BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-03-2011, 10:20 PM   #1
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,970
iTrader: (5)

S65 Headers Comparo !!

I wanted to see if there was any real reason to get excited about these types of headers, so I asked PG if he had any dyno charts that might shed some light on the subject one way or the other. Here's what he came up with.

-----

The original factory headers are 40mm primary tubes. RD Sport experimented with two different designs of larger tube headers. Headers were produced in 42mm and 44mm primary tube configurations. A Tri-Y collector and 4:1 collector were also tested. The dyno chart immediately below will show only stock and Tri-Y configurations. Another dyno chart later on will show the comparison between Tri-Y and 4:1 collectors with and without ECU tuning. In the first dyno chart, there are five different RD Sport stroker motors: two with stock headers, and three with larger diameter Tri-Y headers.



The five motors and their modifications are as follows:
  • RS46-1: RD Sport "stroker" motor, stock headers, 200-Cell HF cats, RD Sport exhaust, underdrive pulley, stock ECU. 401whp, 317wtq.
  • RS46-2: RD Sport "stroker" motor, 42mm Tri-Y headers, 200-Cell HF cats, RD Sport exhaust, underdrive pulley, stock ECU. 404whp, 320wtq.
  • RS46-3: RD Sport "stroker" motor, 44mm Tri-Y headers, 200-Cell HF cats, RD Sport exhaust, underdrive pulley, stock ECU. 398whp, 321wtq.
  • RS46-5: RD Sport "stroker" motor, 42mm Tri-Y headers, 200-Cell HF cats, RD Sport exhaust, underdrive pulley, Active Autowerke ECU. 410whp, 329wtq.
  • RS46-8: RD Sport "stroker" motor, stock headers, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust, underdrive pulley, RD Sport ECU. 403whp, 313wtq.

There's a few things that really jump out at me from this dyno chart.
  1. Changing the header design to Tri-Y has a significant negative effect without proper ECU tuning. From looking at these charts, you can see a significant torque dip between 2600-4000 RPMs on all cars with the Tri-Y header design. Moral to the story, don't mess with the header design unless you really know what you're doing.
  2. There's no significant performance difference between the stock 40mm headers and larger 42mm headers, although the 42mm headers do seem to produce a tiny amount more torque.
  3. There seems to be a negative performance impact jumping from 40mm headers (or 42mm) up to 44mm headers. Moral to the story: bigger isn't better, sometimes it's worse.

"RS46-5" continued to develop the ECU tuning for the Tri-Y and 4:1 headers. This car was delivered to a well known SoCal BMW tuner. The goal was to use ECU tuning to elimitate the torque dip on the Tri-Y header design. So RS46-5 picks up with the dyno chart below, almost exactly where the dyno chart above left off. Before ECU tuning began, RS46-5 was flashed back to stock, then delivered for ECU tuning.

There are four different graphs on the dyno chart below:
  • "Factory ECU" is the baseline for RS46-5. This is where tuning started for the Tri-Y headers.
  • "Tri-Y Tune" is the best tuned version of RS46-5.
  • "4-1" Baseline picks up where "Tri-Y Tune" leaves off. The only difference is the replacement of the Tri-Y collector with the 4:1 collector.
  • "4-1 Custom Tune" was the best tuned version of the 42mm headers with 4:1 collector.



Here's what jumps out at me from this chart:
  1. No matter how many attempts were made, the ECU tuning was not able to remove the torque dip caused by the Tri-Y collector of the headers.
  2. The final ECU tuning of the Tri-Y actually had less torque below 3000 RPMs than before ECU tuning.
  3. Changing the collector from Tri-Y to 4:1 immediately elimited the torque dip. This tells me that header configuration is critical, and some designs can actually significantly hurt performance.

Based on what I saw with these large tube headers, I would want to know the following before making any header decisions.
  • What is the primary tube size? 42mm seems to work and produces a tiny amount of torque, but doesn't produce any real power over stock. 44mm seems too big and appears to lose power.
  • Is ECU tuning required to run these headers? We've seen what happens both with and without ECU tuning with larger tube headers. The headers themselves seem to disrupt many of the power characteristics of the motor, and the charts above would indicate that some level of ECU tuning will be required.
  • If ECU tuning is required, who is going to do it? If it is, I'd want to know if the tuner is capable, as it appears that not all tuners are.
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec

Last edited by IMG; 12-06-2011 at 07:03 AM.
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2011, 10:59 PM   #2
CMM3
Private First Class
 
CMM3's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Excellent comparison. The stock headers are very efficient and flow very well. I'm very glad we were able to get actual R&D that shows the stock headers are more than capable to make power even on a fully built engine.
__________________
"All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions."
-Leonardo Da Vinci
CMM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-03-2011, 11:38 PM   #3
Orange fever
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Orange fever's Avatar
 
Drives: E46M,E90M,X5M,135I
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: in the hood!!!

