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      05-30-2007, 08:40 AM   #45
sdiver68
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
either way though, the new M3 is going to have to be a beast
Agreed, and that's why I'm quite disappointed in the e92 M3 specs.

For one, the same price GT-R will give it a beat down in any performance measure and has just as much history and heritage.

The C63 will be a monster in a straight line and AMG is getting better in the handling department.

The CTS-V is being redesigned. They weren't too far off last go round.

The RS4 came out 2 years ago with virtually the same engine specs as the new M3.
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      05-30-2007, 09:35 AM   #46
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spec's lie though....

I had a E36 M3 with 240 hp, and it was plenty faster than my friends accord V6 with 240 hp

it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out, but I'd bet the M even if it has less power will still be the car to beat
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      05-30-2007, 11:11 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
spec's lie though....

I had a E36 M3 with 240 hp, and it was plenty faster than my friends accord V6 with 240 hp

it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out, but I'd bet the M even if it has less power will still be the car to beat
We all know that BMW like to underrate their engines a bit. Plus the e36 M3 car had more aggressive gearing than the accord.

Make no mistake about it, the GTR will be the car to beat in this segment, excluding the Z06, of course. Nissan has historically made the engine and drivetrain in the GTRs very strong. Expect people this beast to make crazy power for cheap because of the turbos.
The M3 provides a well performing car with a great engine (historically), a great feel, back seats, and roundels
The M3 will be the German sports car to beat for ~60-70k (maybe Porsche will give the Caymen a lil more hp).
If all out performance is your priority for this price range, i think a GTR or Z06 will be the ones to beat.
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      05-30-2007, 11:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Agreed, and that's why I'm quite disappointed in the e92 M3 specs.

For one, the same price GT-R will give it a beat down in any performance measure and has just as much history and heritage.

The C63 will be a monster in a straight line and AMG is getting better in the handling department.

The CTS-V is being redesigned. They weren't too far off last go round.

The RS4 came out 2 years ago with virtually the same engine specs as the new M3.
I agree, the GTR will probably provide a beat down to every car in this price segment, minus the Z06.

I dont trust AMG to make a great sporty car yet.

The jury is still waiting for more evidence on the new CTS-V. But we do know that the engine will be a monster. Power will definitely not be lacking.

The RS4 carries around 400 more pounds than the M3 which is a TON! I'm willing to guess that the M3 V8 will really be putting out 440hp. I haven't compared the gearing of the M3 vs. RS4, but i'm going to assume that they are very similar. I dont doubt that the M3 will beat the RS4 in a straight line and in the twisties.
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      01-10-2008, 09:11 AM   #49
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So...I'm thinking that the M3 is going to pretty much be in direct competition with the 335i w/PROcede. I'm kinda curious as to why BMW would give the 335 so much...and not give the M3 any more...the stats are way too close. I think M3 sales won't be as high cuz it's gonna cost a lot more than a 335i and the performance gain is little, and as you e90ers have been talking the suspension upgrades are also plentiful for the 335 as well.

So....what the hell is BMW thinking? You don't want to compete against yourself, cuz when people can save money and buy the "cheaper" car, what's that do to your M3 sales?

If you've talked about it in detail on e90post or m3post...great, good for you, hit me with the and move on.
Hi the way I see it the M3 will always sell.... price isnt't a issue for many people...The more expense they peg it the more exclusive it will be...
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      01-10-2008, 01:43 PM   #50
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      01-10-2008, 03:34 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
I agree, the GTR will probably provide a beat down to every car in this price segment, minus the Z06.

I dont trust AMG to make a great sporty car yet.

The jury is still waiting for more evidence on the new CTS-V. But we do know that the engine will be a monster. Power will definitely not be lacking.

The RS4 carries around 400 more pounds than the M3 which is a TON! I'm willing to guess that the M3 V8 will really be putting out 440hp. I haven't compared the gearing of the M3 vs. RS4, but i'm going to assume that they are very similar. I dont doubt that the M3 will beat the RS4 in a straight line and in the twisties.
Where are you guys getting your info from, the RS4 weighs only 70Kgs more than the M3, that's only 155 lbs and almost all of that is the Quattro system and the remaining 45 lbs is the extra doors and steel roof. Also the M3 puts out 420hp no more, no less.

You are right that in the right hands the M3 is quicker on a twistie road, much quicker in fact but only in the right hands. In gear times I would say things will be very close indeed and in more than one or two tests the RS4 has actually beaten the M3 in both acceleration and handling but mostly it's the other way round.
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      01-10-2008, 07:55 PM   #52
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This is a pretty old thread, not sure why it was revived...
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      01-10-2008, 11:04 PM   #53
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each to his own you'll always have

335I die hards and M3 die hards, the ones that want either will buy what they want.

I think it's the challenge for the individual to mod a car to beat another and also an ego thing.
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      01-18-2008, 10:31 AM   #54
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M3 > 335, but it is a crime to not mod the 335 when BMW left so much on the table. Whether it's Dinan, procede or others, if you own a 335 the temptation is high.

M3>335
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      01-18-2008, 11:08 AM   #55
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you need to compare stock / stock, and modified / modified.

M3 E92 is brand new, and not a lot of tuners have already take care of its motor .. but of course it will come.

Simple mod, only 1 chip, not too expensive :

http://www.chiptuners.nl/

447 cv, 414 Nm, 301 km/h ^^
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      01-18-2008, 02:51 PM   #56
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you need to compare stock / stock, and modified / modified.

M3 E92 is brand new, and not a lot of tuners have already take care of its motor .. but of course it will come.

+100
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      01-20-2008, 10:44 AM   #57
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I am amazed that this argument rages on and on all over this web site and no doubt countless others. The two cars are different and on a whole appeal to different customers so why debate about which is better, their different.

When you compare stock to stock the decision is simple, the M3 is the more accomplish machine and quicker too, but when it comes to modifying then on the performance front the tables are turned and it's the 335i calling the shots, but even with all of this extra performance the 335i still is only a normal 3series, it will never carry to same respect as the M3 does.

But that respect comes at a price, the question is are you willing to pay for it.
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      01-20-2008, 01:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
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But that respect comes at a price, the question is are you willing to pay for it.
Respect? From whom? Poseurs? Badge-whores? Ignoramuses?

No thanks.
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      01-20-2008, 01:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
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you need to compare stock / stock, and modified / modified.

M3 E92 is brand new, and not a lot of tuners have already take care of its motor .. but of course it will come.

+100
No, you need to compare $ for $ The M3 is nothing more than a tuner 3 series.
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      01-20-2008, 03:30 PM   #60
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I wouldn't agree that an M3 is merely a tuned 3 series, I think if you read up about the differences you will find there is quite a lot of differences and this is not just the mechanics.

The respect I am talking about is the years of being top of it's sector against some tough competition and the present competition the new M3 is facing is it's toughest yet. The 335i is a brilliant machine but it's only as good as an Audi S5 when cost is taken out of the equation as it's only in the States that it's price is so different and in most areas it's isn't even as good as it. I will agree that for day to day driving it's engine feels stronger and more willing to accelerate and that when tuned it's the quicker in a straight line but even you can look at the figures and see that it's a full 20 seconds slower on the ring. Even giving the 335i the same tyres will only drop that to 15 seconds at best.

The M3 is a different animal, it's a true driver's car instead of being the best normal 3 series available, which by the way isn't a bad title to hold.
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      01-22-2008, 01:49 PM   #61
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Quote:
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I wouldn't agree that an M3 is merely a tuned 3 series, I think if you read up about the differences you will find there is quite a lot of differences and this is not just the mechanics.

The respect I am talking about is the years of being top of it's sector against some tough competition and the present competition the new M3 is facing is it's toughest yet. The 335i is a brilliant machine but it's only as good as an Audi S5 when cost is taken out of the equation as it's only in the States that it's price is so different and in most areas it's isn't even as good as it. I will agree that for day to day driving it's engine feels stronger and more willing to accelerate and that when tuned it's the quicker in a straight line but even you can look at the figures and see that it's a full 20 seconds slower on the ring. Even giving the 335i the same tyres will only drop that to 15 seconds at best.

The M3 is a different animal, it's a true driver's car instead of being the best normal 3 series available, which by the way isn't a bad title to hold.
Really, exactly what differences are not mechanical? Style? Nothing tuners won't address if you prefer. Heck, I can already even order a CF "power dome" hood!

At Kyalami, South Africa F1 certified track, the 335i Sedan was tested within 1 second lap times of the M3. 1 second. Because this track is at altitude, penalizing the M3 in power more than the 335i thus narrowing the stock-for-stock power gap, I take this to mean all the additional aspects of the M3...wider, better tires, LSD, EDC, M-badge, etc... all added up to 1 second. I also take this to mean that when I add a nice A/M suspension, power upgrades, wheel/tire upgrades, even without the LSD I would expect at least 1 second in improvement.

Nordschleife times are very HP dependent due to the high speed nature of the track, and of course tires. I'd be willing to bet that an equivalent power/tire/suspended 335i would at least = the M3. We will find out over the next year as track reports come rolling in.

I agree, World's best 3 series is a great title to have, because that also implies world's best sport sedan and practical sized coupe.

As far as your "animal" comment, I've been reading that over and over again in the 335i Forced Induction forum...right after someone adds one of the various power options available. I said it after moving to lightweight forged wheels, shedding 44 lbs of unsprung weight in the process. e46 M3 drivers said it to me at the track.
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      01-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #62
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you can stick enough crap on a honda civic and make it go faster than a f430

but i'll still take the f430
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      01-22-2008, 02:34 PM   #63
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you can stick enough crap on a honda civic and make it go faster than a f430

but i'll still take the f430
Does that Civic come from Ferrari, built on the same chassis, have the same interior, and built alongside F430's at the Ferrari Factory? Is it engineered by the same people from the same company?

If not, that analogy is dead. We aren't comparing a built-Mustang to an M3
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      01-22-2008, 03:08 PM   #64
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We will find out over the next year as track reports come rolling in.

M division=facade?
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      01-22-2008, 03:37 PM   #65
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stock for stock though the M3 is a better car

as far as $$ amounts in mods, and total cost of each car

we will have to wait and see, when all the cars start coming into the US and we can see them go against each other in 1/4 miles and tracks.
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      01-22-2008, 03:47 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack1526 View Post
specs are specs....................but i'm sure the power and drive is completely different. you have to consider every inch of the cars.........
+100000000

I own an e92 335i and I love it, don't get me wrong, but it ain't an M3. It ain't even an e46 M3......all the suspension upgrades in the world don't make it feel as planted. Just my humble opinion, but there is so much to an M like how the power is delivered and chassis balance and everything else that a pair of KW's and a tune can't make-up for.
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