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      06-22-2007, 05:24 AM   #23
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And by getting distracted and looking - you are only fueling your sexual desire towards the women you look at. So if they were good for your taste and you had your way - you would have sex with them.. all of them. Do you think that sex outside of marriage is a good thing - for your health, for society? Becuase that is all that looking is leading you towards..

+1. If people were brought up in modest societies, their sexual desires would not be fueled. Ask any rape victim, they will tell you that this is a good thing.

God made our bodies different and enjoyable so that husbands and wives could enjoy each other not so the world would become a giant porn movie.

+1. This life is also a test.
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      06-22-2007, 06:08 AM   #24
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I just think that religions need to be updated, because a lot of what is said in them pertains to issues of the past. Things such as pork being unsafe and dirty to eat, dogs being unsanitary, and other things like that. In the past Im sure that dogs were un clean and unsafe, but today there are dogs that are cleaner then some humans even. Pork is heavily regulated and now safe for the most part, but perhaps in the past at the start of religions pork was an unsafe meat.

Im just using those things as examples about many things stated in different religions that have changed with the times and it would be absolutely amazing and beneficial if there were some way to update religions.

Also, as far as the burka and body covering thing goes, despite it being said in the Koran, not all Islamic nations even abide by that rule. Iran only requires a tiny head scarf; Turkey, Dubai, and other nations don’t require any type of special clothing. I do, however, feel that the burka rules are terrible and don’t like the fact that those women have to cover up like that. Lets not forget that Islam isn’t the only religion with women covering up, how bout nuns?

The problem with most Islamic nations is that you have these horrible selfish leaders that are just blowing oil money out of their asses like you wouldn’t believe and don’t spend any of it on their nations. As smart as many people from the middle east can be, you also have a vast majority of people who are simple. They will believe all the bullshit that these mullahs and ayatollahs feed them. These leaders use religion as a way to control their people, people that can be simple and fall victim to these so called Islamic guidelines that these idiot mullahs set. However dont be fooled, there are SOOO many intellectuals from these nations who protest and try to stand up against these unjust acts by their governments. There are so many young people living in those nations who have just as much knowledge about the world and are just as up to date about everything as people from the west are. And they are very well aware that their governments are screwing them over.

If these leaders used their country’s oil money for the good of their countries, and if they would let their people out of the box and let them explore the rest of the world and catch up to modern times, and if they would stop using religion as a means to control their people, and if they would stop using Islam as their excuse to take out there issues with the west or whomever else through terrorism (because no religion, at least not Islam, encourages murdering. Im pretty sure that the Koran states that Muslims should try to enlighten others about Islam and try to recruit others, and not kill anyone who thinks otherwise), and if all of these things could happen……….Im sure that the world would DEFFINTELY BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE.
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      06-22-2007, 08:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost_Nation View Post
I just think that religions need to be updated, because a lot of what is said in them pertains to issues of the past. Things such as pork being unsafe and dirty to eat, dogs being unsanitary, and other things like that. In the past Im sure that dogs were un clean and unsafe, but today there are dogs that are cleaner then some humans even. Pork is heavily regulated and now safe for the most part, but perhaps in the past at the start of religions pork was an unsafe meat.
There's another element to it that most people don't realize other than simply that pork is unsafe, but ultimately once a person believes in the religion and opts to follow it, the test of their faith includes abstaining from something since it was ordained by God. As for the dogs, we can interact with them and it's considered ok to keep them as guard dogs, but their saliva is considered unsanitary. In Islam if a dog licks you, you have to wash that affected area well, 7 times, before your clothes (or body) is considered pure to be able to pray (we got 5 daily prayers). Likewise with containers and utensils they may have licked, and the first time involves using soil to muddy it up.

