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      12-08-2011, 05:43 PM   #1
tlv
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Arkrapovic Evolution or M-Performance plus Challenge X-Pipe with High-FlowCatalyst

I'm considering these two exhaust options, and would appreciate any experience or opinion anyone might have regarding these set-ups. There's alot out there on the AkraEvo, and it seems to be the "gold-standard" for performance-gain and workmanship. The only, maybe "less-than-good" that I've read, is a low-end drop in torque, which some (posts, internet searches) say is corrected with a tune. I also read somewhere, that the AkraEvo may have a "drone" at certain RPMs, but others not (?). The M-Performance however seems to have a "universal approval" for sound quality, but negatives for it's cost and no gain in performance - so, AkraEvo or M-Perf with Challenge X-Pipe HFC? Does anyone have any experience (or opinion) with the later? And if so, did you notice any significant gain in performance?
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      12-08-2011, 05:49 PM   #2
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Search for M-perf with aftermarket x-pipe. I remember reading somewhere on here that it doesn't make for a very good combo.
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      12-08-2011, 06:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Search for M-perf with aftermarket x-pipe. I remember reading somewhere on here that it doesn't make for a very good combo.
I heard (and saw) that too.
M Performance exhaust sounds great with stock xpipe but bad with any other aftermarket xpipes.
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      12-08-2011, 06:51 PM   #4
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akra and a catless rear is the perfect set up imo

call it a day
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      12-08-2011, 07:25 PM   #5
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wonder why the m performance does not sound good with another x-pipe? Kind of want to do x-pipe with my OEM modified but maybe wont sound good either?
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      12-08-2011, 10:03 PM   #6
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wonder why the m performance does not sound good with another x-pipe? Kind of want to do x-pipe with my OEM modified but maybe wont sound good either?
Ateam, you did exhaust mod and got the bug. Here is kitw's video with the m Perf and I believe turner straight pipes. It is very raspy. Don't let the video fool you, in person it is likely super raspy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmuS1oU42kk
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      12-08-2011, 10:35 PM   #7
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Ateam, you did exhaust mod and got the bug. Here is kitw's video with the m Perf and I believe turner straight pipes. It is very raspy. Don't let the video fool you, in person it is likely super raspy.

totally got the bug-I really have to take back all the time I thought exhausts took away from the car because it makes it 10 times more enjoyable and I keep wanting more and more! Its like crack hearing the sound of that thing, and it takes more and more to keep giving me that same rush! Very funny us car guys!

So you are saying stay away from the xpipe correct? Dont be fooled into thinking it sounds good? Sound advice and I am really really happy with mine now.

The thing I wonder though is the stock pipe is an xpipe so I wonder how it makes it so different. Wierd
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      12-08-2011, 10:37 PM   #8
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Ateam, you did exhaust mod and got the bug. Here is kitw's video with the m Perf and I believe turner straight pipes. It is very raspy. Don't let the video fool you, in person it is likely super raspy.

That actualy sounds incredible though! If that is rasp than so be it! I guess I am in the minority but don't a lot of exotics have a large raspy sound? I think it sounds good!
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      12-08-2011, 10:39 PM   #9
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Do you guys think it is the lack of the cats that makes it sound too raspy or is it the xpipe design? I am wondering what if you just replace the cat but keep stock xpipe and secondary cat or something? I wish I had an exhaust shop and could experiment-man that would be fun!
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      12-08-2011, 11:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
Do you guys think it is the lack of the cats that makes it sound too raspy or is it the xpipe design? I am wondering what if you just replace the cat but keep stock xpipe and secondary cat or something? I wish I had an exhaust shop and could experiment-man that would be fun!
I don't know . I suspect the cats and the resonators. I'd be curious to know what the stock x pipe sounds like without cats or just without the secondary cats in terms of sound (ignoring performance).

By the way, as you noted the videos don't give you the whole story.

I don't like videos where the mic is on the bumper because it is too close to the source. They all sound good like that. However, you never hear that perspective inside or outside the car.

Since I have a reference from when my car was catless with oem, I want to believe that I am a little better at picking out rasp from videos. Again, it is not bad but I believe the difference between a raspy mean sound and an aggressive bassy sound is worlds apart.

If I go catless it will be part of a system where the muffler takes into account resonators and stuff.
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      12-08-2011, 11:12 PM   #11
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Also, my AA is super sweet and can't imagine it better (MRF, Evolve or Akra). But I think I might find them more appealing inside and out. My AA is awesome on the outside, but what about me in the cabin? I don't hear the bassy textures. An xpipe prolly changed that though. I dunno.

However, the stock exhaust in cabin experience would be more exciting if it was louder.
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      12-08-2011, 11:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
Do you guys think it is the lack of the cats that makes it sound too raspy or is it the xpipe design? I am wondering what if you just replace the cat but keep stock xpipe and secondary cat or something? I wish I had an exhaust shop and could experiment-man that would be fun!
No matter what you do DON'T pair the OEM modded exhaust with an xpipe it will be so raspy you wont want to drive your car. As for exhaust experiments I have tried a ton of different setups so feel free to ask me.

The underlying theme with the s65 exhaust is that it needs resonators, and the more of them the better.

