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      01-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #89
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Being so successful in their current engines ...They can make a amazing supercar !
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      01-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
When is an //M engine an //M engine in your book?
Why is the S62 questionable? Because it doesn't rev high enough? The stock E30 M3 engine only reached 7000rpm as well. Just like a N54/55....

I never stated the N54 is an //M engine in the first place, it's a better engine than many of the //M engines for sure, but not an //M engine, agreed. I stated that the 1M is a true 'M'. 100%.

But to each their own. I'd choose the 1M in a heartbeat vs the Z4M, because it's not only faster on a track/bends, but in a straight line as well. What's the fuzz? I don't care about //M engine or not. The engine does its work very very well. THAT's what counts. It's the whole package. And the thrills/experience of it.

Cheers
Robin
I don't think either of you have any sort of authority in deciding what is an M car and what isn't that... that's for BMW and the M Group to decide. The company's priorities have shifted over time so their cars have evolved as well but saying that some of the vehicles they created aren't true M cars is completely absurd. They define what an M car is... no one here, you're the consumer.
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      01-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
I don't think either of you have any sort of authority in deciding what is an M car and what isn't that... that's for BMW and the M Group to decide. The company's priorities have shifted over time so their cars have evolved as well but saying that some of the vehicles they created aren't true M cars is completely absurd. They define what an M car is... no one here, you're the consumer.
Dude, did you eat paint chips as a child? Clearly the Z4 M Coupe Brigade is the self annointed arbiter of cool. They have spoken, now move along.

PS, your 1M sucks! Dammit, and you don't even have one!
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      01-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Dude, did you eat paint chips as a child? Clearly the Z4 M Coupe Brigade is the self annointed arbiter of cool. They have spoken, now move along.

PS, your 1M sucks! Dammit, and you don't even have one!
haha, I'm sensing sarcasm
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      01-05-2012, 01:42 PM   #93
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haha, I'm sensing sarcasm
Yeah, but I have a fake M motor and the poor man's version of a completely fake M car, so take it all with a grain of salt. I don't dare to tread on their hallowed turf.

Frankly, it's a gd miracle I can sleep at night.
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      01-05-2012, 01:42 PM   #94
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LOL
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      01-05-2012, 01:45 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yeah, but I have a fake M motor and the poor man's version of a completely fake M car, so take it all with a grain of salt. I don't dare to tread on their hallowed turf.

Frankly, it's a gd miracle I can sleep at night.
Yep, that's pretty much all M3 V8 owners... and before that it was all S54 m3 owners...
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      01-05-2012, 04:37 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
When is an //M engine an //M engine in your book?
Why is the S62 questionable? Because it doesn't rev high enough? The stock E30 M3 engine only reached 7000rpm as well. Just like a N54/55....

I never stated the N54 is an //M engine in the first place, it's a better engine than many of the //M engines for sure, but not an //M engine, agreed. I stated that the 1M is a true 'M'. 100%.

But to each their own. I'd choose the 1M in a heartbeat vs the Z4M, because it's not only faster on a track/bends, but in a straight line as well. What's the fuzz? I don't care about //M engine or not. The engine does its work very very well. THAT's what counts. It's the whole package. And the thrills/experience of it.

Cheers
Robin
An M engine is an engine built by M from the ground up, not scrounged from others (or simply JUST an engine from then regular line). Although some of the older engines fit that bill of being "scrounged" the dynamics were modified enough that they couldn't really be considered just modified XXXengines. Not talking just boring and stroking but radical changes in head design and breathing. IMO the only thing that should be "donated" to an M engine is a block casting.

And no, a 1m wont track faster then a z4mcoupe, and yes I'm sure you have plenty of fastest lap times you could cite saying otherwise, but in sustained lapping it wont happen, especially stock for stock. I had one, I know.

Edit: Actually LOL at the z4M being 3 seconds faster around the ring on narrower 2 generation old continental tires. Not that it actually means anything. But I bet the 1m can't even get around the 8 minute course before hitting serious IAT decays.
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      01-06-2012, 02:50 AM   #97
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^^^^
I won't show you the laptimes of five or six tracks of both cars, you'd only get a bit embarrased.

How do they say it? Ignorance is bliss, or something like that.


You having driven a Z4 M on track and you know rightaway how a 1M behaves ....wow.

NS is a draw , fyi 8:15 both.

Anyway. Keep on living in the past, my friend.

Best quote so far:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Dude, did you eat paint chips as a child? Clearly the Z4 M Coupe Brigade is the self annointed arbiter of cool. They have spoken, now move along.

PS, your 1M sucks! Dammit, and you don't even have one!