Also the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: "Whoever keeps a dog save for hunting or for guarding crops or cattle will lose one large measure (qirat) of his reward each day."
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Also, as far as the burka and body covering thing goes, despite it being said in the Koran, not all Islamic nations even abide by that rule. Iran only requires a tiny head scarf; Turkey, Dubai, and other nations don’t require any type of special clothing. I do, however, feel that the burka rules are terrible and don’t like the fact that those women have to cover up like that. Lets not forget that Islam isn’t the only religion with women covering up, how bout nuns?
The burka is not an Islamically prescribed action. In fact, the only covering a Muslim woman (of age) needs to adhere to is covering of the body with loose fitting garments and the head covering to cover their hair, neck, and ears. The face and hands can be visible. The burka/veil is optional, but not required.

It's nice to see you brought up nuns. I find it odd that many people have a problem with Muslim women dressing the way they do but when they're reminded of how nuns dress they say "oh but they're a special case, they work for the church etc." - well the women are in a state of worship by following what was prescribed too, they don't need to be at the mosque only.
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Originally Posted by Boost_Nation View Post
The problem with most Islamic nations is that you have these horrible selfish leaders that are just blowing oil money out of their asses like you wouldn’t believe and don’t spend any of it on their nations. As smart as many people from the middle east can be, you also have a vast majority of people who are simple. They will believe all the bullshit that these mullahs and ayatollahs feed them. These leaders use religion as a way to control their people, people that can be simple and fall victim to these so called Islamic guidelines that these idiot mullahs set. However dont be fooled, there are SOOO many intellectuals from these nations who protest and try to stand up against these unjust acts by their governments. There are so many young people living in those nations who have just as much knowledge about the world and are just as up to date about everything as people from the west are. And they are very well aware that their governments are screwing them over.

If these leaders used their country’s oil money for the good of their countries, and if they would let their people out of the box and let them explore the rest of the world and catch up to modern times, and if they would stop using religion as a means to control their people, and if they would stop using Islam as their excuse to take out there issues with the west or whomever else through terrorism (because no religion, at least not Islam, encourages murdering. Im pretty sure that the Koran states that Muslims should try to enlighten others about Islam and try to recruit others, and not kill anyone who thinks otherwise), and if all of these things could happen……….Im sure that the world would DEFFINTELY BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE.
I agree with you Many leaders subjugate their people so they're not quite leading it properly and using religion falsely is a major sin... they're going to be responsible for all the peoples' wrongdoing.

I think the problem in the world today with all world leaders is that they're only mostly looking out for themselves. Not just world leaders actually, society in general. Many people seem to be fending for themselves and wanting to get ahead and are only concerned with having it good for their own benefits in their limited life-span and lose track of the bigger picture. The mentality of "I'll do what suits me and screw the rest of the world, they won't benefit from my limited time on this earth."
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      06-22-2007, 10:29 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Boost_Nation View Post
The problem with most Islamic nations is that you have these horrible selfish leaders that are just blowing oil money out of their asses like you wouldn’t believe and don’t spend any of it on their nations. As smart as many people from the middle east can be, you also have a vast majority of people who are simple. They will believe all the bullshit that these mullahs and ayatollahs feed them. These leaders use religion as a way to control their people, people that can be simple and fall victim to these so called Islamic guidelines that these idiot mullahs set. However dont be fooled, there are SOOO many intellectuals from these nations who protest and try to stand up against these unjust acts by their governments. There are so many young people living in those nations who have just as much knowledge about the world and are just as up to date about everything as people from the west are. And they are very well aware that their governments are screwing them over.

If these leaders used their country’s oil money for the good of their countries, and if they would let their people out of the box and let them explore the rest of the world and catch up to modern times, and if they would stop using religion as a means to control their people, and if they would stop using Islam as their excuse to take out there issues with the west or whomever else through terrorism (because no religion, at least not Islam, encourages murdering. Im pretty sure that the Koran states that Muslims should try to enlighten others about Islam and try to recruit others, and not kill anyone who thinks otherwise), and if all of these things could happen……….Im sure that the world would DEFFINTELY BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE.

