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      12-30-2011, 07:08 PM   #23
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BMW needs a supercar? Why? Are there people out there who've never heard of BMW?

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      12-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #24
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BMW is becoming a little bit sad... their definition of supercar is the i8 lol.
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      12-30-2011, 09:15 PM   #25
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This is saddening. It's unacceptable that a performance brand would say such a thing.
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      12-31-2011, 12:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMA Doc View Post

The good news is that I can't think of a BMW that isn't designed for the joy of driving. I tend to agree with them that they don't really need a loss leader of a supercar because all of their cars can be a blast.

There isn't an Accord to be found in the BMW stable. That being said, Veyron gives Volkswagon prestige. Just think what a Veyron-type vehicle could do to push BMW into the stratosphere.
Correct me if i'm wrong but the Veyron losses money for VW every time they make one. BMW is smart by putting the R&D into existing vehicle like M-series & now electric/hybrid i-8.
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      12-31-2011, 01:27 PM   #27
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Correct me if i'm wrong but the Veyron losses money for VW every time they make one. BMW is smart by putting the R&D into existing vehicle like M-series & now electric/hybrid i-8.
The Veyron makes no money at all for VW it is the automotive equivalent of an ego trip. Also if any Saudi Prince etc wrecks their Veyron then VW repair it out of their own pocket.

The R8 makes money because it is a Parts-bin car when you strip it down, mechanically it is basically a Lamborghini Gallardo.

Mercedes-Benz will now start making money now that the SLS AMG family is growing with the Roadster.

The BMW i8 will be revolutionary not only in styling direction and drivetrain.
It will also be a sports car that will give you performance of a sports car with fuel consumption of under 100MPG.

As BMW states the i8 is the most progressive sports car and is the sign that sports cars can remain relevant in a future of legislation.
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      12-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #28
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Hell. I'd settle for a dedicated BMW SPORTS CAR.

Z4=Roadster
1M=Sports Coupe
M3=GT Sports Saloon
M5=Executive Sports Sedan
M6=Supposed flagship of the M monicker, but big and heavy.
Z4M Coupe

Nah, I know it's still not it, I'm all up for a super car

And yes if I remember right VW looses like 1mil on each Veyron they sell
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      12-31-2011, 02:10 PM   #29
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The Veyron makes no money at all for VW it is the automotive equivalent of an ego trip.
Sure but it's a great marketing tool. BMW's bread and butter are the 3 & 5 series. The hype generated by a supercar is far better than some lame ad campaign on TV. It also helps to refocus the brand in the eyes of the consumer.

Personally I can't believe BMW has held out this long while its rivals have all created supercars.
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      12-31-2011, 02:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James T. Kirk View Post
Hell. I'd settle for a dedicated BMW SPORTS CAR.

Z4=Roadster
1M=Sports Coupe
M3=GT Sports Saloon
M5=Executive Sports Sedan
M6=Supposed flagship of the M monicker, but big and heavy.
Z4MCoupe, as much of a dedicated sports car as any other brand has, more so than probably half of them.
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      12-31-2011, 04:16 PM   #31
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The Veyron makes no money at all for VW it is the automotive equivalent of an ego trip. Also if any Saudi Prince etc wrecks their Veyron then VW repair it out of their own pocket.
VW repairs them for free?... really??? no wonder vw is losing money.
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      12-31-2011, 04:37 PM   #32
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Please !!! a brand like BMW needs a supercar for sure ...I'm sure they will make good profit out of it look to the SLS, Merc is selling them like hot cakes around the world and they even decided to go further with SLS black series
Comooon BMW M5 is a fast sedan not anything more !
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      12-31-2011, 08:52 PM   #33
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Sure but it's a great marketing tool. BMW's bread and butter are the 3 & 5 series. The hype generated by a supercar is far better than some lame ad campaign on TV. It also helps to refocus the brand in the eyes of the consumer.

