I tried trading my 11 E92 ZCP for 911 Turbo S

[Nine]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

As someone who was a car salesman, the salesman probably just realized that if OP wasn't going to get approved it wasn't worth wasting his time trying.

Car salesmen are VERY BUSY!

I'd have to agree, a true salesman would have made a deal that day, regardless. Always Be Closing. Leads are shit, you are shit. I don't understand how they didn't hook the OP with another car, a lease or something else.

If I were the sales person, I would have put the OP in a nice pre-owned GT3 or something so he wouldn't lose as much equity as he will with the M3, and put him on a schedule for a Turbo S in 16-24 months, I definetly would not turn the sale down and send him away...then again I'm not in sales.

In terms of 250k and rich, I think 250k and you are well-off, I also think 250k is not a straight number, the calculation is different and it depends on how much you pay in taxes. For example my GF is in sales and while a majority of my income is salaried, her commission is killed with taxes, so while before taxes we are close, after taxes I'm far ahead. Further, somepeople route expenses through their companies and 250k, is really like 500k to others because of write-offs. Or Dr. paying insurance...etc. It is really difficult to level the playing field of salary, 100k+ in north or south carolina is living, in NYC not so much.

Money is a funny thing, as soon as you think you are 'making it' you start to figure out that making it is 100x what you are doing.

[Darth One]

looks like many of the 1% are on here.

if we're not careful the 99% will find out and then here comes Occupy M3 Forum!

[taleof2bricks]

Originally Posted by Cyrax91;10799123[I

]I dont want to say exactly how much I make or anything, but its less then the OP. And I own an M3, Evo IX MR and just bought a 335i. I also own a home and pay a mortgage[/i]. My GF is still finishing school and doesnt make much of anything right now. Anyways, my point is that I easily afford this stuff because of lifestyle. We arent married and dont plan on having kids any time soon. I have friends who make what I do and they're struggling to make payments on a house because they've decided to start a family and have 2 kids now. I think much of this stuff is all relative with living situation. I also have a dumb ass friend who pays like $500 a month in rent on a small apartment and owns an M3 ha.

You only live once. If you're making $250k a year and your living situation allows you to afford a Turbo S then find a dealership that will sell you one and get it done !

Well....there goes your theory, that all on here are "rich"! Time to start from scratch!

I have heard just about everything and will not take another look at this thread!

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by erio

I have not lost my perspective. I just think that the term "rich" is relative. 250k makes up about the top 1.5% of households.

Yes, but earlier, you posted that you considered an income of $350k "upper middle class", and yet now you are saying an income of $250k puts you in the top 1.5%.

How's this:

Poor=bottom 20%
Lower Middle=20-40th percentile
Middle=40-60th percentile
Upper Middle=60-80th percentile
Upper=80th percentile and up

I agree it is all a matter of definition, but how can you call the 99th percentile "upper middle class"?

[donovan]

If I was making that, I would never drive a m3 again except for on the track...weeiirddd I know

The 997 turbo would be the daily. e46 m3 with s85 swap would be the track

In the words of Wayne, " I walk up the club, f*ck everybody". Get that dream like I bought my e46 m3 dream at age of 22

[Brucewonder]

Originally Posted by VVG

Yes, but earlier, you posted that you considered an income of $350k "upper middle class", and yet now you are saying an income of $250k puts you in the top 1.5%.

How's this:

Poor=bottom 20%
Lower Middle=20-40th percentile
Middle=40-60th percentile
Upper Middle=60-80th percentile
Upper=80th percentile and up

I agree it is all a matter of definition, but how can you call the 99th percentile "upper middle class"?

This is M3post, everyone's rich and date super models O_o

[mmmpowered]

Originally Posted by Brucewonder

This is M3post, everyone's rich and date super models O_o

I'm actually in the upper middle class, and I date super models O_o

[erio]

Originally Posted by VVG

Yes, but earlier, you posted that you considered an income of $350k "upper middle class", and yet now you are saying an income of $250k puts you in the top 1.5%.

How's this:

Poor=bottom 20%
Lower Middle=20-40th percentile
Middle=40-60th percentile
Upper Middle=60-80th percentile
Upper=80th percentile and up

I agree it is all a matter of definition, but how can you call the 99th percentile "upper middle class"?

Yes top 1.5% household income. That doesn't mean "rich" in my book. 250k or 350k is an amazing income, but don't be upset that I don't consider that rich. The term rich to me really depends on a combination of total net worth, debt, AND income. If we are strictly talking about income alone, I would say for example that someone who makes 1.5m/year is probably rich. I believe most sociologists define it as the wealthiest 1%. This term is very subjective. I guess another factor would be location. 350k in some parts of the country will not get you near as far as others in terms or property, taxes, etc.

[MDSKIER]

Originally Posted by E92_SID

+1 million!

I am getting tired of all these threads popping up where people are saying "70k at 22 years old is not a lot", "250k a year at 34 is not a lot", "100k a year aint shit". What the hell is wrong with you guys! You guys who are posting comments like that just sound like arrogant ass holes who are way out of touch of reality! You guys must have been born with a golden spoon in your mouth because you make 100k sound like poverty. Yes with 100k you probably dont have a vacation home in Hawaii and you cant afford to pay cash for everything but still, 100k a year can provide a very good life; it just depends on your life style and location that you choose to live.

[nick3753]

With rising tuition and therefore higher and higher student loans, coupled with a poor housing market with a poor economy, the average net worth for many professionals especially those on the younger side, say less than 45 or so, may likely have a low or negative net worth since your net worth is largely from your equity in a home plus investments minus debt. It's all relative, of course making 250k will allow you to catch up much faster than making 50k, but still takes time, discipline and maybe a little luck.