Excellent point and Excellent post.. thats exactly the way I feel... Greed is overtaking people.. some of these oil rich countries have such poor populations.. its sad to see
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      06-22-2007, 10:47 AM   #27
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Excellent point and Excellent post.. thats exactly the way I feel... Greed is overtaking people.. some of these oil rich countries have such poor populations.. its sad to see
+1. I totally agree with everything in that post. I didnt see the post as I was away Juma prayers at the mosque, and when I came back it was already replied to.

To Boost_Nation :

I see that you place a lot of responsibilities on Muslims to change this world. You are right that we should reject terrorism, and we do. Last week we had an open day at our mosque where many unbelievers attended so that we could show them Islam is not terrorism. However, our efforts are not recognised. Anyway, another point I would like to make is that many of the faults in this world lie with world leaders. Since you already spoke about muslim leaders, I would like to talk about other leaders. We both know the intentions for the Iraq war were false and dirty. However, in this world it is the Muslim leaders and terrorists that alone have blame for the faults in this world. Noone criticises Bush and Blair for their corruptness...
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      06-22-2007, 12:14 PM   #28
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On teh contrary, while I support my troops, it's their leader I despise. He is sucha blatant liar, and not even good at hiding it. His buddy Cheney isn't any better. Might have somethign to do with oil/money in both their cases.

On the subject of nuns, yes they cover up, as do the priests, but it is a self-enforced choice. Can you point me to one time when a bunch of priests beat a nun for not wearing her habit? Or a bunch of church attendees beat the nun for banging Harvey Wallbangers? They take vows, but no one beats them for breaking the vows. My aunt and uncle met as nun/priest, renounced their vows and got married. No one has ever come after them for that, in fact they are quite active members of the church (lecturer, Eucharistic ministers).

Yes, the leaders are corrupt, hence it's OUR duty to keep things on the staight and narrow, as much as possible. Think global, act local. I don't really think *I* can stop global hunger, but for over 20 years I have sponsored a kid in Ethiopia. I no longer give my mom and dad presents, I take the money I would have spent and give to the local food bank, or buy an animal for some unfortunate family so they can at least reach a minimal subsistence level. Adn ALL involved are pleased. I have such an abundance of things, never worry about a meal or if I will have fresh water, that I can think of nothing more basic to give to my fellow human being.
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      07-16-2007, 03:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
On teh contrary, while I support my troops, it's their leader I despise. He is sucha blatant liar, and not even good at hiding it. His buddy Cheney isn't any better. Might have somethign to do with oil/money in both their cases.
If lie is defined as "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive," please list for me those lies that you believe the President and Vice-President are guilty of telling. Citations of time and place they were told would be especially helpful.
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      07-16-2007, 03:20 PM   #30
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If lie is defined as "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive," please list for me those lies that you believe the President and Vice-President are guilty of telling. Citations of time and place they were told would be especially helpful.
WOW, that is a hard task...whole country is wowing for an impeachment, but here we discuss that...

The bottom line (lying or not) is that 3500 soldiers are lost, trillion(s) of my and your money and we're (safety wise) worse now and the enemy is stronger than before

HANG THEM BOTH!
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      07-16-2007, 03:49 PM   #31
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If lie is defined as "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive," please list for me those lies that you believe the President and Vice-President are guilty of telling. Citations of time and place they were told would be especially helpful.
1. Bush Lies In State Of The Union Speech

Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

In what the BBC calls "highly unusual," a State of the Union Speech was interrupted by a chorus of "No's," booing, and heckles from some of the members of Congress in attendance. This happened immediately after the above Bush lie. As Shields mentioned on the PBS wrap-up, and as Brooks concurred, if adjustments are not made, by 2042, as they have been made before, 3/4 of the funds promised would still be available. The entire system would neither be exhausted nor bankrupt. -- Politex, 02.03.05

2-4. Bush's Trifecta Of Lies

President Bush, speaking to the nation this month about the need to challenge Saddam Hussein, warned that Iraq has a growing fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used "for missions targeting the United States."

Last month, asked if there were new and conclusive evidence of Hussein's nuclear weapons capabilities, Bush cited a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency saying the Iraqis were "six months away from developing a weapon." And last week, the president said objections by a labor union to having customs officials wear radiation detectors has the potential to delay the policy "for a long period of time."

