like this.

We should be very very careful about pointing fingers at a company.

This failure of cyl 5, in my professional opinion, has nothing to do with the AA supercharger kit being fitted.

I hope this information is useful to everyone and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that it is NOT in 'business interest' to defend the competition.
+1 great info...sorry op to hear about the problem hope everything works out.
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      01-18-2012, 09:40 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
I feel really bad for the OP, and I agree, that AA is not necessarily to blame for the engine blow-up. But I think it is incredible that they returned the car to stock and tried to get the engine fixed (or replaced) through the original BMW warranty. IMHO, that is simply outrageous! It is simply - fraud. That act is more damaging to a company than a blown motor.
Assuming what the OP has stated is factual then I agree with you. However, at this point we've only heard one side of the story...
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      01-18-2012, 09:44 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Well, I doubt AA will come here and write about this incident...
Can't blame them. I would never bring my company into an internet forum battle. No matter who's right or wrong.
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      01-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #54
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Quote:
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Well, I doubt AA will come here and write about this incident...
I agree but it would be nice to hear both sides
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      01-18-2012, 09:56 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPoweredAuto View Post
It was their stg 2 w/meth
Well, I'm not surprised the engine blew. After supercharging the engine and adding meth you basically took the "great leap forward" with cylinder pressure and more importantly TIMING. All this with stock internals is a recipe for disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post

Maybe supercharging and increasing the Redline on a engine that's marginally lubricated(bearings) for high rpm ops in stock form under extreme conditions(track) is a bad idea.

Maybe lowering the redline might help the rod bearing lubrification...
Who says our engines are "marginally lubricated" and where is the claim that the rod bearings caused the failure? In NA form, our engines are lubricated just fine but once again, you can't add a SC and run meth (and a tune to capitalize on this) without fortifying the rest of the engine.


ALSO ***In my opinion, ANYONE (Company or Individual) who breaks parts/blows engines due to mods and brings the car back to stock in order to pitch the dealership of a warranty issue is a scumbag***
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      01-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #56
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      01-18-2012, 10:07 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
I feel really bad for the OP, and I agree, that AA is not necessarily to blame for the engine blow-up. But I think it is incredible that they returned the car to stock and tried to get the engine fixed (or replaced) through the original BMW warranty. IMHO, that is simply outrageous! It is simply - fraud. That act is more damaging to a company than a blown motor.
+1... Def shady business IMHO...
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      01-18-2012, 10:14 AM   #58
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Check it:
HAHA!
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      01-18-2012, 10:18 AM   #59
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safe to say they won't earn my business in the future.
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      01-18-2012, 10:23 AM   #60
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With all due respect to all forum members who have voiced their opinions on this matter, I appreciate it. I feel that if I created a kit with extensive R&D, offered at such a cost, I myself would own up to a mishap like this. I am curious to know if there are ANY other e9x M3 owners that have had the AA kit installed and failed. It's not like I had the kit on the car for 2+ years and it started wearing out over time. It's the fact that it just gave up completely at 1,200 miles. The fact that the bearings on the rods were fine indicates to me no lubrication issue on bottom end causing possible rod knock.

Our car dyno'd much lower than what their claims were as well. I have been wrapping my head around what caused this for 16 months now. I keep reverting back to the thought of the tune being off enough to let go in such short time. Let's say it wasn't the tune per say, the kit was 100% unaltered from what they installed at their shop. Was it driven aggressively? Yes. But that's what you have extensive R&D on such a kit so to test in all formats and scenarios. I know how to drive a car, I'm not new to driving high performance cars, both on street and track.

Did I understand that there is risk by modifying my car? Yes. There is always a risk. The question lies in, is their product really going to run safely on these motors? If they were so quick to try and cover this one incident up and suggest something underhanded like this, it beckons the question of is mine the only one that has failed from AA? Have they covered up others before it has leaked on to the web?

If I made a product that caused another component on the vehicle to fail due to it being directly related to my product, would I modify it to prevent these types of mishaps? Yes. Would I come out of pocket to fix things for customer? Yes. Maybe it is just me, but I was raised to do right by other people even if it calls for personal sacrifice.

As stated before, I have an extensive background in the automotive field, especially in BMW. I am a shop owner and if me just saying I would have handled things differently if it were my kit isn't enough, I encourage you to please see the type of operation I run, where clearly we take care of our customers and they share their positive responses in abundance http://www.google.com/maps/place?q=i...21393750738448

Do I expect everyone to do business as I do? No. Would it be nice? Yes.

This post was made to share my experience, and show exactly how I was treated. Others will have had great customer service with AA, as I'm sure some will have not.

I really am not 100% sure what is going on over there, but I have always dealt with their 2 stellar customer service guys in the past. They were able to at least make me feel that Active gave a damn about their customers. These 2 guys left Active, and I doubt it was because their bosses were treating them fairly. The people in charge over there have terrible customer service in my experiences. I have brought them 10's of thousands of dollars in business over the past few years, yet they act as though that doesn't matter.

If there are questions I didn't answer please let me know. Thank you all again and have a great day!