Posts: 1,582
iTrader: (4)

Stock headers ftw still....
__________________

X5M E70 Black Sapphire Metallic,VF Engineering Hex Flash Software,Vorsteiner-FrontSpoiler/RearDiffuser
/ 2011 135i/E82 N55 Aw (stock)
Orange fever is offline   Thailand
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 12:59 AM   #4
SchnellM3
Digger
 
SchnellM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 03 E46 M3, 09 E92 M3, 09 X6 50
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pa

Posts: 2,616
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange fever View Post
Stock headers ftw still....


In all reality the guys at M really did a great job with this car from that magnificent S65, intake and even the stock exhaust really. It will be interesting to see what the headers that IND has from M24 will do though...
__________________
2009 E92 M3 /// Melbourne Red /// Fox Red /// M DKG

Full Innotech Exhaust - DINAN Intake - IND Engine Bay Appearance - IND Hand Stitched Boot Covers - and much more....
SchnellM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 01:07 AM   #5
CMM3
Private First Class
 
CMM3's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchnellM3 View Post



In all reality the guys at M really did a great job with this car from that magnificent S65, intake and even the stock exhaust really. It will be interesting to see what the headers that IND has from M24 will do though...
Why would those be any different? We've seen 40, 42, 44mm ID and different collectors and none showed a gain in power. Very hard to make a power gain when the OEM headers are already very efficient and have no cats. I don't see how INDs could be any different and make the claimed 27whp.
__________________
"All our knowledge has its origins in our perceptions."
-Leonardo Da Vinci
CMM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 01:43 AM   #6
SchnellM3
Digger
 
SchnellM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 03 E46 M3, 09 E92 M3, 09 X6 50
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pa

Posts: 2,616
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMM3 View Post
Why would those be any different? We've seen 40, 42, 44mm ID and different collectors and none showed a gain in power. Very hard to make a power gain when the OEM headers are already very efficient and have no cats. I don't see how INDs could be any different and make the claimed 27whp.
I agree it is a big claim to make, who knows what else they have been testing. We should know soon since Nate and Ilia have said that they will be out by the end of the year.

All I was saying is that it will be interesting to see what their results are with the claims that were made and the data we have seen here and before regarding the OEM set.
__________________
2009 E92 M3 /// Melbourne Red /// Fox Red /// M DKG

Full Innotech Exhaust - DINAN Intake - IND Engine Bay Appearance - IND Hand Stitched Boot Covers - and much more....
SchnellM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 02:00 AM   #7
Mike@VAC
Captain
 
Mike@VAC's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 VF Supercharged, 135i
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Posts: 950
iTrader: (0)

The stock headers are excellent.
Mike@VAC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 07:49 AM   #8
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

Posts: 1,517
iTrader: (3)

Those are all 400 rwhp motors. What is efficient at 400 rwhp may not be efficient at 600 rwhp. I would like to see some testing on supercharged cars.

I think Supersprint also made an S65 header but that it is sold only through Hamann and maybe only as part of a package.
pbonsalb is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 08:56 AM   #9
flipm3
E46 + E90
 
Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

Posts: 2,771
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
A very informative post! This goes to show how crucial and meticulous tuning every part of a NA engine can be!

I really wish someone would try out a stepped, equal-length, long-tube, 4-1 header for this car.

Thanks again for sharing. I'm looking forward to seeing how this data compares to Motorsport24's headers.
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
flipm3 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      12-04-2011, 10:23 AM   #10
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,300
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMM3 View Post
Why would those be any different? We've seen 40, 42, 44mm ID and different collectors and none showed a gain in power. Very hard to make a power gain when the OEM headers are already very efficient and have no cats. I don't see how INDs could be any different and make the claimed 27whp.
The RD Sport headers were a different design than stock. 24 Motorsport's headers a mimic the stock design with larger tubing and an improved merge collector.

IND has made no claims on power increases nor are they the manufacturer of the headers, they just quoted the numbers that the manufacturer stated. Also, I didn't interpret the numbers that 24 Motorsport gave as 27 WHP, I thought it was 27 CHP.