All three assertions were powerful arguments for the actions Bush sought. And all three statements were dubious, if not wrong. Further information revealed that the aircraft lack the range to reach the United States; there was no such report by the IAEA; and the customs dispute over the detectors was resolved long ago. --10.22.02, Washington Post

5. Bush: "You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them." (--Washington Post, "Bush: 'We Found' Banned Weapons. President Cites Trailers in Iraq as Proof, " May 31, 2003

*Wow, interweb full of examples of Bush and others in the admin lying. Pages and pages. Try google. Here's a good one:

"I don't believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons."
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a hearing of the Senate's appropriations subcommittee on defense, May 14, 2003

"We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
Vice President Dick Cheney on NBC's Meet the Press, March 16, 2003

Edit: I didn't check the validity of these quotes, so take them for what you want.
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      07-16-2007, 05:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
1. Bush Lies In State Of The Union Speech

Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

In what the BBC calls "highly unusual," a State of the Union Speech was interrupted by a chorus of "No's," booing, and heckles from some of the members of Congress in attendance. This happened immediately after the above Bush lie. As Shields mentioned on the PBS wrap-up, and as Brooks concurred, if adjustments are not made, by 2042, as they have been made before, 3/4 of the funds promised would still be available. The entire system would neither be exhausted nor bankrupt. -- Politex, 02.03.05
This statement by the President was accurate according to the Social Security Board of Trustees. Their report can be found here.

Quote:
2-4. Bush's Trifecta Of Lies

President Bush, speaking to the nation this month about the need to challenge Saddam Hussein, warned that Iraq has a growing fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used "for missions targeting the United States."
The administration did not, as your selected quote implies, that the UAV's could reach the US from Iraq. Their position was explained by Sec of State Powell, "Iraq could use these small UAVs, which have a wingspan of only a few meters, to deliver biological agents to its neighbors or, if transported, to other countries, including the United States."

A number of these small UAV's have been recovered.

Quote:
Last month, asked if there were new and conclusive evidence of Hussein's nuclear weapons capabilities, Bush cited a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency saying the Iraqis were "six months away from developing a weapon."
The IAEA report issued in 1998 did say that Iraq had been 6-24 months from developing a nuclear weapon. The White House spokesman erred when he claimed this was a 1991 rather than a 1998 report.

Quote:
And last week, the president said objections by a labor union to having customs officials wear radiation detectors has the potential to delay the policy "for a long period of time."
Now this is really stretching it. The President was referring to a dispute over whether or not DHS employees should be protected by civil service work rules. Here is what he said, We need flexibility to deal with emerging threats. The Customs Service, for example, decided to require inspectors at the Nation's 301 ports to wear radiation detection devices. The world changed. We are worried about weapons of mass destruction coming into our country, and so the Customs Service said, "Why don't we have our folks wear radiation detection devices to be able to pick up any possible signal." The devices work, and they're an important part of somebody being able to do their job. Under the rules that some Senators support, the union that represents the Customs would be able to say, "You can't do that. That must be voluntary." For the-that doesn't make any sense to me, that we not--that we have to work through a process that would enable our hard-working Customs officials to be able to do that which they think is necessary to protect America. And we can't afford sitting around for a year debating whether or not wearing devices ought to be voluntary or not."

Quote:
5. Bush: "You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them." (--Washington Post, "Bush: 'We Found' Banned Weapons. President Cites Trailers in Iraq as Proof, " May 31, 2003
The President made those comments in an interview on May 29, 2003. At that time the Pentagon did believe that the mobile labs were used for biological warfare. The report that determined they were not was released two weeks later.

Quote:
"I don't believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons."
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, at a hearing of the Senate's appropriations subcommittee on defense, May 14, 2003

"We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."
Vice President Dick Cheney on NBC's Meet the Press, March 16, 2003
The VP was clearly referring to a nuclear weapons program as the entire interview clearly shows, "I think that would be the fear here, that even if he were tomorrow to give everything up, if he stays in power, we have to assume that as soon as the world is looking the other way and preoccupied with other issues, he will be back again rebuilding his BW and CW capabilities, and once again reconstituting his nuclear program."

