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      01-04-2012, 01:12 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona View Post
Careful buddy, there are a lot of z4 converts here that will make you wonder why you bought a 1M. I mean you wanna touch on semantics about what defines a sports car and all which is fine and dandy if you wanna dress up your paragraph to pass it off as a well constructed thought. But the same thing happens when you pop the hood on your 1M. You realize that your engine, just like you paragraph, may seem well dressed, but its not the real thing...its just not a real M.
So in the disscussion of dedicated sports car semantics, you should pop your own hood, and then take a look at the s54 that sits inside these roadsters (which are convertibles) and tell me which one is a dedicated M.
He is somewhat right about convertibles, you ca still have a convertible sports car, but convertibles take heavy points against them to be considered a sports car.


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Originally Posted by kyleb350 View Post
Which definition are you going by? I would have to disagree with you on cars like the Vette, Viper, and Boxter. They may not be super, hyper, or race cars, but they are sports cars (especially at their price points) and designed to go fast
Boxter I might disagree on, It's made a little too soft and unsporty for the guy that just wants to own a porsche to drive around town.
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      01-04-2012, 01:13 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona View Post
Careful buddy, there are a lot of z4 converts here that will make you wonder why you bought a 1M. I mean you wanna touch on semantics about what defines a sports car and all which is fine and dandy if you wanna dress up your paragraph to pass it off as a well constructed thought. But the same thing happens when you pop the hood on your 1M. You realize that your engine, just like you paragraph, may seem well dressed, but its not the real thing...its just not a real M.
So in the disscussion of dedicated sports car semantics, you should pop your own hood, and then take a look at the s54 that sits inside these roadsters (which are convertibles) and tell me which one is a dedicated M.

Are you seriously contending the 1M is not a true M? Wow. Nothing more to say to your lack of credibility.
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      01-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Are you seriously contending the 1M is not a true M? Wow. Nothing more to say to your lack of credibility.
.
It has an n54 engine in it that can't even properly hot lap for an hour, and was not in any way developed by the M division.

Did you seriously think it's a true M car?

True M cars simply borrow the chassis of the car they inhabit, usually even modifying that. Usually even the suspension is even heavily modified.

You car has barely any true operating difference from its donor car. It's a badge.
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      01-04-2012, 01:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
You are defining a RACE CAR not a sports car. A sports car is a road car built with performance in mind, while not heavily compromising to make the car utilitarian. IE a minivan can never be a sports car.
That is your interpretation of what I said. I am not talking about a race car for the track with the seats ripped out and support beams in back. I am talking about a road-ready speed and performance focused car that of uncompromised design. You are couching this standard with your "not heavily compromising" language.

A convertible is a compromise. I'm sorry to break that to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
If you think a corvette is not a sports car, then you are simply delusional and have no idea what the definition of a sports car is, so clearly discussing any of this with you is pointless.

Ok. I'll ignore the delusional comment and highlight your point regarding the Corvette. This may be the best litmus test to illustrate my point.

Let's break this down:

1) The Corvette is a sports car.
2) The Corvette convertible is a lesser version of the Corvette in terms of rigidity, balance and weight. Its first priority is not to performance, but to let the wind blow through your hair. A nice benefit when touring.

1) There is no Z4 hardtop offering presently, and thus a vacuum in the BMW line.
2) The convertible Z4 is a lesser version of that vacuum.

It is the vacuum I take issue with... not the merits of the very nice Z4 convertible.

Are you comprendo-ing me now?
.
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      01-04-2012, 01:48 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
^ Well said m630
BMW used to occupy a sort of middle ground between a boring luxury brand like Lexus and an exciting enthusiast brand like Porsche.

Nowadays BMW just looks like it wants to be Lexus of Germany.

This is not exactly right. Toyota's new CEO is a sportscar enthusiast, and thanks to him today we have the worlds top supercar, the Lexus LF-A, and the worlds entry level lightweight sportscar, the Toytoa GT-86. And this is only the beginning. If the succes goes well thanks to the true enthusiasts, then some other cars may get added like MR-2 and Supra. The new Lexus GS is very promissing, so as the upcoming Lexus SC. And the Lexus IS-F has had some very good updates. And what happens if the next IS-F will still keep a NA V8 with D4-S when the next M3 get a turboed I6?

So to correct what you said, BMW wants to be like what Lexus was, and Lexus is becoming the new BMW.
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      01-04-2012, 01:53 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
It has an n54 engine in it that can't even properly hot lap for an hour, and was not in any way developed by the M division.

Did you seriously think it's a true M car?

True M cars simply borrow the chassis of the car they inhabit, usually even modifying that. Usually even the suspension is even heavily modified.