Anyway time will tell if there is a gain with these. You can be sure of one thing, if IND sells them they will be a good product and the gains if any, will be independently documented!!!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 03:58 AM   #11
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,970
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR
The RD Sport headers were a different design than stock. 24 Motorsport's headers a mimic the stock design with larger tubing and an improved merge collector.
I think that was assumed because that's the only way you can do a Tri-Y header in the first place. The purpose of the thread was to demonstrate that changing the header design can cost performance, sometimes cost a lot of it as we saw with the Tri-Y design. ECU tuning would be needed to fix it, and in the case of RS46-5, the tuner wasn't able to fix it after a week of "custom tuning."

But once you introduce ECU tuning into the equation, you're no longer talking about the gains of the headers alone; you're also talking about the gains of the ECU tuning. ECU tuning already gives you 15-20whp gains (17-24chp) without changing headers. So if ECU tuning is apart of the 27hp gains, then I think it's safe to say these headers are adding very little (if any) performance.

In case you're wondering if ECU tuning was part of M24's claimed 27whp gain, take a look at their own web page (quoted below):

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate
First tests on the achievement test stand resulted in an increased output of 27 HP/22 Nm. Further the S65 specialized elbow union is a further small success in the fight against to high temperatures in BMW the M3 E90, BMW M3 E92 and BMW M3 GTS - we succeeded in lowering the exhaust gas temperatures by our specialized elbow union into combination with a software modification over up to 100 Celsius.
OK, so now we know ECU tuning was part of the gains and is also required. I just don't think any tuners will spend the time and R&D energy on a niche market that will only sell to a very small handful of people per year.
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 10:10 AM   #12
Ilia@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Ilia@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 2,150
iTrader: (3)

To my understanding it was IMG's intention to start a compendium of information on already available performance headers.

I understand that seeing a new product released to market can be very exciting and it's tough not to guess at any product's potential benefits and costs before hard data is available, but we've learned over the years that it's best to suspend judgement until production versions are available.

Of course playing with hypotheticals can be lots of fun and I would never attempt to discourage that!

Because talk turned to M24's new headers in this thread, I would like to reiterate that these pieces are still in the pre-release stages of R&D and although IND has quoted some preliminary figures directly from the manufacturer, as a company we will suspend judgement until a finished version is in our hands and available for testing.

Sorry to derail the thread! Hopefully this thread can turn into a comprehensive information database.
__________________
Ilia@IND is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 11:05 AM   #13
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,970
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND
To my understanding it was IMG's intention to start a compendium of information on already available performance headers.

I understand that seeing a new product released to market can be very exciting and it's tough not to guess at any product's potential benefits and costs before hard data is available, but we've learned over the years that it's best to suspend judgement until production versions are available.

Of course playing with hypotheticals can be lots of fun and I would never attempt to discourage that!

Because talk turned to M24's new headers in this thread, I would like to reiterate that these pieces are still in the pre-release stages of R&D and although IND has quoted some preliminary figures directly from the manufacturer, as a company we will suspend judgement until a finished version is in our hands and available for testing.

Sorry to derail the thread! Hopefully this thread can turn into a comprehensive information database.
Ilia, of course withholding judgement until independent tests are conducted on stock cars without ECU tuning is the best way to go. Hopefully this is the exact type of scientific testing that IND plans to do to determine what gains the M24 headers achieve all by themselves and without any other mods influencing the results. Hopefully your tests will add to this database of S65 header knowledge.
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 11:28 AM   #14
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,300
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Ilia, of course withholding judgement until independent tests are conducted on stock cars without ECU tuning is the best way to go. Hopefully this is the exact type of scientific testing that IND plans to do to determine what gains the M24 headers achieve all by themselves and without any other mods influencing the results. Hopefully your tests will add to this database of S65 header knowledge.
That is what I was getting at in my reply! I don't want to sound like an IND fanboy but I am quite sure IND will test these and post the numbers once a production set is available to them. They have never done me wrong or made false claims on anything I have bought from them..... Ilia has even steered me away from some products that were of interest to me because he felt they were a waste of money, and would offer no appreciable gains or were of sub-par quality.

P.S.: Thanks for the translated link!!!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 12-05-2011 at 11:34 AM.
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 04:36 PM   #15
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,970
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
That is what I was getting at in my reply! I don't want to sound like an IND fanboy but I am quite sure IND will test these and post the numbers once a production set is available to them. They have never done me wrong or made false claims on anything I have bought from them..... Ilia has even steered me away from some products that were of interest to me because he felt they were a waste of money, and would offer no appreciable gains or were of sub-par quality.