Personally I can't believe BMW has held out this long while its rivals have all created supercars.
I fail to understand why such a concept is needed to project image?
BMW has no need to project its image because a BMW customer already knows the product , what it is? , what it does? and how it does it?.
BMW, when you think about it, lead their respective segments.

The new 1er for example - has appeal because it takes the compact hatch and does something differently that is why when compared to the timeframe in September 2004 to Jan 2004 the launch in September 2011 to Jan 2012 has eclipsed the E87 model with the Sportline being the more popular option.
The 1er currently leads its respective segment.

The new 3er has once again demonstrated that leadership and domination is not because of the badge.
The 5er is the exceptional choice in the executive segment.

The new X3 dominates the Premium Entry SUV class. The X1 continues to dominate the Compact class and that is without being available in the US market. The X5 which will see a replacement in around two years still leads the segment. And with M. The 1M Coupe has sold out in nearly every country because it is simply a great product. And the new M5 has shown that reduced capacity can prove to be an even better car. And then you have the M3 , which competitors say "they" have an M3 killer and yet we still wait for the supposed massacre they promised.

So why should there be an emphasis on image?
When your products literally speak for themselves on a wide range of abilities. That is image and you do not need an unprofitable vanity project to help a BMW stand out because it already does.

The BMW i8 will be sufficient because it is all about desirability , innovation and fresh thinking for a future that could become apparent with compromise.
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      12-31-2011, 09:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I fail to understand why such a concept is needed to project image?
BMW has no need to project its image because a BMW customer already knows the product , what it is? , what it does? and how it does it?.
BMW, when you think about it, lead their respective segments.
So you believe that tv commercials and magazine ads are pointless? After all, everyone already knows the brand so why waste the money advertising...
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      01-01-2012, 03:32 AM   #35
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Quote:
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When your products literally speak for themselves on a wide range of abilities. That is image and you do not need an unprofitable vanity project to help a BMW stand out because it already does.
I agree.

For BMW to divert resources away from developing as many class-leading cars as possible to a supercar which will likely be least effective as a marketing tool than that of its competitors makes little sense. As scott pointed out, the focus on product development has competitors at least a few years behind in most model classes.


Let porsche do their thing. The new 991 should distance itself significantly from any potential competition for at least the next few years. Anything non-italian in the segment will likely suffer imo, including any potential new entry.

As for vwag/merc, they already have established supercar infrastructure (lambo(+audi), amg-mclaren connect), making the occasional supercar relatively cost-effective.


If anything, surplus should be fed into replacing the final year of e82 production with 1M production, something BMW will make solid money from and probably have the most positive effect on most BMW fans.

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      01-01-2012, 06:21 AM   #36
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      01-01-2012, 07:07 AM   #37
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I may agree BMW doesn't need a supercar, but BMW needs a focused drivers car like Porsche Cayman, Toyota GT86, Mazda MX-5, if BMW is really about driving fun. FAIL. In fact I have lost my interest in BMW. Not sure if I'll one day own an M4 F82, because I could prefere a an SLC AMG and an M3 will never be a 911. Oh, by the way, I am buying a Subaru BRZ because BMW has no Z2. But I think BMW's doesn't care to get my money, because they can get more from those buying the X6 M.
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      01-01-2012, 08:31 AM   #38
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BMW needs a Supercar because people are asking for it. any reason better than this? if i know there are some potential buyers for a product which my company can make it, i will make it into production line ASAP.
BMW needs a Z4 M, M3 CSL and M6 CSL for the very same reason.
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      01-01-2012, 07:48 PM   #39
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I may agree BMW doesn't need a supercar, but BMW needs a focused drivers car like Porsche Cayman, Toyota GT86, Mazda MX-5, if BMW is really about driving fun. FAIL. In fact I have lost my interest in BMW. Not sure if I'll one day own an M4 F82, because I could prefere a an SLC AMG and an M3 will never be a 911. Oh, by the way, I am buying a Subaru BRZ because BMW has no Z2. But I think BMW's doesn't care to get my money, because they can get more from those buying the X6 M.
Sorry Levi.... are you blind? The 1M is THE DRIVERS CAR. I think it has proved it many times already - not only the entire automotive press aggrees to it but also some VERY critical/skeptical thinking "normal" people (Hint: you know of whom I am talking...) present in many BMW forums now admit this... after having driven the car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
BMW needs a Supercar because people are asking for it. any reason better than this?
Who is asking? Some weired fanboys on the one hand, which will never be able to afford/buy one? Or - on the other hand - some haters, that think BMW not having a "supercar" is a perfect occasion to bash the brand?

