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View Poll Results: Which color rear turn signals/blinkers/indicators do you prefer?
Amber 82 67.77%
Red 39 32.23%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #1
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Amber or Red Turn Signals / Indicators in Rear?

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Many manufacturers produce special taillights for the US market that have red turn signals. There is no DOT requirement that turn signals have to be red. In fact, the DOT has published studies that suggest amber turn signals are safer. See PDF attachments below.

It is unclear why manufacturers would go through the trouble of producing two sets of taillights. But, we know cost is always a factor (is red cheaper?). Local-market taste and preferences are also a factor.

Several BMW models, until recently, came with red rear turn signals, but one could buy aftermarket or EU spec taillights and plug and play with ease, or with minor coding. Or for incandescent or halogen, one could simply change the bulb color (even pure yellow/"selective yellow" would come through some red lenses somewhat amber). Until the mid 2000s BMW and other non-US makers consistently produced cars with amber rear turn signals.

The new X5 F15 is wired differently. You cannot plug and play. The coding is a nightmare according to one user who is a very proficient coder (rewired, fried a controller, spent hours getting the errors resolved).

So, my question to everyone is:
Do you like red turn signals and is BMW targeting you, or do you prefer amber and BMW (and Audi, Merc, VW) is ignoring you? Please vote above.
I can't respond to every enquiry, but hope to generate a good discussion around this subject. I hate the red turn signals and need to understand why I have to live with them.

Thank you.

811115.pdf <- DOT Study
811050.pdf <- DOT Study summary

p.s. the vote is for your taste, as our individual opinions regarding safety are no match for studies, whatever they may conclude.
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Last edited by MattBianco; 10-04-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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      10-25-2014, 02:49 PM   #2
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Spoke to a BMW rep about this as a part of a survey follow up. The person sounded surprised and was checking the DOT docs as we were on the phone. Was even more surprised that unlike prior models, wiring for US models had changed (no plug and play using EU spec taillights). He could not explain the rationale for red.

I told them I was very envious of the 2015 Ford Taurus taillights.
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      11-05-2014, 04:16 PM   #3
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I don't recall the specific source that mentioned this to me, but I've had this debate with several friends in various roles at a few manufacturers. Two factors are involved here.

First, there's a provision somewhere in the DOT FMVSS 108 code that specifies a certain percentage of a lamp needs to illuminate for braking and directional indicating. Manufacturers are getting creative with automotive lighting thanks to LEDs, light tubes, etc. Designs and patterns are possible now that weren't before. However, sometimes these patterns just don't work with our outdated laws.

In the case of the X5 and X6, the segmented nature of the taillights means that not enough "surface area" lights up when indicating braking or turning. To accomplish what was necessary, the pattern had to change for the US market. In order to do so, a single color was necessary so that everything matched because of the dual function.

The design of the X5 taillight is basically 5 segments. From top to bottom, and inside | outside:

1 - running lights (or the top of the L design)
2 - running lights (bottom of the L design)
3 - brake lamp (US/RoW) | brake lamp (US/RoW)
4 - reverse - turn signal (RoW) / emergency brake flash/BFD (US) | brake lamp (US) / turn signal (RoW)
5 - rear fog

Cars that don't have the euro taillights actually look a bit better to me, but only when braking. The added slice of light provides additional visibility that "hey, I'm stopping". I feel at times my lights look a bit thin. Same with the turn signals. But it's that personal observation that reinforces the DOT rules. They could have made the inner turn signal flash amber (for indicating) but it technically wouldn't be legal.

The second is all about cost. While BMW is upmarket, variations in the exchange rate mean they try to cost cut just about everywhere they can. Since amber isn't a requirement, they use red LEDs which are less expensive. We get no rear fogs, as another example. Other car makers do, like Audi and Volvo. And the list goes on. This doesn't necessarily apply fully to the X5 (since it is built here in the US), but does on other models. [EDIT: there are rear fogs in the US tails, but internal lamp circuitry and wiring makes them impossible to activate. If you get the switch, code, etc. only the BFD lamp will illuminate. It costs less to just add the LEDs than it does to add the switch + wiring, so like many manufacturers, BMW just builds them this way.]

And another point with respect to cost cutting - wiring. The taillights I retrofitted required extra wiring. This costs money. On one vehicle it was nothing, but across thousands it adds up. The US wiring was less complicated, which can also translate into less maintenance.

BMW isn't the only one guilty of this. My partner and I just bought a 2015 GTI Autobahn. Instead of coming with the beautiful LED taillights available overseas, it came with generic incandescent ones. Brake and turn are combined. Following him home the other day in bright sunlight, I can say that they're pretty horrible and are difficult to distinguish. LED would have made them better. Amber would have made them perfect. Fortunately a retrofit kit (with a harness) is available, and I just ordered it for his car.