Quote:
Edit: I didn't check the validity of these quotes, so take them for what you want.
Maybe next time you should.
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      07-16-2007, 05:42 PM   #33
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I would say Bush either believes what he says or not. If the second -- he's liar.
If the first, he's an uneducated moron with no brains in that ugly head.
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      07-16-2007, 07:12 PM   #34
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I would say Bush either believes what he says or not. If the second -- he's liar.
If the first, he's an uneducated moron with no brains in that ugly head.
Comments like this are useless at multiple levels. They are ad hominem and without substance.

Do you have specific comments to analyze?
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      07-16-2007, 07:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
If lie is defined as "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive," please list for me those lies that you believe the President and Vice-President are guilty of telling. Citations of time and place they were told would be especially helpful.
I agree. It would be extremely difficult to prove that Bush had "intent to deceive." Even if he did, as a skillful politician, he could and would easily make something up. if Clinton got away with an outright lie, trust me, Bush can do even better under the circumstances.
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      07-17-2007, 07:25 AM   #36
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I agree. It would be extremely difficult to prove that Bush had "intent to deceive." Even if he did, as a skillful politician, he could and would easily make something up. if Clinton got away with an outright lie, trust me, Bush can do even better under the circumstances.
That sounds like a plan. We will forgo facts and evidence and just "trust" you.
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      07-17-2007, 07:41 AM   #37
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Islam may be a religion like all others, but here's a list of the conflicts currently occuring in the world and they all involve muslims:
U.S. and UK vs. Iraq 2003
Israel vs. Palestinians
Afghanistan: U.S., UK, and Coalition Forces vs. al-Qaeda and Taliban 2001
India vs. Kashmiri separatist groups/Pakistan 1948
India vs. Assam insurgents (various muslim groups) 1979
Indonesia vs. Christians and Muslims in Molucca Islands 1977
Indonesia vs. Papua (Irian Jaya) separatists 1969
Nepal vs. Maoist rebels 1995
Philippines vs. Mindanaoan separatists
(MILF/ASG) 1971
Sri Lanka vs. Tamil Eelan2
Africa
Algeria vs. Armed Islamic Group (GIA) 1991
Côte d'Ivoire vs. rebels 2002
Democratic Republic of Congo and allies vs. Rwanda, Uganda, and indigenous rebels 1997
Somalia vs. rival clans and Islamist groups 1991
Sudan vs. Darfur rebel groups 2003
Uganda vs. Lord's Resistance Army (

Muslim groups are involved with all these conflicts on the planet....and that's a fact.
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      07-17-2007, 08:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zimbim View Post
Islam may be a religion like all others, but here's a list of the conflicts currently occuring in the world and they all involve muslims:
U.S. and UK vs. Iraq 2003
Israel vs. Palestinians
Afghanistan: U.S., UK, and Coalition Forces vs. al-Qaeda and Taliban 2001
India vs. Kashmiri separatist groups/Pakistan 1948
India vs. Assam insurgents (various muslim groups) 1979
Indonesia vs. Christians and Muslims in Molucca Islands 1977
Indonesia vs. Papua (Irian Jaya) separatists 1969
Nepal vs. Maoist rebels 1995
Philippines vs. Mindanaoan separatists
(MILF/ASG) 1971
Sri Lanka vs. Tamil Eelan2
Africa
Algeria vs. Armed Islamic Group (GIA) 1991
Côte d'Ivoire vs. rebels 2002
Democratic Republic of Congo and allies vs. Rwanda, Uganda, and indigenous rebels 1997
Somalia vs. rival clans and Islamist groups 1991
Sudan vs. Darfur rebel groups 2003
Uganda vs. Lord's Resistance Army (

Muslim groups are involved with all these conflicts on the planet....and that's a fact.

hm, and what is the other side in the conflict?
it takes two to have the conflict...
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      07-17-2007, 09:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Comments like this are useless at multiple levels. They are ad hominem and without substance.