So the question is: Has BMW to build a supercar for a minority of buyers even if this means to generate a loss with this project???
Since I do not feel the need for BMW to push the regular models with such a halo car ... I would say NO.

Cheers,Manuel
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      01-02-2012, 06:14 AM   #40
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Sorry Levi.... are you blind? The 1M is THE DRIVERS CAR. I think it has proved it many times already - not only the entire automotive press aggrees to it but also some VERY critical/skeptical thinking "normal" people (Hint: you know of whom I am talking...) present in many BMW forums now admit this... after having driven the car...

Chris Harris, yes I know and I believe him. The 1M is still a good move since the Z4 M Coupé. And I know it is not possible to demand more for the same price (50.000 €) when they had little time to develop the car. But I have better feelings for the M2. However I would still prefere a two seater, Z2 M Coupé.
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      01-02-2012, 08:39 AM   #41
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Chris Harris, yes I know and I believe him. The 1M is still a good move since the Z4 M Coupé. And I know it is not possible to demand more for the same price (50.000 €) when they had little time to develop the car. But I have better feelings for the M2. However I would still prefere a two seater, Z2 M Coupé.

Have you ever actually driven a 1M?

I have driven Advevo's black one, and me coming from a E90 M3 V8 highrevver. THe 1M is twice as nice so to speak.

If you get to drive one, you'll never look back to the upcoming 2 litre 200HP GT86, because them at ToyoSub made a great looking car with a nice rwd chassis and it doesn't weigh that much.

But come on!

A 4 pot 2 litre200HP atmo is a lame engine to say the least AD2012.... no torque whatsoever, and revs? You need POWER & revs(GT3/458 lol) ----> Better save your money for a 320BHP 1250kg Boxster Spyder, or just go for the 1M. The GT86 isn't going to be the car we want it to be, and yes you can make nice drifts/ slides with it, but you also can do that with a 1987 325i E30...
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      01-02-2012, 08:48 AM   #42
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I almost forgot: The McLaren F1 actually isn't a BMW but some parts are.

And that one still is the greatest(super) car ever, by far imo.
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      01-02-2012, 11:42 AM   #43
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Have you ever actually driven a 1M?

I have driven Advevo's black one, and me coming from a E90 M3 V8 highrevver. THe 1M is twice as nice so to speak.

If you get to drive one, you'll never look back to the upcoming 2 litre 200HP GT86, because them at ToyoSub made a great looking car with a nice rwd chassis and it doesn't weigh that much.

But come on!

A 4 pot 2 litre200HP atmo is a lame engine to say the least AD2012.... no torque whatsoever, and revs? You need POWER & revs(GT3/458 lol) ----> Better save your money for a 320BHP 1250kg Boxster Spyder, or just go for the 1M. The GT86 isn't going to be the car we want it to be, and yes you can make nice drifts/ slides with it, but you also can do that with a 1987 325i E30...
No doubt on the 1M and that the GT86 will lack power, but less so than an MX-5. And the GT86 for me is the first step to a 911 GT3. I am not a pro Driver like Adveveo. 200 PS is plenty enough for me to start with.
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      01-02-2012, 01:01 PM   #44
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I think BMW is already in super car status....its the Ultimate Driving Machine. Groups like HPF make this car better than most super cars.... just love what you own. Especially if its an M series.
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