Just my opinion. Until our laws get updated, things like this are just going to happen. And even if the laws are updated, importers may still choose to keep things "red" so their balance sheets remain black.
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      11-05-2014, 07:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdimagineer View Post
....
First, .... DOT FMVSS 108 ...

The second is all about cost. ...
Just my opinion. Until our laws get updated, things like this are just going to happen. And even if the laws are updated, importers may still choose to keep things "red" so their balance sheets remain black.
@wdimagineer, I just want to say thank you once again for shedding so much light on this and so many other subjects here. I would be a "follower" if the site's app would have the feature.

To a person not as familiar as yourself it seems cost is the primary factor as there is ample surface area to accomplish this. Just check out a new Ford Taurus which has a smaller total surface area for tail lights.

The DRL area is large enough and could serve a dual purpose (get brighter with braking) as they do in so many other cars. I completely agree that the rest-of-the-world (RoW) brake lights on the X5 seem insufficient and not as well distinguished beneath the DRLs.

As for me, I have capitulated on obtaining amber lights. Still, I am hopeful enough people raise this issue so that when we spend $80k on a car, we are not spared what is known to be a better, safer way to display indicators. Sure, LEDs are changing the way these lights are designed and they are more efficient, and light up nearly instantly, but if we have to give up features of incandescent and halogen that make the car safer, then I am not sold on the trade-off.
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      11-06-2014, 10:16 AM   #5
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I do not like the red turn indicators. I was behind a car the other day. It was braking, then put it's turn signal on. Very difficult to see the turn indicator since it was surrounded by the brakes lighting up. Totally unacceptable. In a country like the United States where we have straight up clueless/oblivious/awful drivers on 90% of our roads, we need every single bit of safety on these vehicles that we can get.

I'm not a fan of LED brake indicators. I've been behind cars at night that are literally blinding to you when they put their brakes on; not to mention sitting at a stop light behind one. How the hell this is safe? I have no idea.
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      11-06-2014, 01:15 PM   #6
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Color makes no difference to me but I am really thrown off when a car doesn't have a third brake light.
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      11-06-2014, 09:37 PM   #7
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I prefer orange because I want to be seen and understood easily in my intentions when I change directions. Orange is easy to understand.
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      01-16-2015, 03:45 PM   #8
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VW Tiguan turn signals are even a bigger fail. They have an amber lens, but only the red brake lights blink, like the BMW F15/X5. Shame. http://jalopnik.com/the-vw-tiguans-u...ies-1574321243
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      01-18-2015, 01:21 PM   #9
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Amber all the way. I don't understand the rationale for red turn signals.
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      02-08-2015, 11:23 PM   #10
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Even truck drivers have caught on....study shows trucks with amber rear turn signals are safer: http://www.truckinginfo.com/blog/tra...-use-them.aspx
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      02-09-2015, 06:10 AM   #11
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I liked it when BMW used clear lenses for the rear turn signals. Gave it a really distinct European look compared to most American cars before that used the same red brake light bulb to double as the turn indicators (dangerous IMO).

My favorite was the E46 which combined amber blinkers behind a clear lens a touch of modernity with the LED indicator bulbs.

Loved it. Not only did the clear lens give a nice contrast instead of a big red blob on all the newer Euro cars but the amber blinkers also are an instant signal to drivers that the car is about to turn or make a lane change.

Not a fan of amber blinkers with red lens/housing however. So my vote would be for amber blinkers but with a clear housing.

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      03-02-2015, 12:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
Many manufacturers produce special taillights for the US market that have red turn signals. There is no DOT requirement that turn signals have to be red. In fact, the DOT has published studies that suggest amber turn signals are safer. See PDF attachments below.

It is unclear why manufacturers would go through the trouble of producing two sets of taillights. But, we know cost is always a factor (is red cheaper?). Local-market taste and preferences are also a factor.

Several BMW models, until recently, came with red rear turn signals, but one could buy aftermarket or EU spec taillights and plug and play with ease, or with minor coding. Or for incandescent or halogen, one could simply change the bulb color (even pure yellow/"selective yellow" would come through some red lenses somewhat amber). Until the mid 2000s BMW and other non-US makers consistently produced cars with amber rear turn signals.

The new X5 F15 is wired differently. You cannot plug and play. The coding is a nightmare according to one user who is a very proficient coder (rewired, fried a controller, spent hours getting the errors resolved).

So, my question to everyone is:
Do you like red turn signals and is BMW targeting you, or do you prefer amber and BMW (and Audi, Merc, VW) is ignoring you? Please vote above.
I can't respond to every enquiry, but hope to generate a good discussion around this subject. I hate the red turn signals and need to understand why I have to live with them.

Thank you.

Attachment 1099888 <- DOT Study
Attachment 1099889 <- DOT Study summary

p.s. the vote is for your taste, as our individual opinions regarding safety are no match for studies, whatever they may conclude.
Captain,

I could not agree with you more regarding the safety of using amber turn signals instead of red ones. Using amber for turn signals clearly distinguishes them from the red brake lights and parking lights, thereby causing less confusion for drivers behind you.