Cheers
Robin

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      01-06-2012, 07:43 AM   #98
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Personally, I think this whole "my M car is better then your M car' is nuts anyway. The Z4M for it's time is an excellent car. The 1M (or is it the si135M?) is a great car for the 1 series and IF I wanted a coupe that had room for 4 (well, sort of room for 4) and could afford that 1M over the 135 it would be hard to pass up. Latest Roundal has a blurb in there that they are thinking about doing a Z4M. Saying that what fits in the F30 engine bay should fit in the Z4 engine bay. I say to them "bring it" and let the fun begin!

I'm looking forward to what the M "GANG" for BMW schemes up and produces in the future, and think the past (yes, even the most recent) cars show good promise for what is to come.

As someone that reads many of the threads here, normally there are some really good discussions from both sides of a topic. This one just is starting to read like a shouting match that has lost it's train of thought.
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      01-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
^^^^
I won't show you the laptimes of five or six tracks of both cars, you'd only get a bit embarrased.

How do they say it? Ignorance is bliss, or something like that.


You having driven a Z4 M on track and you know rightaway how a 1M behaves ....wow.

NS is a draw , fyi 8:15 both.

Anyway. Keep on living in the past, my friend.

Best quote so far:




Cheers
Robin
No z4m did 8:12 actually, on 2 generation old continentals, not wider grippier ps2s. Like I said it doesn't mean much even though both drivers were professional since the conditions were probably different in some way, but you would think with the handicap it would be closer. But like I said, I know why, it cant even make the 8 minute journey without huge IAT decays, that's if it hasn't even hot lapped before then.

I know how the 1M drives on track because I drive a Z4M I know how it handles on track because I've driven one on track how. Or did you mean I know how a 1M drives because unlike you I HAVE driven a z4m on track?

It drives nicely actually, I never said it didn't, but it rolls way too much for me and the transitions are slow, but still drives very good for a stock car. The difference is what happens after a few hot laps.

When you have compared traqmate data and actually driven both cars on the track, get back to me. Until then you really have no business arguing.



Edit: I should also note that I EXPECTED the 1m to have a faster ring time, it is capable of pretty fast "qualifying" however, it does not do sustained lapping, and 8 minutes was clearly too much for it.
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      01-06-2012, 12:20 PM   #100
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Anyway.

My friend Andre in a stock 1M vs a tuned CSL:


Laptimes just fyi
Nordschleife:
Z4M 8:15
1M 8:15
both driven by Horst von Saurma

Hockenheim Kurz:
Z4M 1:17.2 1M 1:14.1

Bedford Autodrome:
Z4M 1:27.1
1M 1:25.9

Virginia
Z4M 3:11.7
1M 3:06.6

Cadwell Park:
Z4M 1:45.4
1M 1:41.9

Sophia Loren once was the lady to go after, now it's time for Megan Fox/Jessica Alba/Olivia Wilde.

Cheers
Robin who has driven on Assen Moto GP, Nordschleife, Papenburg(Sachsenring), Zandvoort etc. Also driftdays etc.

From 2:25 that's me, 2002 E46 M3:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/fddr...-dri_24006.htm
^^^^
The CSL was owned by the father of my best friend, but Andre drove it @ Papenburg back then.


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      01-06-2012, 12:30 PM   #101
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But hey, this thread is going to get annoying. Maybe I'm part of it, dunno, sorry, if so, I just stated some facts.

I 'm out of here.
There are nicer threads to get involved in.

Cheers
Robin

PS: ONTOPIC about why BMW doesn't want to build a SUPERCAR in the first place.

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      01-06-2012, 04:09 PM   #102
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When you have compared traqmate data and actually driven both cars on the track, get back to me. Until then you really have no business arguing.
This.
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      01-06-2012, 04:53 PM   #103
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Posting googled results really doesn't mean much, like I said when you first brought it up. Most of those times are of unknown providence. The times from one test that is actually fairly controlled you did nothing but prove my point. You should probably review the testing you use before you use it to try and back yourself up, do you even realize the difference in tires that were used and what sort of difference that makes? Both in size and manufacturer? I'm not sure that you do, I'm not sure you even drive on tracks, but I do know you haven't even driven a Z4M which is why were are even arguing.

In addition, a poorer handling car can easily out lap a better handling one, just look at the XMs, not that that's whats happening here, but it's not necessarily something to boast about.
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      01-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #104
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The day I sat in my Z4M a few years ago....I knew something was VERY different with this car. I had to choose from a z06, a new Cobra, and a modified 135i......the Z was exactly the right everything. my .02
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      01-06-2012, 08:33 PM   #105
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No need for BMW to produce one. Even if they do, i will pick Ferrari or Lamborghini over the BMW supercar anyway (that is if i can afford them in the first place of course.)
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      01-07-2012, 01:32 AM   #106
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he is being realistic. but common bmw, still make a supercar so we have something to look up to.
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