Do you have specific comments to analyze?
You keep using this phrase, but really, you cannot comment it as it is becoming more evident daily that it is true. Especially with all the latest -- all your "evidence" of "right doing" in Iraq and so on is drowning lately...

We (as every other nation) have big issues internally, from the medicare, social security, education, food education, and so on. Other nations (most of them) invest as much as they can in dealing with the issues, where our president simply wasted 5 years and trillion of dollars to do -- nothing positive. His plan has destroyed another country (Iraq), has caused great instability in the region, has divided our country even more, has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in last 5 years (much more that during the dictator's decades of ruling), has caused >3500 deaths of our soldiers, has caused a complete mess in our defensive capability (soldiers shortage, tired Army...), and produced -- stronger and numerically larger enemy.

It has also caused more hate toward the USA, it has also caused less friends in the world, less opportunities in the future and so on.

It has also caused that internally important things (mentioned above) be put on hold and all that the Congress is debating these days is -- should we pull out or not or should we push for impeachment or not.

We have done something on our own pretty much (as we previously discussed many times), we're pretty much left on our own, with no clear vision and plan what's next. How many times did Bush and his military leaders change their "great" plans lately??? Ridiculous. Yep, a good military is supposed to adopt to the situation, but NOT wrong way, every time...

I do feel sorry for the lost lives and their families. At this point, the lives are lost for NOTHING. Pulling out will just confirm that and stay at that. Staying there will just threaten more lives lost with the current leaders and current plan.

Therefore, I do believe current leadership (all the way to the top) should be responsible and should be questioned in fron of the international community and inside the USA about all this. The worst thing would be in two years if they "retire", continue receiving $400k/year salary with all benefits, and go in history just as the worst president/VP we ever had. That is not going to do any good to the USA.
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      07-17-2007, 10:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
You keep using this phrase, but really, you cannot comment it as it is becoming more evident daily that it is true. Especially with all the latest -- all your "evidence" of "right doing" in Iraq and so on is drowning lately...
I keep using it because you keep making statements which you cannot substantiate. You somehow believe that you have a better more accurate understanding of what is going on in Iraq than the commanders who are on the ground there.

On the one hand, you constantly dismiss opinions of people who do not travel as extensively as you do when they dare express one on China, Japan, etc... You have no problem though speaking about Iraq as if you have any sort of experience or information that informs your opinions.

Quote:
We (as every other nation) have big issues internally, from the medicare, social security, education, food education, and so on. Other nations (most of them) invest as much as they can in dealing with the issues, where our president simply wasted 5 years and trillion of dollars to do -- nothing positive. His plan has destroyed another country (Iraq), has caused great instability in the region, has divided our country even more, has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in last 5 years (much more that during the dictator's decades of ruling), has caused >3500 deaths of our soldiers, has caused a complete mess in our defensive capability (soldiers shortage, tired Army...), and produced -- stronger and numerically larger enemy.
Are you saying that there is a more important function for the federal government to conduct than fighting and winning the nation's wars?

I have no idea where you get your idea that more people have died in this war than during Saddam's rule but you are flat out incorrect.

As is your comment regarding the state of our military. Wars stress military forces and this one is no exception but it is far from a complete mess. We now have an Army and Marine Corps with a corps of mid-level leaders with extensive combat experience that will benefit the force for years to come.

I would also love to see the source for your assertion that the enemy is larger and stronger today.

Quote:
It has also caused more hate toward the USA, it has also caused less friends in the world, less opportunities in the future and so on.
You continually state this opinion as well but never answer the questions that logically follow. So what? ,and, Should this nation (or any nation) base its defense and foreign policy on what people in another nation may think about it?

Quote:
It has also caused that internally important things (mentioned above) be put on hold and all that the Congress is debating these days is -- should we pull out or not or should we push for impeachment or not.
The President has no control over the legislative agenda of the Congress is. If you are dissatisfied with Congress, direct your wrath at the congressional leadership not at the other end of Pennsylvania Ave.

