BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-08-2013, 02:16 PM   #1
KROD
Second Lieutenant
KROD's Avatar
United_States
7
Rep
219
Posts

 
Drives: IB E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

Need advice: Modded NA do the trick or Supercharge at 6x the Cost?????

Have two options and two very different costs. I am torn between the two and need help deciding on which option is the overall better choice:

1) Test pipes, pulley, intake, tune @ ~$1,500 (including install) = +30 - 40whp gain

2) Stage 2 supercharger (used) @ ~$9,000 (including labor) = +150 - 170whp gain +

If money wasn't an option then obviously the SC would be the no brainer. I only plan on daily driving my car with the occasional joy ride and street race, with no track time planned. For those that have experience with each setup can you please advise on if the SC is worth it at 6x the price or is the car fun enough and a big difference from stock with just the test pipes and tune? Help Please!!!!
__________________
Space Grey E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:20 PM   #2
Longboarder
Brigadier General
66
Rep
3,810
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Just try the test pipes, pulley, intake and tune first. If you get an ESS tune, you can carry over the tune (there is a modest update fee) and test pipes if you go the ESS SC route.

I've been in the MRF Engineering e92 M3 with only catless exhaust/tune making 404 wheel and it was soooooo much faster than a stock M3. I was really impressed with it.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:25 PM   #3
Superfly_M3
Captain
18
Rep
964
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Many people who have gone the NA route have said later on "should have bought the charger instead". Power is addictive and you will be searching for more after you get used to the 40whp gains.

That being said, ESS makes great kits for our cars that are both reliable and fun to own. Your biggest issue with the charger will be traction - especially 1st and 2nd gear. Once you go with the charger, wider tires are a must and brake upgrade is highly recomended - so the SC will bring additional cost with it.

Eventually even with the charger, you might buy a catless exhaust - which is good for 30whp peak gain at the least, and a big jump throughout the powerband. So perhaps the exhaust is a good starting point. If you spend your money on the pulley, intake and tune, and then decide to go SC you would have wasted your money because the hardware you can resell at 50-60% cost, and the tune you cannot.

My advice is to go for a drive with someone who has a SC to see if the power is the right thing for you.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:27 PM   #4
Superfly_M3
Captain
18
Rep
964
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Just try the test pipes, pulley, intake and tune first. If you get an ESS tune, you can carry over the tune (there is a modest update fee) and test pipes if you go the ESS SC route.

I've been in the MRF Engineering e92 M3 with only catless exhaust/tune making 404 wheel and it was soooooo much faster than a stock M3. I was really impressed with it.
Also just to point out. Different dynos measure differently. West Coast guys seem to be getting higher numbers regardless of the mods. For example bone stock M3 will dyno at 356whp out west. My base dyno was 339whp. Its really important to base dyno and before the mods and then dyno again at the same shop. Once you pick a dyno, you're kinda stuck to it if you really want to see objective results.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #5
happos2
Dingleberries
18
Rep
1,183
Posts

 
Drives: Gray E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana

iTrader: (3)

I think the money is a little off on 1) above. Tune is $900 at the least, usually close to $1000. Pullies are aroudn $300 ish, test pipes are $400-$500, intake $300 or just the filter is ~<$100. Then labor on top of all that, probably looking north of $2000. Based on everything new and you paying a shop for labor.

If you buy used, maybe you get closer to your $1500, not sure about inluding labor though in that number.

Just my .02, still cheaper the supercharging so my above points are pretty worthless.

I am doing #1 above, in the future might consider #2, but becuase I love the track, I need to fix the nut behind the wheel before I get a bunch more power behind me!
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:36 PM   #6
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
91
Rep
3,584
Posts


 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

iTrader: (5)

Sc route .... The power will bring a smile to your face every time you touch the pedal.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 02:50 PM   #7
j2m
Colonel
j2m's Avatar
Canada
48
Rep
2,452
Posts

 
Drives: '11 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [5.00]
You are caught up in the vortex that most of us get sucked into at one point or another.
Don't over-think it.
If you can afford then blow, if not tune
__________________

