Supercharged e90 M3 Failure

[mattgold]

MPoweredAuto - I don't mean to sound harsh... but now it just sounds like you're grasping at straws.

"Maybe it was this...Or it could have been that... I just Googled 'detonation' and found a link that supports my theory"

It sounds like your head is 'reeling' from this... but isn't this a bit of a delayed reaction? Shouldn't you have gone through all these motions in October of *2010*? That was *15* months ago!

At this point, it all seems a bit contrived... You spend $16K, you popped a motor that was $25K, AA gave you $16K back, you're out of pocket to get back to stock. I feel for you, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes, but I know what I sign up for.

Welcome to the world of forced induction/car modification.

[Mason3]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

the bottom line at the end of the day is.. you boosted your car.. your engine go bye bye. buy a faster car next time.

in my opinion, AA came on here and made a bolder statement than you. That thread created by a representative from them, obviously with the whole company's approval, put their entire company and brand at risk. I highly doubt a established company like AA or any vendor on here, that wants to do business and realize that forums are 99% of the customers, would disclose this kind of information. Meanwhile your story is shaky on top of everything else. A business wouldn't have risked their name if what they were posting wasn't true. If something was wrong with the way the kit was designed/tune etc, dont you think an issue would have arose sooner?

This thread has been riddled with responses like this. Something like, "you modified your car, your bad, you are up a creek". I understand this to some extent. That being said, millions of people modify their cars. Some minor, some extreme. I don't think this is a valid response in every scenario though.

While we may NEVER know what happened in this specific case, there are a few things that piqued my interest in this thread.

First, AA has written that they have had no engine failures CAUSED by their kits. The OP asked in no uncertain terms if they have had ANY failures of motors with AA kits or tunes on their cars for ANY reason, even if AA has determined that it wasn't CAUSED by them. To date I don't think AA has answered this. I think this is important because it calls into question the law of averages.

If you look at a company that has boosted hundreds upon hundreds of cars, and they have had zero motor failures (for ANY reason) on their cars and then look at another company that has boosted 20-50 or whatever that number is (assuming it's many less than the 1st company), and they have had 2,3,4 or more failures (again for ANY reason), then there may be something to a claim that either a part, an installation, a tune, etc may have either caused OR led to a failure. The law of averages would state that their would be roughly the same percentage of failures among ALL tuners if their is really a motor issue from the factory.

Now if AA comes out and says, "NO, this is the ONLY car that we have EVER had our kit or tune on that has had a failure for ANY reason", then that leads to their credibility in my mind.

The reason I bring this up, is that new people read threads like this and see responses saying, "Don't boost or your engine will blow" and that's simply not true. How many total engine failures between all tuners and stock cars have there been vs. how many have been modified. I think the percentage is very small.

Mason

[mattgold]

Originally Posted by Mason3

The OP asked in no uncertain terms if they have had ANY failures of motors with AA kits or tunes on their cars for ANY reason, even if AA has determined that it wasn't CAUSED by them. To date I don't think AA has answered this. I think this is important because it calls into question the law of averages

I love quoting myself...

Originally Posted by mattgold

They did answer it publicity in post 267:

As for other 'failures', it seems implied the YouTube video of Bobby Rahal competing at Sebring in GT2 (ALMS?) competition in March of 2009 was running an AA kit - not sure that's the case.

Then there are two pictures posted of AA cars with MPoweredAuto implying they have had failures with ZERO info backing them up from either side.



I don't want to get too conspiracy theory here... but this happened 15 months ago, it makes me ask "why now?"...

So let's see...

* Jan 6th MPoweredAuto (IMWnc) announced he was selling his shop in NC and moving to South Florida (different forum).
* Jan 17th he started this thread (and others).
* Now it seems MPoweredAuto is getting privy information from inside AA about other failures...

Who is feeding MPoweredAuto this information about AA failures? Did the owners come forward? What's next for Jordan Russ in South Florida? Another shop?

Things just aren't adding up... Could there be ulterior motives at work?


The plot thickens...

-M

[Mason3]

Originally Posted by Mason3

First, AA has written that they have had no engine failures CAUSED by their kits.