[persian54]

I think to truly be "rich" you shouldn't need to rely on "income" form a 'job' at all

To be, to be "rich' means to be financially secure and established to a point where even if you didn't work another day in your life, you could still maintain a similar lifestyle.

This can really only be achieved through residual income, be it from real estate, dividends, businesses, etc.
Or you just won the lottery
This is just my personal opinion, doesn't have to fit your opinion/idea

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by persian54

I think to truly be "rich" you shouldn't need to rely on "income" form a 'job' at all

To be, to be "rich' means to be financially secure and established to a point where even if you didn't work another day in your life, you could still maintain a similar lifestyle.

This can really only be achieved through residual income, be it from real estate, dividends, businesses, etc.
Or you just won the lottery
This is just my personal opinion, doesn't have to fit your opinion/idea

Ever hear the term "idle rich". This is what you are referring to. There is also the "working rich" which is probably the category that most M3 owners belong to. Sure there is money, but we have to keep working to sustain the lifestyle.

The problem is that you can't really lump the "top 1%" together. Here's why:

Example:

20th percentile=$20,000
99th percentile=$350,000

This is a factor of 17.5 over 79 percent of the population. The top 1%, however spans over a factor of 1000, if you take $350,000 as the bottom and $350,000,000 as the top (which is still a very conservative top number)

The top of the top 1% is in a far, far, far different place than the bottom of the top 1%.

[Z K]

Use this calculator to figure out what percent you are in in terms of income.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/...rcent-are-you/

$250,000 annual income is higher than 96% of US households. To be in the top 1%, income has to be greater than $500,000.

[Team Plutonium]

Originally Posted by VVG

Ever here the term "idle rich". This is what you are referring to. There is also the "working rich" which is probably the category that most M3 owners belong to. Sure there is money, but we have to keep working to sustain the lifestyle.

The problem is that you can't really lump the "top 1%" together. Here's why:

Example:

20th percentile=$20,000
99th percentile=$350,000

This is a factor of 17.5 over 79 percent of the population. The top 1%, however spans over a factor of 1000, if you take $350,000 as the bottom and $350,000,000 as the top (which is still a very conservative top number)

The top of the top 1% is in a far, far, far different place than the bottom of the top 1%.

+1 Well said.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by VVG

The top of the top 1% is in a far, far, far different place than the bottom of the top 1%.

As in the case with most of the world

[NOTFA5T]

Originally Posted by VVG

Ever here the term "idle rich". This is what you are referring to. There is also the "working rich" which is probably the category that most M3 owners belong to. Sure there is money, but we have to keep working to sustain the lifestyle.

The problem is that you can't really lump the "top 1%" together. Here's why:

Example:

20th percentile=$20,000
99th percentile=$350,000

This is a factor of 17.5 over 79 percent of the population. The top 1%, however spans over a factor of 1000, if you take $350,000 as the bottom and $350,000,000 as the top (which is still a very conservative top number)

The top of the top 1% is in a far, far, far different place than the bottom of the top 1%.

Very strong point.

[gemini330zhp]

Go to a Nissan dealership and get a GTR and be done with it!!!!

[termigni]

i call BS to the OP.

no SA will turn you down in this economy as long as your bank doesn't turn you down.

Also if i was 34, and KNEW i was a potential buyer of a new car, i would've never let the SA look down on me like that.

[Sean05]

Heres is my take on this...

1. Credit....
2. Money....
3........ if both are good or if even just 2 is good TRUST ME... THEY WONT CARE AND WILL SELL YOU THAT IN A HEART BEAT.... ... lol...

[Gubbins]

Just be grateful you got away before you made a mistake. Nothing worse than waking up during the night after you've bought too much car, and thinking to yourself "**** what did I just do!!!". Been there, done that (many years ago).

And others have pointed out, income level is actually meaningless. Net income is what matters, and if you are burdened by excessive debt, children, wives, ex-wives, etc, $250k/year can disappear in a hurry.

Also... For the same price as that P-car you can have an M3 AND a GT-R... Think about it. It's a great combo.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Gubbins

Also... For the same price as that P-car you can have an M3 AND a GT-R... Think about it. It's a great combo.

That is a great point.

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by VVG

I guess it depends what your other financial obligations are. If you make that type of money and have no kids, or don't own much real estate, then go for it.

Still, a turbo S is a near exotic. Keep in mind that most people who can afford one can afford to pay cash and not even blink. Also, anyone looking to spend over $100k on a car and who needs to finance it, probably shouldn't be spending that much on a car.

That's not necessarily true. I know people that finance exotic cars. They don't have quite enough to pay cash, but they're able to put enough down to make the car's payments acceptable. Like you said, we don't know his finances. Any $170,000 car is going to be iffy when looking at financing these days, but just because you can't pay full cash up front doesn't mean you can't afford it; a Porsche, especially. I mean, a Lamborghini or Ferrari, sure. I could understand you saying that, because those cars have a high level of money spent on maintenance each year. A Porsche isn't really like that, though. So dollar for dollar, a Turbo S is a much more sound investment when looking at it from a maintenance standpoint...

Get off the guy's nuts, guys. I used to be a car salesman and had this talk with people numerous times. I didn't want to embarrass them by giving them a hit on their credit, or just showing them a potential car payment that's potentially too much for them. Most people respected it. It was when I went through the process, i.e., running credit, checking finances, etc., that they'd get pissed off when they just took the car for a drive, got all excited about it, only to tell them that it wouldn't happen...

I say, whether your finances are in order, this was a nicer client adviser. He has balls, but that's because he's probably been in the game long enough to not be afraid of them. So consider yourself lucky he gave you credible and honest information up front.