You car has barely any true operating difference from its donor car. It's a badge.

I now see where you're coming from... you're lacking in knowledge and awareness.
There's a word for that, but it would just be too harsh.
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      01-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
That is your interpretation of what I said. I am not talking about a race car for the track with the seats ripped out and support beams in back. I am talking about a road-ready speed and performance focused car that of uncompromised design. You are couching this standard with your "not heavily compromising" language.

A convertible is a compromise. I'm sorry to break that to you.





Ok. I'll ignore the delusional comment and highlight your point regarding the Corvette. This may be the best litmus test to illustrate my point.

Let's break this down:

1) The Corvette is a sports car.
2) The Corvette convertible is a lesser version of the Corvette in terms of rigidity, balance and weight. Its first priority is not to performance, but to let the wind blow through your hair. A nice benefit when touring.

1) There is no Z4 hardtop offering presently, and thus a vacuum in the BMW line.
2) The convertible Z4 is a lesser version of that vacuum.

It is the vacuum I take issue with... not the merits of the very nice Z4 convertible.

Are you comprendo-ing me now?
.
You do realize that the 1M is really a .5M right? That comment about being able to rip anyone a new orafice with your 1 series body kit was way over zealous. Especially for a gentlemen such as yourself on Zpost for that matter....and aside from trying to win an argument with the whole away team factor, your Turbo can fit in side O-cha's. that being said, you should politely excuse yourself from a thread that involves M cars if you plan on anymore further denouncement from your side.
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      01-04-2012, 02:00 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Let's break this down:

1) The Corvette is a sports car.
2) The Corvette convertible is a lesser version of the Corvette in terms of rigidity, balance and weight. Its first priority is not to performance, but to let the wind blow through your hair. A nice benefit when touring.

1) There is no Z4 hardtop offering presently, and thus a vacuum in the BMW line.
2) The convertible Z4 is a lesser version of that vacuum.

It is the vacuum I take issue with... not the merits of the very nice Z4 convertible.

.
You said corvette, not corvette convertible, you said viper, not viper convertible.

We agree on these points, with the exception that I still believe a sports car can have compromises, the simple fact that it is built to be road legal is a compromise itself and what differentiates it from a race car. The difference is where you draw the line on how much compromise makes it no longer a sports car.

By your definition any car with sound deadening is not a sports car, or carpet or anything else. You said completely uncompromising, by definition a sports car must compromise.

But I don't feel like discussing this further with you, it's a dumb argument.
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      01-04-2012, 02:05 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
You said corvette, not corvette convertible, you said viper, not viper convertible.

We agree on these points, with the exception that I still believe a sports car can have compromises, the simple fact that it is built to be road legal is a compromise itself and what differentiates it from a race car. The difference is where you draw the line on how much compromise makes it no longer a sports car.

By your definition any car with sound deadening is not a sports car, or carpet or anything else. You said completely uncompromising, by definition a sports car must compromise.

But I don't feel like discussing this further with you, it's a dumb argument.

You're right about that. The list was of convertibles versions of those models. My bad. I corrected the original list. Of course, the hardtop versions are true sports cars.

I also agree that this argument is played out. Good sparring with you.
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      01-04-2012, 02:11 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona View Post
You do realize that the 1M is really a .5M right? That comment about being able to rip anyone a new orafice with your 1 series body kit was way over zealous. Especially for a gentlemen such as yourself on Zpost for that matter....and aside from trying to win an argument with the whole away team factor, your Turbo can fit in side O-cha's. that being said, you should politely excuse yourself from a thread that involves M cars if you plan on anymore further denouncement from your side.
Er... we're not on Zpost. We're on M3Post. Laughably talking about Z4's and 1M's.

And for the record my colorful language was merely a metaphor and not a name-call in any way.
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      01-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #77
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      01-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Er... we're not on Zpost. We're on M3Post. Laughably talking about Z4's and 1M's.

And for the record my colorful language was merely a metaphor and not a name-call in any way.
.
You were the first to gloat about ripping new "@##holes" with your "modded" 1 badge...so relax.