I love quoting myself too. Like I said, the point of my post was to find out if there was any truth to the speculation of multiple failures for ANY reason.

[mattgold]

Originally Posted by Mason3

I love quoting myself too. Like I said, the point of my post was to find out if there was any truth to the speculation of multiple failures for ANY reason.

So the question is: over 31 years has a car AA ever worked on failed?

[MotrsportM3]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

I like how the OP keeps saying he was convinced to return it to stock. yet when you look at the hks plugs that the pics are shown, it obviously was not. Anyone else miss this? I've kept up with this entire tread, and it's turned into nothing but a broken record....poor me, it wasn't my fault. Get over it, what's done is done and you have no proof, only speculation. There is more speculation about your car and your stories than there is AA at this point. You're well beyond the point of diminishing returns, and I'm out.
None of this info would keep me from buying an AA product, it is merely speculations and assumptions at best.

+1

[Edjay]

Jordan, you have no proof your engine was running lean and detonating due to AA bad tune, or SC kit. Lots of other tuner and even car makers ot just BMW revise their ecu mappings. This does not mean the previous maps is bad and harm engines. You still have not told us whats the story with the other 2 cars, and proof should along with that story.

Imo, everything should have been done inhouse. The kit should have been installed at your shop, you should dyno tune your car. Also, meth same for NOS can and will clean, meaning it will turn things white. Like I have said, judging by your pistons I dont think you were running lean, specially not lean enough to cause engine failure.

This is my opinion from pictures, I have built, torn down and blown my own motor on my own race/street car. No its not a m3 motor (I dont have balls to play in the $20k motor) category).

[LostM]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Please tell me how catted vs non catted effects boost on a supercharged car?

Backpressure and EGT's may have changed, but not boost!

your sure about that? i mean.. backpressure is what creates and regulates boost (in a sense).... reduce backpressure, boost drops, increase it, boost would be higher again

[MotrsportM3]

Originally Posted by mattgold

I love quoting myself...





As for other 'failures', it seems implied the YouTube video of Bobby Rahal competing at Sebring in GT2 (ALMS?) competition in March of 2009 was running an AA kit - not sure that's the case.

Then there are two pictures posted of AA cars with MPoweredAuto implying they have had failures with ZERO info backing them up from either side.



I don't want to get too conspiracy theory here... but this happened 15 months ago... Jan 4th MPoweredAuto announced he was selling his shop in NC and moving to South Florida (different forum). A week later he started this thread (and others). Now it seems MPoweredAuto is getting privy information from inside AA about other failures...

Who is feeding MPoweredAuto this information about AA failures? Did the owners come forward? What's next for Jordan Russ in South Florida? Another shop?

Things just aren't adding up... Could there be ulterior motives at work?


The plot thickens...

-M

+1

1) If you had an issue you should have addressed it 15 months ago.

2) If you are a shop owner that sold AA products you would obviously want to properly tear down and document the failure and work with AA to "fix" your so called bad tune or whatever you continue to claim.

3) Since you owned a shop,you know the aftermarket scene, and know the risk. So why are you acting like a person who has no idea what a S/C is and any possible risks?

4) If you truly "cared" or wanted to help this forum and the BMW community as a whole, you should have came out with this issue sooner to prevent others from Supercharging their M3s.

5) You seem to be doing this for some sort of gain...I will not be surprised if there is a new shop in South FL, with you behind it.

This has BS written all over it and it really is a shame that some people want to tear down others without proof and merit. Especially a company who has been making the BMW aftermarket better for 31 years.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Mason3

This thread has been riddled with responses like this. Something like, "you modified your car, your bad, you are up a creek". I understand this to some extent. That being said, millions of people modify their cars. Some minor, some extreme. I don't think this is a valid response in every scenario though.

Not in every sceanrio but boosting a high compression - high revving..N/A configured motor is out there on the "extreme" side of your scale.

Thats why its confounding how someone can do this... then bitch and moan when something goes wrong..