11' E92 M3 Space Grey | DCT | ESS VT2- 625 | Gintani Race (valved) + Quad Res Catless X-Pipe | KW Sleeve's | GC Camber Plates|Arkym Diffuser | Vorsteiner VRS Lip | P3 Boost Guage | Stud Conversion
PHOTO's: Click Here ESS VT2 625 PHOTOS: Click Here
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 03:10 PM   #8
Chriskm3
Colonel
Chriskm3's Avatar
Canada
28
Rep
2,218
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by j2m View Post
You are caught up in the vortex that most of us get sucked into at one point or another.
Don't over-think it.
If you can afford then blow, if not tune
+1.
I think the first mistake was already made. What if.... Statements lead to supercharging, exhausts, brakes wheels and never seem to stop. It's like a addiction it's hard to stop once you take the initial hit. Good luck.
Happy modding
__________________
Vf supercharger + tune/H&R coils/ Akra evolution exhaust/Volk te37/ Rs-3 tires/ Brembos /TIal BOV/ OSS blacked out headlights/LUX v3/Led taillights/ Challenge Front lip/ P3 vent gauge/ F10 m5 shift mob/Matte black front grills/ And a funky air fresher
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
Roman@ESS
Roman@ESS's Avatar
109
Rep
2,664
Posts

 
Drives: ESS Supercharged E92 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KROD View Post
Have two options and two very different costs. I am torn between the two and need help deciding on which option is the overall better choice:

1) Test pipes, pulley, intake, tune @ ~$1,500 (including install) = +30 - 40whp gain

2) Stage 2 supercharger (used) @ ~$9,000 (including labor) = +150 - 170whp gain +

If money wasn't an option then obviously the SC would be the no brainer. I only plan on daily driving my car with the occasional joy ride and street race, with no track time planned. For those that have experience with each setup can you please advise on if the SC is worth it at 6x the price or is the car fun enough and a big difference from stock with just the test pipes and tune? Help Please!!!!
A stage 2 SC can add 175-200 whp
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 04:03 PM   #10
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
329
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
A stage 2 SC can add 175-200 whp
Here's a good example of that on a e92 M3 with an ESS VT2-625:



Full info in this thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=791701
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #11
Nautik
Captain
12
Rep
632
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 AW M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NoVA

iTrader: (0)

If you are breaking down the cost differential then I would probably argue the SC is not worth it right now. If 10k is a drop in the bucket for you then go with the SC.
__________________
2009 e92 M3 - AW DCT - Apex Arc8s - Corsa
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 06:18 PM   #12
Bushido Brown
Private
Bushido Brown's Avatar
0
Rep
90
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 MCB M5
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (1)

Supercharge it. I was in your shoes a while ago. I bought test pipes and a tune and I was ok for a little while. Just as others have said, power is addictive. You'll get used to the power and want more. So to answer your question, a SC is well worth it. It'll feel like a totally different car once it's installed
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 06:57 PM   #13
NikB316
Lieutenant
NikB316's Avatar
14
Rep
596
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 M5 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somerset County, New Jersey

iTrader: (4)

Go the FI route. You'll just want more going with a tune, etc. If you want to save some money start with a Stage 1 setup but at the end of the day you'll spend more on upgrading. Get in touch with Andrew@Active and you'll be a VERY happy owner
__________________

2014 M5 Competition Alpine/Sakhir
BMS Tune. Undercover Performance Custom Downpipes & Connector. H&R 10mm Spacers. BMW CF Rear Spoiler. IND Cosmetics. ALP & BEL Radar & Laser.
2011 Space Grey E92 M3 AA Gen 2 Lvl 3 586whp 398wtq SAE (sold)
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 07:02 PM   #14
Uiop
Private First Class
2
Rep
156
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

If you are concerned with cost, I'd go FBO
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 07:25 PM   #15
Dave07997S
Colonel
38
Rep
2,556
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3 ZCP Coupe
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Playa del Rey, CA

iTrader: (1)

The testpipes will still aid power even in a S/C'd environment. This is most of the hp gain for the normally aspirated route. In fact it could be worth more hp in a blown environment then in a NA one.

Dave
__________________
2013 M3 Coupe-MR/BLK ZCP, ACM test pipes, BPM Stg2 dev. tune and Megan catback, AFE Stg2. with C/F elbow
Previous rides: 2011 M3 Coupe-MR/Blk
2007 Porsche 997C2S Speed Yellow/Blk sport seats
2004 BMW M3 Imola/Blk
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #16
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
22
Rep
1,800
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

I have never had too much power. Always wanted more. But my 08M3 has all the bolt on mods because they are all I can afford at present. I may be looking for a used supercharger in a couple of years.
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 08:51 PM   #17
ms372
White Shark
ms372's Avatar
Canada
21
Rep
911
Posts

