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      11-08-2011, 06:27 PM   #1
tpowerdinny
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Trying to Add Torque, Any Recommendations? Got a few mods so far

Looking to add a little more torque to the M3 (DCT).

Only "performance mods" are
- Megan Racing Exhaust
- aFe Pro Dry S Filter/Dynamic Air Scoops
- Pulley Kit

I don't want to go FI right now. I don't want to have to modify any stock parts. I'd like to just do simple swaps of things without blowing CELs everywhere. I wouldn't mind more sound but no crazy rasp or popping.

I'd love to hear any idea or recommendations.

X-Pipe?
Tune?
Headers?

Last edited by tpowerdinny; 11-13-2011 at 02:44 AM. Reason: More appropriate
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      11-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #2
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What differences did you notice with the pulley (what brand of pulley). I haven't got my M3 yet, but would like to know about the pulley mod.
Thanks
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      11-08-2011, 06:40 PM   #3
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Turner test pipes or full x pipe that replaces or removes the primary cats will add noticeable low end tq and overall power gains

Also, a tune will help add a bit of power as well, but not as much as the primary cat delete will
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      11-08-2011, 06:52 PM   #4
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Torque is harder to come by than horsepower. The rear exhaust you bought does pretty much nothing. The pulley and filter do something. The next two mods are a full or partial cat delete midpipe and a tune.

A lower ratio diff will multiply torque more, at the expense of higher highway rpm, which is already high by today's standards (because BMW knew it was making a high rpm low torque motor and needed to give it all the help it reasonably could through low ratio gearing).

Nothing else you can do besides a displacement bump, which is more expensive than a supercharger kit, or a supercharger kit.
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      11-08-2011, 06:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Turner test pipes or full x pipe that replaces or removes the primary cats will add noticeable low end tq and overall power gains

Also, a tune will help add a bit of power as well, but not as much as the primary cat delete will
actually an xpipe (like Akra) will give a drop in initial low end torque
the absence of the back pressure there you will feel a drop if you have catless primaries

I went from a 200cell AA Xpipe (where the 200 CELL replaced the primary 400 cell, and eliminates the secondary cats altogether), to an Akra Evo (catless primary to 100 cell secondaries), and although I feel more power overall, I do feel a drop in low end torque.
I haven't re-dynoed after the Akra, so I can't give you numbers, only my feeling.
which i think is more valuable (to me at least) that numbers on a dyno.
Overall though, the car is faster with the Akra vs the AA, but there is also a big weight drop so I can't tell you if the power bump I feel is more the Akra being better than the AA, or the weight.

Please excuse my poor grammar, I'm exhausted.

Drop some weight (lighter rims/tires, Ti exhaust), primary cat delete, and tune.
best you can really do short of a s/c
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      11-08-2011, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
actually an xpipe (like Akra) will give a drop in initial low end torque
the absence of the back pressure there you will feel a drop if you have catless primaries

I went from a 200cell AA Xpipe (where the 200 CELL replaced the primary 400 cell, and eliminates the secondary cats altogether), to an Akra Evo (catless primary to 100 cell secondaries), and although I feel more power overall, I do feel a drop in low end torque.
I haven't re-dynoed after the Akra, so I can't give you numbers, only my feeling.
which i think is more valuable (to me at least) that numbers on a dyno.
Overall though, the car is faster with the Akra vs the AA, but there is also a big weight drop so I can't tell you if the power bump I feel is more the Akra being better than the AA, or the weight.

Please excuse my poor grammar, I'm exhausted.

Drop some weight (lighter rims/tires, Ti exhaust), primary cat delete, and tune.
best you can really do short of a s/c
dyno numbers indicate that the akra is an anomaly in this sense. all other dynos i have seen of catless primary setups show a large increase in low end torque.

I have driven a car that within the same day had a stock x pipe, then to fabspeed full x pipe and hfc, back to stock x pipe, back to fabspeed setup.

There was a substantial difference in power below 3500 rpm to say the least.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308065
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      11-08-2011, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
dyno numbers indicate that the akra is an anomaly in this sense. all other dynos i have seen of catless primary setups show a large increase in low end torque.

I have driven a car that within the same day had a stock x pipe, then to fabspeed full x pipe and hfc, back to stock x pipe, back to fabspeed setup.