Accept responsibilty for you own actions people

[MiamiE93Vert]

I have been following this thread from the beginning and want to add some additional questions which have been bugging me that hopefully have some answers (the questions are based on information OP has provided, taken at face value):

1. OP has stated this is a "shop" car and that he never overreved the engine. I assume a shop car is used by many individuals in the shop, correct? How can he be certain someone else in the shop did not overrev/abuse the engine? Didn't the engine die while the "boss" was driving it? If this is true, the 6,000 rpm statement is hearsay because the "boss" was the person with actual knowlege over what happened at the time the engine blew, not OP. If OP does not own the company as he has asserted (as he sold it to a third party), who is the "boss" anyway?

2. Assuming OP was the owner of the North Carolina company, what does the current owner of the shop in NC think of all this? I am a transaction attorney, and I would never let someone sell my client a company without a non-compete and confidentiality agreement from the Seller, precisely because of some of these issues. OP is most likley diminishing the present value of the NC company through this thread, potentially to be a competitor to to the NC company's products, and I would want to prevent that at all costs.

3. I am still not understanding the motivations of OP. If he is staying in the business presumably for the long term, why make these issues public at this time? I don't understand how a public debate on the issue will ultimately help OP's long term business prospects. Before this event, he obviously had a strong relationship with AA; how and why do you destroy that relationship on the verge of: (a) selling your company; (b) relocating to a new area; (c) to start a business endeavor presumably in the same industry and area as the company you are disparraging, along with disparraging the business relationship that could have been your strongest and most profitable referral source for future business; and (d) with a pregnant wife for good measure; all in the name of serving a greater good for the aftermarket/tuning community? I am sorry, I try to be a good person, but this level of self sacrifice does not make sense to me unless either OP is an automotive saint or there is way more to the story.

[Mason3]

Originally Posted by mattgold

So the question is: over 31 years has a car AA ever worked on failed?

No I think the question of: Are there any other E9X M3's that have had motor failures for ANY reason that have either an AA Tune or an AA SC'er on them?

Like I said, if it's only this one, then that gives them a lot of credibility in my mind. If it's 3 or 4 or 10, then maybe there is something to the OP's claim.

[mattgold]

Originally Posted by Mason3

No I think the question of: Are there any other E9X M3's that have had motor failures for ANY reason that have either an AA Tune or an AA SC'er on them?

Like I said, if it's only this one, then that gives them a lot of credibility in my mind. If it's 3 or 4 or 10, then maybe there is something to the OP's claim.

The only 'other' two I've ever heard of are referenced by the OP in this thread.

Those owners never came forward. No others have come forward. No info in known about the builds or 'failures'.

At this point, they are hearsay.

-M

[m33]

OP's freeze frame data was read by AA on Oct-10.
OP takes care to BMW on Oct-13.

So far, timeline matches OP's story.

Freeze frame data shows over rev event at 26183 miles.
OP's car at BMW shows 27278 miles.
OP claims he only put 1200 miles on the kit and stands by that.

Has anybody noticed that
27278 - 26183 = 1095 miles?

Quite possible that the freeze frame data came from the OP's car when he took it to AA for the install and was there already.

[mattgold]

Originally Posted by m33

OP's freeze frame data was read by AA on Oct-10.
OP takes care to BMW on Oct-13.

So far, timeline matches OP's story.

Freeze frame data shows over rev event at 26183 miles.
OP's car at BMW shows 27278 miles.
OP claims he only put 1200 miles on the kit and stands by that.

Has anybody noticed that
27278 - 26183 = 1095 miles?

Quite possible that the freeze frame data came from the OP's car when he took it to AA for the install and was there already.

I wrote out this exact same post yesterday... but didn't have a point to make except 'it doesn't add up'.

It was not likely pulled at time of install, the install was in August...


Also add, AA claims to have installed the car 24,345miles:

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Jordan purchased a Level 2 SC kit for his E92 M3 from Active Autowerke, it was installed at our facility in August, 2010, mileage 24,345.

24,345 + 1200 = 25,545




...oh, and the drive from Miami to Wilmington is 800miles... Not sure if he drove home or not, but I was under the impression that he did.

[MPoweredAuto]

Thank you all again for your comments, despite most being negative towards my character. To answer your questions, the shop car was ONLY driven by me, the 100% owner/boss for 4+ years. We called it the shop M3 to showcase it.
I was NOT in any way forced to sell my business, and in fact am still affiliated in a large way with the shop and am an employee there.