 
Drives: AW E92 m3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

you need to take into account that test pipes and tune do carry over to your supercharger ( **most companies give a discount if you already had their tune on your car)
__________________
ESS | Challenge x-pipe | Akrapovic | Stoptech BBK (380/355) |Ohlins R&T | Dinan | Vorsteiner | Downforce USA | Varis Diffuser | Gintani | UUC | BMW Performance | Macht Schnell | Forgestar F14's SDC 19x9.5F 19x11R | 255.35 295.30

Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 11:00 PM   #18
Alex07M3
Colonel
27
Rep
2,154
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3, Evo X MR, A4 Allroad
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Gatineau

iTrader: (1)

get test pipes and ESS tune for 1500$ and when you'll want more, buy a used VT1 for around 5k!
__________________
ESS VT1, M Performance exhaust, Turner test pipes, KW V3s, Michelin PSS 255/295
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 11:06 PM   #19
GOLFFRR
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
GOLFFRR's Avatar
277
Rep
17,381
Posts


 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

iTrader: (4)

ESS Blower if you can swing it. If not def ESS Tune and bolt ons
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL US FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote or assistance from David? GO HERE-->bmwdavid@icloud.com or 202-262-2900
David's ED special ALL M cars-->http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042739
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2013, 11:06 PM   #20
joe@trinityautosport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
joe@trinityautosport's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
516
Posts


 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tustin CA

iTrader: (7)

Send a message via AIM to joe@trinityautosport
Quote:
Originally Posted by KROD View Post
Have two options and two very different costs. I am torn between the two and need help deciding on which option is the overall better choice:

1) Test pipes, pulley, intake, tune @ ~$1,500 (including install) = +30 - 40whp gain

2) Stage 2 supercharger (used) @ ~$9,000 (including labor) = +150 - 170whp gain +

If money wasn't an option then obviously the SC would be the no brainer. I only plan on daily driving my car with the occasional joy ride and street race, with no track time planned. For those that have experience with each setup can you please advise on if the SC is worth it at 6x the price or is the car fun enough and a big difference from stock with just the test pipes and tune? Help Please!!!!
I had option #1 full rpi exhaust, ms pulley/intake, rpi scoops, and no tune, and had about 404 whp on a dynojet. BUT I wasn't happy with the power so I went with the VF620 kit and now I'm happy. With both setups I daily the car and track it at least once a month.
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2013, 01:13 PM   #21
KROD
Second Lieutenant
KROD's Avatar
United_States
7
Rep
219
Posts

 
Drives: IB E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Texas

iTrader: (2)

I had an 08 m3 then went to a GTR and now back to the M. If I knew I would be here long term I would definitely get the SC (job mobility), but I may end up loosing the cost in install and tune, and then to de-install and re-tune back to stock which is my biggest heartache bc its intangible costs that are just lost. With option 1 I could easily take the mods off and sell and not be too much in the hole. I did drive 2 stage 1 SC'd cars, and wasn't too impressed with the power at that level which is why I think I need at least a stage 2. What do you guys think about stage 1 vs stage 2?
__________________
Space Grey E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2013, 01:38 PM   #22
FormulaMMM
Major
FormulaMMM's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
1,445
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KROD View Post
I had an 08 m3 then went to a GTR and now back to the M. If I knew I would be here long term I would definitely get the SC (job mobility), but I may end up loosing the cost in install and tune, and then to de-install and re-tune back to stock which is my biggest heartache bc its intangible costs that are just lost. With option 1 I could easily take the mods off and sell and not be too much in the hole. I did drive 2 stage 1 SC'd cars, and wasn't too impressed with the power at that level which is why I think I need at least a stage 2. What do you guys think about stage 1 vs stage 2?
I'd go modded NA first. But if you're really thinking that you'll supercharge down the road, I wouldn't go too deep into NA parts that you can't utilize when you do so.

Test pipes or a catless mid-section, filter (not intake), and tune might satisfy you for a while. I was pleasantly surprised when I went catless + tune. Perhaps see if ESS (if this is your preferred supercharger co.) will work out a deal with you on multiple tunes, i.e. if you purchase their NA tune, a discount on the future tune for the blower. Don't know if they do that.

If you're not satisfied with the NA power bump, then I'd say you'll want VT2 straightaway.
__________________
DCT E90 M3: Akrapovic Evolution, KW Clubsport, Stoptech ST-40 Front + Pagid RS29 | Stock Rear + Stoptech SP, Apex ARC-8 + Hankook Ventus S1 noble2 275/35/18 (street), Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25 + Nitto NT01 275/35/18 (track), tbd...
Past: Velos Designwerks Tune, Megan Racing Catback, Macht Schnell Filter
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST