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      01-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA///MES View Post
I was speaking in terms of my own personal experience with the install, my comments would most likely apply to others with a Gintani tune. Sorry I wasn't more specific but I don't spend all of my time posting on the forum. I also asked for Shiv and TMR to elaborate to clarify any discrepancies in what I posted. People who don't have the Vishnu kit most likely should ask more questions instead of sharp shooting everyone else's posts who actually own the kit. Again, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION! Take it or leave it.
Understood. Just want to be clear for those who, like myself, are interested in the product.
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      01-17-2012, 12:47 PM   #24
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So how do you market something without coming up with some sort of consistent results?
By providing actual testing results, not misinformed claims or doctored data. The results speak for themselves. They were all conducted on third party dynos right in front of the customers. The customers are gains well beyond to what they saw with their pre-existing tuning solution. And, on the dyno, their cars are out performing cars with more modifications. And on the road, even more so. So I think that's good enough for us at this point.

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      01-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
So how do you market something without coming up with some sort of consistent results?
If you study the Dyno Database, you will notice inconsistency in results of every tuner's tunes when tested on different dynos even when the dyno is of the same type (i.e., dynojet).
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      01-17-2012, 01:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
If you study the Dyno Database, you will notice inconsistency in results of every tuner's tunes when tested on different dynos even when the dyno is of the same type (i.e., dynojet).
I have no issue with different dynos yielding different results. The issue to me is that the product is being marketed with these inconsistencies. How do we know that it's just a dyno issue when the manufacturer of this setup doesn't have any data with his products all being done on the same machine? And not to mention the differences in the bolt ons that are being used? To me it seems smartest to install the setup on a bone stock 6MT and DCT cars on the same machine and shop and show what his setup does. Just my opinion I guess. Maybe no one else cares about this.
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      01-17-2012, 02:01 PM   #27
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Loving this system in my M3.

Took it to a track day and pretty much drove it as hard as I possibly good and didn't get any errors or anything.

Car pulls extremely strong and can definitely notice it on the "butt dyno"

Day to day street driving is nice also, I'm a pretty aggressive driver so I like the extra little pep this system provides

Also, I dunno if it's my imagination or what but I feel I got much better gas mileage when driving down to LA a couple months ago....went way further than I usually do without having to fill up and I was going pretty fast the whole way down.

The other little perks of the procede are super cool too, like how it shows you when meth is being sprayed and the shift light.
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      01-17-2012, 02:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I have no issue with different dynos yielding different results. The issue to me is that the product is being marketed with these inconsistencies. How do we know that it's just a dyno issue when the manufacturer of this setup doesn't have any data with his products all being done on the same machine? And not to mention the differences in the bolt ons that are being used? To me it seems smartest to install the setup on a bone stock 6MT and DCT cars on the same machine and shop and show what his setup does. Just my opinion I guess. Maybe no one else cares about this.
My job here is to present data that I've collected over the past few months of testing. Not to convince anyone of anything they don't want to believe. Anyone who has spent the last 15+ years testing different cars in different conditions on different dynos knows better than to expect perfectly consistent nominal results across the board. The end goal is to get a car to run at it's full safe potential, not to appease ones desire to see everything neatly fall into place in terms of power gains. But your concern is noted. Thank you.

Best Regards
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      01-17-2012, 02:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoeb@WheelDude.com View Post
Loving this system in my M3.

Took it to a track day and pretty much drove it as hard as I possibly good and didn't get any errors or anything.

Car pulls extremely strong and can definitely notice it on the "butt dyno"

Day to day street driving is nice also, I'm a pretty aggressive driver so I like the extra little pep this system provides

Also, I dunno if it's my imagination or what but I feel I got much better gas mileage when driving down to LA a couple months ago....went way further than I usually do without having to fill up and I was going pretty fast the whole way down.

The other little perks of the procede are super cool too, like how it shows you when meth is being sprayed and the shift light.
Shift light? Please explain.
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      01-17-2012, 02:06 PM   #30
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Nice!
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      01-17-2012, 02:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
My job here is to present data that I've collected over the past few months of testing. Not to convince anyone of anything they don't want to believe. Anyone who has spent the last 15+ years testing different cars in different conditions on different dynos knows better than to expect perfectly consistent nominal results across the board. The end goal is to get a car to run at it's full safe potential, not to appease ones desire to see everything neatly fall into place in terms of power gains. But your concern is noted. Thank you.

Best Regards
shiv
Shiv, have you been able to try the system with an under drive pulley yet? Have we consistently crossed the 400whp plateau?
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      01-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dodge2Dub View Post
Shift light? Please explain.
oh i forgot to mention that. In the Command Center menu, you can set up a shift light to flash the turn-signal indicators (not the actual turn signals of course) when you reach the desired RPM threshold.
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      01-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge2Dub View Post
Shift light? Please explain.
There's an option to turn on a "shift light" in the procede since manuals dont have one (I don't see the logic in that by BMW LOL)

Basically it flashes the turn signal lights real quick when you hit a certain RPM (user defined)
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      01-17-2012, 02:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dodge2Dub View Post
Shiv, have you been able to try the system with an under drive pulley yet? Have we consistently crossed the 400whp plateau?
I have an undedrive pulley installed in one of the test cars but I have yet to visit the same dyno where it made 388whp sans pulley. Maybe it will cross 400whp with it. I can't say until we do it.