The business relationship between mysel / IMW, and Active Autowerke has been mortally severed. The reason I didnt push the case harder 15 months ago was because I was convinced by an OWNER at AA that it wasn't their fault. I found out more recently however that I wasn't the only failed e9x M3 equipped with the AA s/c kit.

There have been great lengths taken in this case to disprove my facts and "theories", but all I asked for was help in this case and I was denied.

AA gave me a PARTIAL refund of my money, only due to me begging their old sales manager, who in turn had to plead with the owners to get it approved. It was no walk in the park. They escaped with minimal damage then, where I was left with the full weight on my shoulders.

I can take harsh words said about me all day long, for I know in the end of all this chaos there is light. The light there is truth. Bad mouth me all you want, all that does is make me dig harder and deeper at the truth.

Thank you all who actually see reason and truth behind my stance.

[mattgold]

Originally Posted by MPoweredAuto

Thank you all again for your comments, despite most being negative towards my character. To answer your questions, the shop car was ONLY driven by me, the 100% owner/boss for 4+ years. We called it the shop M3 to showcase it.
I was NOT in any way forced to sell my business, and in fact am still affiliated in a large way with the shop and am an employee there.

The business relationship between mysel / IMW, and Active Autowerke has been mortally severed. The reason I didnt push the case harder 15 months ago was because I was convinced by an OWNER at AA that it wasn't their fault. I found out more recently however that I wasn't the only failed e9x M3 equipped with the AA s/c kit.

There have been great lengths taken in this case to disprove my facts and "theories", but all I asked for was help in this case and I was denied.

AA gave me a PARTIAL refund of my money, only due to me begging their old sales manager, who in turn had to plead with the owners to get it approved. It was no walk in the park. They escaped with minimal damage then, where I was left with the full weight on my shoulders.

I can take harsh words said about me all day long, for I know in the end of all this chaos there is light. The light there is truth. Bad mouth me all you want, all that does is make me dig harder and deeper at the truth.

Thank you all who actually see reason and truth begin my stance.

You forgot this:


* So where did all this information about other failed M3s come from?
* Whose cars were they and what was done to them?
* What 'failed'? Rod? Valves? Kanooter Valve?
* If "this isn't intended to flame, but rather inform" - why stop informing us now?
* What's your plans in South Florida? Opening another shop?
* Anything you can comment on to bring light to the mileage discrepancies?

These are all pretty important to legitimizing your *motive* since the cause of failure is still inconclusive.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by mattgold

You forgot this:


* So where did all this information about other failed M3s come from?
* Whose cars were they and what was done to them?
* What 'failed'? Rod? Valves? Kanooter Valve?
* If "this isn't intended to flame, but rather inform" - why stop informing us now?
* What's your plans in South Florida? Opening another shop?
* Anything you can comment on to bring light to the mileage discrepancies?

These are all pretty important to legitimizing your *motive* since the cause of failure is still inconclusive.

Your wasting your breath - OP doesn't ever answer questions or even support his serious allegations. The thread is a fail other than knowing an engine failed with an AA kit strapped on (which is old news now as most knew it happened 15 months ago) and hearing some interesting theories.

Good questions though - shop in South Florida makes sense - maybe an attempt to flame AA before they become local competition.

Only thing that would make this Soap Opera even better is if he is partnering with an ex AA employee or two

[MPoweredAuto]

Moderator-

Can you please lock this thread until next week when I can add more constructive data? I feel this is getting quite off-topic and would like to restore order once we have more data/facts.

Thank you

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by MPoweredAuto

Moderator-

Can you please lock this thread until next week when I can add more constructive data? I feel this is getting quite off-topic and would like to restore order once we have more data/facts.

Thank you

Doubt that will happen.

There are several questions you can answer that have been addressed though without having to provide further technical information.

[MPoweredAuto]

At this point it is a finger pointing contest. I would like to wait until more data from DME is obtained and can open the floor to more questions afterwards.

Thank you.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by MPoweredAuto

At this point it is a finger pointing contest. I would like to wait until more data from DME is obtained and can open the floor to more questions afterwards.

Thank you.

Of course, because you are being vague about issues that have been raised. The DME data will not necessarily exonerate you.