Quote:
We have done something on our own pretty much (as we previously discussed many times), we're pretty much left on our own, with no clear vision and plan what's next. How many times did Bush and his military leaders change their "great" plans lately??? Ridiculous. Yep, a good military is supposed to adopt to the situation, but NOT wrong way, every time...
I will never let you get away with this line of lies. Dozens of nations supported and continue to support our efforts in Iraq. Please tell me what nation in the world would have needed to support the effort to make it more to your liking?

We have had two major changes in strategy in 4+ years. One when major force on force operations against the Republican Guard came to an end and another when the "surge" replaced the "small foot print" strategy of General Abazid and Casey. Should that strategy have been changed sooner? Probably but war is all about actions, reactions, and counter-actions.

What evidence do you have that the current strategy is the wrong one?

Given your obvious expertise in this area, how would you win the war?

Quote:
I do feel sorry for the lost lives and their families. At this point, the lives are lost for NOTHING. Pulling out will just confirm that and stay at that. Staying there will just threaten more lives lost with the current leaders and current plan.
The lives lost will be for nothing only if we lose. That is what you and others are advocating, losing, quitting, surrendering.
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      07-17-2007, 11:40 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I keep using it because you keep making statements which you cannot substantiate. You somehow believe that you have a better more accurate understanding of what is going on in Iraq than the commanders who are on the ground there.

On the one hand, you constantly dismiss opinions of people who do not travel as extensively as you do when they dare express one on China, Japan, etc... You have no problem though speaking about Iraq as if you have any sort of experience or information that informs your opinions.



Are you saying that there is a more important function for the federal government to conduct than fighting and winning the nation's wars?

I have no idea where you get your idea that more people have died in this war than during Saddam's rule but you are flat out incorrect.

As is your comment regarding the state of our military. Wars stress military forces and this one is no exception but it is far from a complete mess. We now have an Army and Marine Corps with a corps of mid-level leaders with extensive combat experience that will benefit the force for years to come.

I would also love to see the source for your assertion that the enemy is larger and stronger today.


You continually state this opinion as well but never answer the questions that logically follow. So what? ,and, Should this nation (or any nation) base its defense and foreign policy on what people in another nation may think about it?



The President has no control over the legislative agenda of the Congress is. If you are dissatisfied with Congress, direct your wrath at the congressional leadership not at the other end of Pennsylvania Ave.


I will never let you get away with this line of lies. Dozens of nations supported and continue to support our efforts in Iraq. Please tell me what nation in the world would have needed to support the effort to make it more to your liking?
We have had two major changes in strategy in 4+ years. One when major force on force operations against the Republican Guard came to an end and another when the "surge" replaced the "small foot print" strategy of General Abazid and Casey. Should that strategy have been changed sooner? Probably but war is all about actions, reactions, and counter-actions.

What evidence do you have that the current strategy is the wrong one?

Given your obvious expertise in this area, how would you win the war?



The lives lost will be for nothing only if we lose. That is what you and others are advocating, losing, quitting, surrendering.
WOW!
The highlighted answers above just do not allow me to respond to your comments on this subject any more...
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      07-17-2007, 11:53 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
WOW!
The highlighted answers above just do not allow me to respond to your comments on this subject any more...
I am sorry you consider yourself unable to answer fairly simple questions.

Sorry but not actually surprised.
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      07-17-2007, 11:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I am sorry you consider yourself unable to answer fairly simple questions.

Sorry but not actually surprised.
I actually like answering complex, not simple questions, and also ones that are not answered daily, for past 3 years on every TV channel or newpaper...
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      07-17-2007, 12:18 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
I actually like answering complex, not simple questions, and also ones that are not answered daily, for past 3 years on every TV channel or newpaper...
I have yet to experience you answering any type of question in a satisfactory manner.

Don't try to pawn off your inability to substantiate your assertions or answer questions on the positions you take on newspapers or TV news shows, just admit you do not have the answers.
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