We did make a bit over 400whp actual (uncorrected) on another test car in LA on the dyno at EAS. And all that car had was a cat-back and high flow cats. Stock intake, stock filter, no pulley, etc,. STD corrected was 397whp or thereabouts.

So it really just depends on what dyno you use an how it reads compared to others. I'm quite sure the first car (with a lower nominal power number) pulls harder than the car with the higher nominal reading. It would be nice to test them on the same dyno but the owners (and their cars) live 400 miles apart

Shiv
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      01-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #35
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The one thing that is consistant is proven gains over stock. This is the initial release and will only get better over time (free firmware/map updates). The Procede/Meth combo is hugely successful and documented in the 335i forums.
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      01-17-2012, 02:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I have an undedrive pulley installed in one of the test cars but I have yet to visit the same dyno where it made 388whp sans pulley. Maybe it will cross 400whp with it. I can't say until we do it.

We did make a bit over 400whp actual (uncorrected) on another test car in LA on the dyno at EAS. And all that car had was a cat-back and high flow cats. Stock intake, stock filter, no pulley, etc,. STD corrected was 397whp or thereabouts.

So it really just depends on what dyno you use an how it reads compared to others. I'm quite sure the first car (with a lower nominal power number) pulls harder than the car with the higher nominal reading. It would be nice to test them on the same dyno but the owners (and their cars) live 400 miles apart

Shiv
I'm sure I can make it happen next time I'm in socal
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      01-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
oh i forgot to mention that. In the Command Center menu, you can set up a shift light to flash the turn-signal indicators (not the actual turn signals of course) when you reach the desired RPM threshold.
Love that, even with DCT shift lights!
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      01-17-2012, 02:29 PM   #38
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The Tech,
I understand your concerns man. I was skeptical at first but after just driving the car after the install is what sold it for me. I also wanted the no BS answers but the whole tuning thing seems to be more of an art than a science just because of all the variables. One thing I can say for certain is that you will no BS notice the difference in power and overall performance of the car. Shiv's tuning abilities and the methanol injection product make a world of difference and have made me and others believers. Take care and good luck.
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      01-17-2012, 02:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA///MES View Post
The Tech,
I understand your concerns man. I was skeptical at first but after just driving the car after the install is what sold it for me. I also wanted the no BS answers but the whole tuning thing seems to be more of an art than a science just because of all the variables. One thing I can say for certain is that you will no BS notice the difference in power and overall performance of the car. Shiv's tuning abilities and the methanol injection product make a world of difference and have made me and others believers. Take care and good luck.
Thanks, I appreciate your response.

No offense was meant against Shiv but his responses make me feel like his product and methods are just above refute.
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      01-17-2012, 04:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I have no issue with different dynos yielding different results. The issue to me is that the product is being marketed with these inconsistencies. How do we know that it's just a dyno issue when the manufacturer of this setup doesn't have any data with his products all being done on the same machine? And not to mention the differences in the bolt ons that are being used? To me it seems smartest to install the setup on a bone stock 6MT and DCT cars on the same machine and shop and show what his setup does. Just my opinion I guess. Maybe no one else cares about this.
He is just being straightforward and sharing all the results. I am happier seeing all the results than one example so the one example can be consistent with itself. He is not trying to sell you this x-pipe, pulley, filter or rear exhaust or that x-pipe, pulley, filter or rear exhaust. He has shown that his tune adds power no matter what x-pipe, pulley, filter or rear exhaust you have. And it does this on different cars and on different dynos, with before tune and after tune testing. I am not sure how you could have any better testing.
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      01-17-2012, 04:51 PM   #41
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Shiv question....

So how does this work with a blown m3??

Just piggybacks for example ess's tune?
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      01-17-2012, 05:27 PM   #42
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Shiv question....

So how does this work with a blown m3??

Just piggybacks for example ess's tune?
With a supercharged m3, you will need to keep your DME flash since it accounts for injector scaling and bypass valve functionality. In this case, you'd simply add the Procede/PWM meth combo on top of it. Just running the Procede in pass-thru mode (no tuning changes) but with meth spraying, you will likely see 20-30whp gains depending on how the engine was running with the original tune. Then by adjusting the ignition map to get the engine to operate closer to where it wants to operate, you can easily pick up another 20-30whp. We have maps for such an application.

This approach is a safer/more effective way to adding power compared to simply swapping pulleys and running more boost.
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      01-17-2012, 06:27 PM   #43
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So on an ESS set up we are going to have to run the meth lines all the way down to the filter in the front bumper?
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      01-17-2012, 06:38 PM   #44
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So on an ESS set up we are going to have to run the meth lines all the way down to the filter in the front bumper?
Nope. You would mount the nozzles just downstream of the blower outlet (see attached pic)

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