Most German car manufacturers dedicated amber for turn signals until recently. Up until this model year, I think the 7-series still had amber turn signals. I believe AUDI was responsible for bringing all-red taillight treatments to the U.S.

I am actually looking for a set of Euro/Canadian-spec taillights that use amber turn signals. Does anyone know if such things even exist anymore?
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      03-02-2015, 01:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TourStageFan View Post
Captain,

I could not agree with you more regarding the safety of using amber turn signals instead of red ones. Using amber for turn signals clearly distinguishes them from the red brake lights and parking lights, thereby causing less confusion for drivers behind you.

Most German car manufacturers dedicated amber for turn signals until recently. Up until this model year, I think the 7-series still had amber turn signals. I believe AUDI was responsible for bringing all-red taillight treatments to the U.S.

I am actually looking for a set of Euro/Canadian-spec taillights that use amber turn signals. Does anyone know if such things even exist anymore?
I think expect for F15/16, you can still get plug and play euro tail lights. Just find the part number at any parts catalog site (I use etk.cc because it has a simple graphic search), Google the part number and order. For example, for your e60: http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/search/sele...+525xi/ECE/63/

The red turn signal is so US 60s primitive that I have even toyed with getting an amber LED strip and attaching it to the rear somewhere.
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      03-02-2015, 02:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
I think expect for F15/16, you can still get plug and play euro tail lights. Just find the part number at any parts catalog site (I use etk.cc because it has a simple graphic search), Google the part number and order. For example, for your e60: http://www.etk.cc/bmw/EN/search/sele...+525xi/ECE/63/

The red turn signal is so US 60s primitive that I have even toyed with getting an amber LED strip and attaching it to the rear somewhere.
Thanks for the tip, will check out the link. I was going to make the same reference to cars from Detroit circa 1960, but did not for fear of backlash about not being a good American, which I most certainly am!
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      03-02-2015, 02:52 AM   #15
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I guess I would be in the minority to say that I prefer the all red look (with exception of the reverse clear). I think it looks much cleaner. It's funny, whenever there is a differentiation in design between USDM, EDM, JDM, etc., people always end up wanting what is not domestic to them.
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      03-02-2015, 12:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenix View Post
I guess I would be in the minority to say that I prefer the all red look (with exception of the reverse clear). I think it looks much cleaner. It's funny, whenever there is a differentiation in design between USDM, EDM, JDM, etc., people always end up wanting what is not domestic to them.
Outside of US, BMW has all-red (hold reverse) lenses that produce amber colored turn-signal light. Look is simple, function more robust.

For me, it is purely a safety matter that has been substantiated by DOT studies, not wanting something that is different. With the BMW X5 it is especially bad because the red turn signal is the same bulb as the brake light -doing double duty). If at minimum, a different (corner) would blink red while you had a separate red brake light, it would somewhat better. Mercedes GL is all red, but with separate bulbs for each function, for instance.
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      03-02-2015, 12:46 PM   #17
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^ good points!
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      06-04-2015, 01:11 PM   #18
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2016 Volvo XC90 turn signal fail. Also goes for looks vs safety:

"The Audi influence is most apparent out back where U.S.-bound models get red turn signals instead of the amber blinkers found on the European model. While Audi supposedly makes the amber-to-red change because the amber lamps from the EU don’t cover enough surface area, Volvo’s switch is purely aesthetic."


http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...t-drive-video/

It is astonishing that so many manufacturers are opting for "aesthetics" vs safety (DOT proven) for rear turn signals.
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      06-04-2015, 03:18 PM   #19
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Off topic a bit but, I'd like to see vehicle under glow of red when braking and orange on the particular side you are indicating to turn. I think it would look awesome especially at night.
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      10-27-2015, 02:17 AM   #20
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Road & Track rants about why red signals are inferior to amber ones: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...a-marty-mcfly/

"Amber rear turn signals are the most un-ambiguous way for a car to let its driver indicate his or her intentions. They're a completely different color from the taillight, lit by a completely different lighting element, on a completely different circuit. There's no way a person with open eyes and a few semi-attentive brain cells could misconstrue a blinking yellow light on the back of a car, truck, van, or ride-on lawnmower as anything other than an indication of a plan to change directions in the near future."

....

...Worse still, a bunch of them will use the same lightbulb, or LED array, for all three functions: Taillight, brake light, and turn signal. At a split-second glance, an amber turn signal immediately registers its intent in your mind.
The F15 X5 falls into this category of unicolored LED strips -at least the US versions.
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      10-27-2015, 04:44 PM   #21
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I'm pretty sure that quote fits for a red signal as well.
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      12-11-2015, 05:20 PM   #22
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Red is more an American aesthetic: eg. Mustangs & Camaros
Form should follow function: I voted amber.
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