IMO the way to go would be a full Dinan, Akra or Gintani exhaust.
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      12-09-2011, 12:02 AM   #13
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No matter what you do DON'T pair the OEM modded exhaust with an xpipe it will be so raspy you wont want to drive your car. As for exhaust experiments I have tried a ton of different setups so feel free to ask me.

The underlying theme with the s65 exhaust is that it needs resonators, and the more of them the better.

IMO the way to go would be a full Dinan, Akra or Gintani exhaust.

What if you use an xpipe that keeps the primary cats and all the resonators and just deletes the secondary cats like fabspeed does with one of their options? Or then is it even worth it or any different than stock?

I guess what I struggle with is how aftermarket x-pipes are louder or better than a stock x-pipe? I always thought its usually from the Cat delete that most x-pipes have, that is making the sound that much different.

On another note, why do you think the OEM with an xpipe does cause all the rasp? The way my exhaust is modified (designed by ACM) is virtually identical to dinans rear section only a bit louder due to no absorption chamber. Its the same flow of piping that basicaly is a straight pipe through both a hemoltz for half the dinan muffler and then it travels the other half through an absorption chamber and out one single pipe. This mod uses a y pipe like stock which apparently to them had more drone.

With that said I dont know why a xpipe would sound good with dinan but bad with this type of OEM exhaust mod. The two OEM exhaust mods are pretty drastically different actually and only have the outside canister that is similar. The ACM way totally deletes the middle section and all the pipes zig zagging. Simply put a straight pipe through the hemoltz resonator and out the back through a y pipe. Its basically straight pipes with the hemoltz to modify the sound (I know most know this but in case someone did not see the ACM thread).

Bottom line-would fabspeed x-pipe that deletes only the secondary cats, but leaves primaries and also leaves resonators be worth it for a couple thousand or would the sound be worse? Or really no different than stock?
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      12-09-2011, 03:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
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That actualy sounds incredible though! If that is rasp than so be it! I guess I am in the minority but don't a lot of exotics have a large raspy sound? I think it sounds good!
Kitw's video rocks and was my inspiration to get my perf exhaust. His video is great in that shows a variety of driving scenarios...and even from in the cabin. (Those downshifts were positively WICKED - I hope to get there one day with my MT).
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      12-09-2011, 01:26 PM   #15
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What if you use an xpipe that keeps the primary cats and all the resonators and just deletes the secondary cats like fabspeed does with one of their options? Or then is it even worth it or any different than stock?

I guess what I struggle with is how aftermarket x-pipes are louder or better than a stock x-pipe? I always thought its usually from the Cat delete that most x-pipes have, that is making the sound that much different.

On another note, why do you think the OEM with an xpipe does cause all the rasp? The way my exhaust is modified (designed by ACM) is virtually identical to dinans rear section only a bit louder due to no absorption chamber. Its the same flow of piping that basicaly is a straight pipe through both a hemoltz for half the dinan muffler and then it travels the other half through an absorption chamber and out one single pipe. This mod uses a y pipe like stock which apparently to them had more drone.

With that said I dont know why a xpipe would sound good with dinan but bad with this type of OEM exhaust mod. The two OEM exhaust mods are pretty drastically different actually and only have the outside canister that is similar. The ACM way totally deletes the middle section and all the pipes zig zagging. Simply put a straight pipe through the hemoltz resonator and out the back through a y pipe. Its basically straight pipes with the hemoltz to modify the sound (I know most know this but in case someone did not see the ACM thread).

Bottom line-would fabspeed x-pipe that deletes only the secondary cats, but leaves primaries and also leaves resonators be worth it for a couple thousand or would the sound be worse? Or really no different than stock?

Deleting the secondary cats is a huge waste of time and does nothing. The reason why the Dinan mufflers dont have any rasp with their Xpipe is because they use two sets of resonators. If you do anything I would get a Dinan xpipe and a tune for the CEL. That paired with your modded exhaust would probably sound great
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      12-09-2011, 03:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Ateam, you did exhaust mod and got the bug. Here is kitw's video with the m Perf and I believe turner straight pipes. It is very raspy. Don't let the video fool you, in person it is likely super raspy.

He went through a buttload of exhausts. Remember he said his best one was TTP's on stock Xpipe with the Eisenmann Sport.
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      12-09-2011, 09:25 PM   #17
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He went through a buttload of exhausts. Remember he said his best one was TTP's on stock Xpipe with the Eisenmann Sport.
I would bet that sounds amazing and is loud but "just right"
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      12-09-2011, 09:43 PM   #18
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He went through a buttload of exhausts. Remember he said his best one was TTP's on stock Xpipe with the Eisenmann Sport.
Are you talking to me? This recent modded OEM was my first on this car!

What about fabspeed x-pipe with HFC and 2 resonators? with modded oem?
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      12-27-2011, 02:31 PM   #19
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Came across a couple of youtube videos with M perf and X-pipe combo.

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      12-27-2011, 02:55 PM   #20
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Came across a couple of youtube videos with M perf and X-pipe combo.

Sounds really raspy
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      12-27-2011, 10:28 PM   #21
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I am thinking about an Eisenmann with a Challenge Street. The M-Performance sounds great but for the money i really do not know if it is worth it. The only reason why it's worth the money is because of the Iconnel material.
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      12-27-2011, 10:50 PM   #22
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You need to have the stock xpipe or a xpipe with quad resonators if you go with the M Performance exhaust. It will be super raspy if you don't.
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