Last edited by MPoweredAuto; 01-18-2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Grammar
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      01-18-2012, 10:27 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Hi Guys,

as a competitor to Active I hope my view will be taken seriously. It's not in my interest to help anyone out but in life you have to be fair and speak out.

I feel very bad for the OP and his issues but really AA should not be blanket accused like this without proof of their hardware/software actually causing any issue.
Why do I say this? Well my reasons are based on experience of the S65 engine as follows:

We have seen 5 cars here ourselves blow out Cyl no 5 in the exact same way as this case.
Most cars were stock and blew at medium load around mid rpm's under normal driving.

On the 2 cars that were out of warranty we decided to check by bore scoping and found pistons to be heavily damaged, spark plugs damaged and pieces of valve moving around inside or make their way into the stock CAT's.

We know our local dealers here know of even more but won't talk too much about it. So there are more than just the ones we have seen.

Even on the cars out of warranty BMW UK replaced the engines without question! They did try to charge labour on these cars but even then the owners gave a small fight and they gave in. What does this tell you?

To reiterate -- all cars had cyl no 5 blow out.

This is in our opinion a problem with the cyl head in the cyl 5 area on some cars. Not cam timing based either as if it was then you would have other pistons damaged too.

While I was in Dubai last month I saw another car blow Cyl no 5 and that's again running stock tune.

I know for a FACT that other tuners know about some cars blowing Cyl 5 and it surprises me they don't post about it when something bad happens to a tuner.

The question as to if Active gave good customer service or not if a different issue. They did pay something which in our book does go a long way.

They have plenty of supercharged cars around the world and not one has failed like this.

We should be very very careful about pointing fingers at a company.

This failure of cyl 5, in my professional opinion, has nothing to do with the AA supercharger kit being fitted.

I hope this information is useful to everyone and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that it is NOT in 'business interest' to defend the competition.
I agree but an engine failure under light load doesn't necessarily mean that's when the problem started. The internals could've been weaken from previous runs from previous days or even months.

Usually after a sc'ed s65 failure all the tuners talk about the s65 weaknesses even stock.
when they're installing those sc kits do they have those concerns in mind?
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      01-18-2012, 10:30 AM   #62
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I'm not a car expert but this is serious stuff. IMHO anyone who says that it is the fully the OP's fault since he is modifying his car might be partially correct but most of the blame needs to be put on AA. If all of these potential issues are not advertised then they are doing a disservice to the tuning community. We should not have to scour internet forums to find these types of potential issues. They need to be clearly advertised on their web-site with complete research write-ups of the causes, likelihood of failure, potential solutions and lessons learned. After looking at the AA web-site there is very little information on these kits.

Example: If we now know that no 5 has been causing issues than this should be stated with an estimate likelihood of potential failure.

But if what you are saying is true on their recommendations, then they will not be getting my business.

Last edited by advanced101; 01-18-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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      01-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
I agree but an engine failure under light load doesn't necessarily mean that's when the problem started. The internals could've been weaken from previous runs from previous days or even months.

Usually after a sc'ed s65 failure all the tuners talk about the s65 weaknesses even stock.
when they're installing those sc kits do they have those concerns in mind?
There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.
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      01-18-2012, 10:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.

The point here is that a stock car can blow... well, so can a tuned one.

People just need someone to blame. Who does everyone blame when a stock motor blows?

There is zero evidence here that AA caused the failure especially given this type of failure has been seen on stock cars.

Melting or destroying just one piston and blowing a hole in the block from tuning ..... doesn't make any sense. Boost is boost no matter how you look at it.

People need to understand there is always a risk even with a stock engine let alone a boosted one. It's pretty much common sense.
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      01-18-2012, 10:57 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
There have been plenty of failures of engines running stock from the very beginning.

The information is there.
Where is this information? On some internet forum? When I called inquiring about a supercharger kit a couple weeks ago I was not made aware of these potential failures. Words like "safe" and reliable" were thrown around. Looked on their web-site, also no mention. Consumers need to be protected, and that starts with information. Whether the cyl no. 5 was AA's fault or not they need to advertise that there is a possibility of it failing whether the motor is in stock form or after a SC kit is added. Also, whether a SC kit might increase the likelihood of failure.
It is very unfair to say "Oh well, it happens".

Last edited by advanced101; 01-18-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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      01-18-2012, 11:19 AM   #66
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I'm not a car expert but this is serious stuff. IMHO anyone who says that it is the fully the OP's fault since he is modifying his car might be partially correct but most of the blame needs to be put on AA. If all of these potential issues are not advertised then they are doing a disservice to the tuning community. We should not have to scour internet forums to find these types of potential issues. They need to be clearly advertised on their web-site with complete research write-ups of the causes, likelihood of failure, potential solutions and lessons learned. After looking at the AA web-site there is very little information on these kits.

Example: If we now know that no 5 has been causing issues than this should be stated with an estimate likelihood of potential failure.

But if what you are saying is true on their recommendations, then they will not be getting my business.
+1
No 5 has been causing issues, but let's supercharge it anyway. Did it cross the tuners mind maybe this engine isn't a good candidate to be supercharged?
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