N54 engine....thats all Im saying.
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      01-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona View Post
N54 engine....thats all Im saying.
All that needs saying.
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      01-04-2012, 03:39 PM   #80
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Note to self, be glad you never bought a Z4 M Coupe, you'd be touchy...
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      01-04-2012, 04:06 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Note to self, be glad you never bought a Z4 M Coupe, you'd be touchy...
Nah... You'd be better informed
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      01-05-2012, 03:21 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona View Post
Careful buddy, there are a lot of z4 converts here that will make you wonder why you bought a 1M. I mean you wanna touch on semantics about what defines a sports car and all which is fine and dandy if you wanna dress up your paragraph to pass it off as a well constructed thought. But the same thing happens when you pop the hood on your 1M. You realize that your engine, just like you paragraph, may seem well dressed, but its not the real thing...its just not a real M.
So in the disscussion of dedicated sports car semantics, you should pop your own hood, and then take a look at the s54 that sits inside these roadsters (which are convertibles) and tell me which one is a dedicated M.
The 1M.
I've had an E46 M3 for 3 years(S54 engine), I've driven a Z4M, I've had a E90 M3 V8 for two years, and I've driven Advevo's 1M.

If you find one , go and drive a stock E30 M3, feel the crisp steering, the fine roadholding and the lame engine.

After the E46 M3 I got a 335i E90 6Mt, graet engine as well. Then I drove the Z4M to go back to that //M feeling I was hoping for. I won't do that again, it was a cultureshock. The highrevving is great, but the car also needs to accellerate fast(er) than that 335i, and it didn't actually. (My N54 335i also had 330/340HP stock I guess) .

Anyway, you know that BMW came out with the 2002 Turbo and the BMW Turbo prototype(1972) YEARS before the M1(great car, BMW's true supercar) and E30 M3 came out?

BMW always has been a turbo pioneer. And it shows with the 1M. It's a true M just as the F10 M5 is.

I've ordered the F30 335i 6MT, but if I didn't have any kids there would be a 1M in my garage. It's a blast.

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      01-05-2012, 04:28 AM   #83
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2008 M Coupe FTW
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      01-05-2012, 05:44 AM   #84
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There are two atmo M cars I really love. A M3 CSL and a 1999/2000 M Coupé.

The problem is, they are already exhibited here at the Rijksmuseum near Rembrandt's Nightwatch
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      01-05-2012, 08:28 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by SmartBastard View Post
2008 M Coupe FTW
exactly
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      01-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
The 1M.
I've had an E46 M3 for 3 years(S54 engine), I've driven a Z4M, I've had a E90 M3 V8 for two years, and I've driven Advevo's 1M.

If you find one , go and drive a stock E30 M3, feel the crisp steering, the fine roadholding and the lame engine.

After the E46 M3 I got a 335i E90 6Mt, graet engine as well. Then I drove the Z4M to go back to that //M feeling I was hoping for. I won't do that again, it was a cultureshock. The highrevving is great, but the car also needs to accellerate fast(er) than that 335i, and it didn't actually. (My N54 335i also had 330/340HP stock I guess) .

Anyway, you know that BMW came out with the 2002 Turbo and the BMW Turbo prototype(1972) YEARS before the M1(great car, BMW's true supercar) and E30 M3 came out?

BMW always has been a turbo pioneer. And it shows with the 1M. It's a true M just as the F10 M5 is.

I've ordered the F30 335i 6MT, but if I didn't have any kids there would be a 1M in my garage. It's a blast.
Do you honestly think the N54 is an M engine? Let me add that some past M cars DON'T have true M engines either. The US s52 for instance, what a joke that is, yes I just eliminated all e36M3s (except with euro s50 engine) from true M status. The S62 in the e39 M5, is questionable as well.

There's ///M cars, then there's "M" cars, then there's the 1M. Sorry.
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      01-05-2012, 01:14 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Do you honestly think the N54 is an M engine? Let me add that some past M cars DON'T have true M engines either. The US s52 for instance, what a joke that is, yes I just eliminated all e36M3s (except with euro s50 engine) from true M status. The S62 in the e39 M5, is questionable as well.

There's ///M cars, then there's "M" cars, then there's the 1M. Sorry.
When is an //M engine an //M engine in your book?
Why is the S62 questionable? Because it doesn't rev high enough? The stock E30 M3 engine only reached 7000rpm as well. Just like a N54/55....

I never stated the N54 is an //M engine in the first place, it's a better engine than many of the //M engines for sure, but not an //M engine, agreed. I stated that the 1M is a true 'M'. 100%.

But to each their own. I'd choose the 1M in a heartbeat vs the Z4M, because it's not only faster on a track/bends, but in a straight line as well. What's the fuzz? I don't care about //M engine or not. The engine does its work very very well. THAT's what counts. It's the whole package. And the thrills/experience of it.

Cheers
Robin
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      01-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #88
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Back on topic:

BMW is not loosing the plot cause they don't have a supercar, it is loosing the plot because its main stream cars are going soft. The sad irony is now they will probably need a supercar to maintain some faux "sporty" image like some other manufacturer's.
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