There was a substantial difference in power below 3500 rpm to say the least.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308065
Since I only have personal experience with AA and Akra, I can't comment on other set ups

Thanks for the info

The fabspeed set up, where are the cats positioned? What type of cats are used? what cell?
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      11-08-2011, 07:33 PM   #8
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335is with a tune
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-08-2011, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Since I only have personal experience with AA and Akra, I can't comment on other set ups

Thanks for the info

The fabspeed set up, where are the cats positioned? What type of cats are used? what cell?
200 cell hjs cats in the same position as the primaries. Secondary cat delete and includes resonators
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      11-08-2011, 07:40 PM   #10
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I had Akra EVO for 2 weeks. Lower end torque definitely improved. Now I am running iPE F1, I haven't yet to drive enough to compare the two. But for now I think the Akra EVO has more torque.
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      11-08-2011, 08:41 PM   #11
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There is big difference with a Akra evo with a tune vs without. In low end response. With the akra a tune is a must IMO.
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      11-08-2011, 08:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f32458 View Post
I had Akra EVO for 2 weeks. Lower end torque definitely improved. Now I am running iPE F1, I haven't yet to drive enough to compare the two. But for now I think the Akra EVO has more torque.
Any more pictures of the iPE F1? Mine should be arriving late next week.
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      11-08-2011, 08:54 PM   #13
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335is with a tune


Better exhaust. A $600 exhaust won't do much to your car. And a Dinan diff is a great addition as well. Also, replacing the stock x-pipe and cats with high flow cats or catless then adding a tune that takes advantage of your full exhaust with hfc/catless + intake + pulley will definitely bump up torque and hp. Don't bother with headers, as the only ones available are $7200 (forgot which vendor's site I saw them for sale on).
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      11-08-2011, 08:55 PM   #14
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get a gtr!

(thats what I'm trying to do!)
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      11-08-2011, 09:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline9001 View Post
There is big difference with a Akra evo with a tune vs without. In low end response. With the akra a tune is a must IMO.
1

Our tune is specific for it, it really does effect the torque that much.
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      11-08-2011, 09:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshab356 View Post


Better exhaust. A $600 exhaust won't do much to your car. And a Dinan diff is a great addition as well. Also, replacing the stock x-pipe and cats with high flow cats or catless then adding a tune that takes advantage of your full exhaust with hfc/catless + intake + pulley will definitely bump up torque and hp. Don't bother with headers, as the only ones available are $7200 (forgot which vendor's site I saw them for sale on).
A $3000 rear exhaust won't do much for your car, either. From BMW, you get a "more powerful sound" for your $3k. From Akra, you get 3 rwhp for your $3k.

It is the midpipe where the significant gains can be made.
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      11-08-2011, 09:31 PM   #17
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X-pipe, tune, Diff.
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      11-08-2011, 10:01 PM   #18
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xpipe and tune........still you wont have alot of torque...if your primary concern is torque you should get another car....even with blowers the S65 has an anemic torque curve
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      11-08-2011, 10:58 PM   #19
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cat delete + xpipe + tune
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      11-08-2011, 10:58 PM   #20
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Getting in the right gear will yield all the torque you need in this car. Seriously. Especially if you have DCT, it's as easy as it gets. I have a 6MT and have no issues getting itnot he right gear. Drive it the way it's designed to be driven; get the engine running in its sweet spot. It's pointless to do otherwise, imo.
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      11-08-2011, 11:04 PM   #21
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better fuel. try blending 75% 100 octane and there you go, 30hp over 91
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      11-08-2011, 11:30 PM   #22
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The people that complain about "low torque" are always the people who are not driving it above 6k RPMS. If you want to move and get some thrust which is torque to the wheels than keep it above 6k and have fun. "torque" as you call it is simply engine torque which is helpful only at low rpms which you should never see with this car. Engine, rpm and gearing create wheel torque which for this car is key.

Also to the person said the exhaust causes loss of low end torque due to "decreased back pressure" that is a clear indicator you learned everything you speak of off google searches. That is the oldest myth on the net for an exhaust. You lose velocity of exhaust gases with larger piped exhaust systems so that will cause loss of torque but removing a cat and keepin otherwise same size piping will do nothing but increase torque throughout the band.
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