P.S.: Thanks for the translated link!!!
Im not trying to say anything bad about Ilia neither ,i know Ilia and hes one stand up person.from business,car enthusiast to knowledge. so im sure the testing will be done right by IND !
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 08:41 PM   #16
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,300
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Im not trying to say anything bad about Ilia neither ,i know Ilia and hes one stand up person.from business,car enthusiast to knowledge. so im sure the testing will be done right by IND !
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #17
bigjae1976
Takes threads off topic...daily
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Posts: 5,249
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
I'm inclined to think that there will be headers that will add power but they'll be very expensive for minimal gain.

I could see the value for a boosted engine...maybe drop the boost pressure a tad if the headers will flow more.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
bigjae1976 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 09:47 PM   #18
Radiation Joe
Veni Vidi Vici
 
Radiation Joe's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA

Posts: 2,749
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 e90 M3-Sold  [4.25]
2003 RS6 - Sold  [0.00]
2009 e90 M3 - Gone  [0.00]
2003 M3 SOLD  [0.00]
old 2002  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
A very informative post! This goes to show how crucial and meticulous tuning every part of a NA engine can be!

I really wish someone would try out a stepped, equal-length, long-tube, 4-1 header for this car.

Thanks again for sharing. I'm looking forward to seeing how this data compares to Motorsport24's headers.
Word.

I suspect the reason the tri-Y headers didn't work is due to the uneven pulses of the 90 degree crank. Try-Y works well on typical 4 cylinders with even firing pulses. It's my understanding that 4 into 1 still makes more top end power when tuned well, even on a four cylinder.
__________________

Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now.
Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard.
Radiation Joe is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-05-2011, 10:11 PM   #19
Ateam
Banned
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA

Posts: 1,109
iTrader: (0)

Could someone be so kind and explain the tri-y design difference between that and the OEM and the other type they are testing. They all look 4 into 1 to me
Ateam is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 04:43 AM   #20
dvpouldar26
Major
 
dvpouldar26's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 328i, Porsche 987.1
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

Posts: 1,464
iTrader: (4)

This topic has been beaten to death and beyond on the c63 forum in this thread, which may provide some useful information:

http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...manifolds.html

As for the m24 and rd-sport headers, I don't think its accurate to speculate about the performance gains on an N/A application and compare those to an F/I application. In N/A cars, a larger diameter primary could produce negligible gains, or even power loss because with the increased diameter, because there is also a decrease in exhaust velocity once the piping diameter is too large. Bigger is not always better. In F/I, the opposite case may apply. I have seen an e9x m3 with F/I and custom-made headers installed, and the owner did report gains, however I never saw a dyno sheet to confirm. I think there would be gains at higher boost levels, however the gains on N/A, even if they were there, probably would not be worth the expense.

On the c63's m156, there are big gains because it comes stock with log-style manifolds. On the s62's, which already comes with equal- length headers, the only place for improvement probably would be increasing the diameter of the primaries or a set of long-tubes.
__________________
E92 328i
Jet Black / Gloss Black Grilles / 8000k D1S low beam / 6000k HID fogs / GP Thunder 8500k angels & cornering bulbs / black reflectors / gloss black vinyled window trim / tints / smoked rear turn signals / black roundels / AC Schnitzer roof spoiler / VRS style decklid spoiler / Matte black Stripes / Rear fogs / matte mirrors / 19" LM reps / APR lip

Last edited by dvpouldar26; 12-06-2011 at 05:08 AM.
dvpouldar26 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 07:08 AM   #21
J08M3
Major General
 
J08M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

Posts: 6,012
iTrader: (8)

I think the issue IMG is bringing up here is the ECU tune. We already know that you can come close to 27hp with a tune. So how much added HP is being produced by the new headers?

I think the only fair test would be to take some of the full bolt-on cars that have intake filters, and full exhausts already, ECU tune, etc... the one's making close to 400hp, and then see if they have much gain from headers. Then do the same with the SC cars to see if the benefits are only realized on FI.

Also important to note, is peak HP is not the only factor to look at. Really depends on your application. If you have a full out race car that spends almost all time at high RPM it may be completely different than someone who drives their car on the street.
__________________
J08M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-06-2011, 12:08 PM   #22
Sal@Evolve
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

Posts: 1,060
iTrader: (0)

Nice comparisons.

Really shows the 4-2-1 requires loads of calibration to get them to work correctly.
Sal@Evolve is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST