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      11-27-2007, 09:52 AM   #595
dr335is
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I guess both of you are pulling your own ways...
FYI, science has never proved the age of the Universe, and the size of it. The science has never proved that the time is 4th dimension and the relativity of it...and that is what some brilliant minds are working on and they do not care about the religion...

On the other hand, it is also well known that some brilliant minds have accepted religion but not as the source of proof and help to derive proofs but simply as the source of comfort...

And then, some of them (like above mentioned Pope and mafia around him) have accepted it as the source of HUGE income since as we all know Vatican and a few fat heads in there are the richest and most influential people in the world...

One thing for sure is that in order to control people, you have to introduce them to the belief and take them away from the science and proofs of reality. Commies did it, Dictators did it, Hitler did it, Stalin...and Bush did it with his fear theory and imminent daily threat...
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      11-27-2007, 10:51 AM   #596
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Sorry I dont mean the exact dates, but we have many approximations. That's not really the point though, the real point though is that the nature of the universe has proven that it isnt infinite and hasnt always existed. Merely by studying the expansion of the universe we can see that galaxies are moving away from each other and can be traced back to a point.
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      11-27-2007, 01:22 PM   #597
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the source of comfort...
Exactly! Not different from a bottle of beer.
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      11-27-2007, 01:37 PM   #598
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Sorry I dont mean the exact dates, but we have many approximations. That's not really the point though, the real point though is that the nature of the universe has proven that it isnt infinite and hasnt always existed. Merely by studying the expansion of the universe we can see that galaxies are moving away from each other and can be traced back to a point.
By the same idea a "few" years back we thought that the Sun orbits the Earth, and many other things... That is why are we trying to discover what was before it was. Assuming that some "God" or whatever just farted it out and then made it perfect for life to develop is really neither a proof nor realistic belief... It is, as mentioned before, just the way to re-define what is unknown to fit the masses belief.

It was never proven that the nature of universe is or is not infinite. where is the year zero? WHere does the BC (or BM for you) end? Is there a fourth dimension?

So, in the eyes of some, it is very impossible that there is something up there deciding whats next...no one has EVER proven that or even attempted to prove it. Of course, the science has to have a starting point or any kind of evidence to even try to dis-prove something...
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      11-27-2007, 02:45 PM   #599
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I'll tell you why I laugh, I notice a patern just like you. All of the things you post have been discussed for years and years. People use the verses from the Quran like you do without a historical context never mind the context of the Quran itself to attack Islam. I've seen it all before, it's nothing new and it's been explained a thousand times.


I am not attacking islam. I'm just making an observation that religion is nonsense. You've dragged your Allah into this. Now be ready to defend you points of view.


Yeah you are right my mind is free unlike some other muslims,

I've never said that your mind is free! I said that you are insecure about your existance and seek refuge and a quick fix in religion.


Anyway, I have a critical mind and the most important thing is that the Quran, WHOEVER the author is, tells us to have a critical mind and observe nature and science.

You can NOT believe in Allah and read Quran and think critically. Can't be done. Just like you can't pull up on your boots and lift yourself of the ground.

Look forget Islam for a minute, all I'm saying is that Science has established that the universe is not infinite. We can prove this by the dates of it's "birth" etc and also by it's nature. To believe it was always there is an old belief that has long died out. Moving on, the universe must have some cause for it to come into existance. Either it was created or uncreated, and we KNOW that matter, energy, particles etc cant just start to appear from nothing. That's why the theory of evolution fails, it cannot explain how a living cell can come into existence...


JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THE UNIVERSE CAME ABOUT, DOESN'T MEEN THAT GOD EXISTS. TO CLAIM SO IS JUST BEING LAZY AND IGNORANT. SCIENCE IS OK TO ACCEPT THAT IT DOESN'T KNOW THINGS. RELIGION HAS A QUICK FIX FOR EVERYTHING.

This leaves the conclusion in my mind that it must have been created like the Quran describes. Whoever the author of the Quran was, they were right. There is no flaw in any of this creation and there are many balances and perfections in design.[/quote]


AGAIN:
JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THE UNIVERSE CAME ABOUT, DOESN'T MEEN THAT GOD EXISTS. TO CLAIM SO IS JUST BEING LAZY AND IGNORANT.
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      11-27-2007, 02:48 PM   #600
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Gravitational time dilation

Quote from Wikipedia:

"Gravitational time dilation is the effect of time passing at different rates in regions of different gravitational potential; the higher the local distortion of spacetime due to gravity, the slower time passes. Albert Einstein originally predicted this effect in his theory of relativity and it has since been confirmed by tests of general relativity."
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      11-27-2007, 02:49 PM   #601
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HKS786, could you please explain the following paragraph from the Quran?

Sura (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great
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      11-27-2007, 06:17 PM   #602
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Sura (@#$%12:343##)

"Thy, shalt NOT post on Tuesday"
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      11-29-2007, 04:44 PM   #603
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HKS786 where are you friend? Hope everything's fine...
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      12-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #604
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My broother is alive and well....I google'd his name and he popped out on a distant forum...he just can't hold his/her own on tjis one..
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      12-10-2007, 09:40 PM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwid View Post
Ever wonder why there are only 2 something percent of atheists? Just like not everyone can be top of the class, only a few are smart enough NOT to succumb to such "delusions".
Where did you get 2% from? There are a lot more of us out there!
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      12-14-2007, 12:41 PM   #606
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People like to have a membership in some kind of club and often like to have several memberships. Atheists don't really have a club, so it's less attractive to an average joe because there are no gatherings on the weekends and no holiday festivities. It's all about herd instinct and the desire to get entertained.
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      12-14-2007, 12:47 PM   #607
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To HKS786:

"historical context" is one of the biggest bullshits one can pull on you. if something is fake, it will remain fake regardless of how many centuries people think it's true. For thousands of years people thought that the Earth is flat and rests on 3 whales floating somewhere. what is that "historical" theory worth now? same amount as any religious brain washing.
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      12-14-2007, 10:20 PM   #608
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Sometimes I wonder about that kid (hks786)....No amount of learning can cure _______ (insert whatever you feel like).
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      12-29-2007, 02:38 PM   #609
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      02-04-2008, 11:04 PM   #610
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In time all will know the truth, that I am certain of.

The word Christian is so diluted these days. Who among these people believe Christ is their Lord and Savior? What is it to be Christian? These are the questions I hear most.

Flame me if you wish, but I am a born again Christian - that means I have accepted Christ as my savior, that He died for my sins and that He was raised from the dead and will return again. I don't just believe, I know it to be true. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Am I perfect? no. Am I a sinner? definitly. Can I do good works to cover my sins? no. How then am I saved? By the blood of Christ who died for all of us that we should have ever lasting life. Why would He do such a thing? Because He first loved us.

I don't care what people say, the Bible is the living word of God. I would hope that more would come to Christ, but I can't make you or anyone else - All are saved by the grace of God and not by the works of man. There's nothing I could do to save myself from what I deserve, only Christ Jesus can - and He deserves all the glory. Do I struggle with sin everyday? You bet I do.

Do I take offense to your post and that you're an athiest, no. But I hope that one day you understand what I know to be true. It is up to you to accept Him or not.

I'm a regular guy, trying to make my way in the world...i'm no better than anyone else. If you ever hear a Christian judge you or show contempt for you...they are in the wrong. I am not judging you, you are free to believe what you will. It is your choice and I have nothing against you.

guess that was long, but its my 2 cents in this thread.
couldn't hv said it better....just because we're Christians it does not make us perfect...only one perfect man,,,,Jesus,,,
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      02-05-2008, 03:24 AM   #611
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couldn't hv said it better....just because we're Christians it does not make us perfect...only one perfect man,,,,Jesus,,,
I completely agree that Prophet Jesus (AS) is a MAN, he is also among the most righteous of prophets.
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      02-05-2008, 04:46 PM   #612
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Carolyn0944,

Do you believe that Muslim believers are going to hell?
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      02-05-2008, 08:53 PM   #613
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Carolyn0944,

Do you believe that Muslim believers are going to hell?
I am not the one to judge who goes to heaven and who does not; there is only one Judge; but as a Christian it is my belief if you do not acknowledge Christ as the Son of God who came to earth to "save" us from our sins by crucifixion and rising on the third day, you will not enter into heaven. You cannot straddle the fence; He says that not everyone who cries Lord, Lord will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven, only those who do His will. He also tells us if you are lukewarm, he will spew you out of His mouth.

Some say this is too scary and they do not want to hear these passages that do not preach happiness, content, and love, but the fact is, God wants all of these things for us; He wants us to live a fulfilled life with Him at the head of our homes. However, He did show us his wrath and how He can deal with those that disobey His laws. Everything in the Bible is not happy and what we want to hear but it is necessary. At present, I am studying the book of Revelations and it even frightens me, but it gets your attention. You don't want to be here during Tribulation times and if you do not make a commitment to belong to Him and serve Him before that time comes, it will be a terrible time, absolutely terrible; and all the signs are around us at this moment. He says He will come like a thief in the night; in an instant.
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      02-05-2008, 09:55 PM   #614
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I am not the one to judge who goes to heaven and who does not; there is only one Judge; but as a Christian it is my belief if you do not acknowledge Christ as the Son of God who came to earth to "save" us from our sins by crucifixion and rising on the third day, you will not enter into heaven. You cannot straddle the fence; He says that not everyone who cries Lord, Lord will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven, only those who do His will. He also tells us if you are lukewarm, he will spew you out of His mouth.

Some say this is too scary and they do not want to hear these passages that do not preach happiness, content, and love, but the fact is, God wants all of these things for us; He wants us to live a fulfilled life with Him at the head of our homes. However, He did show us his wrath and how He can deal with those that disobey His laws. Everything in the Bible is not happy and what we want to hear but it is necessary. At present, I am studying the book of Revelations and it even frightens me, but it gets your attention. You don't want to be here during Tribulation times and if you do not make a commitment to belong to Him and serve Him before that time comes, it will be a terrible time, absolutely terrible; and all the signs are around us at this moment. He says He will come like a thief in the night; in an instant.
So what you're saying is give God what he wants or he'll kill us? You ought to be ashamed of all your fear mongering. That's not religion, that's blackmail.

And by the way, what happens to all those innocent children and babies in Africa, Asia and the Middle East who will never have a chance to know God or Christianity. I guess God says tough shit, they die too? Sorry but I prefer my loving compassionate and forgiving God to your spiteful, vain and vengeful God. Your self - righteous - holier - than - thou meter is hitting way off the scale.
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      02-05-2008, 10:43 PM   #615
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So what you're saying is give God what he wants or he'll kill us? You ought to be ashamed of all your fear mongering. That's not religion, that's blackmail.

And by the way, what happens to all those innocent children and babies in Africa, Asia and the Middle East who will never have a chance to know God or Christianity. I guess God says tough shit, they die too? Sorry but I prefer my loving compassionate and forgiving God to your spiteful, vain and vengeful God. Your self - righteous - holier - than - thou meter is hitting way off the scale.
U take this out of context; my God is a loving, forgiving God as I have said above; He is Abba Father and desires nothing but the best for His children; as far as children are concerned, infants and children all go to heaven if they die before the age of accountability...I am not a theologian and I do not try to stir up fear, I've been answering questions brought up by someone who asked; if you are a Christian and read your Bible you know you have laws to live by; He is not vengeful, vain or spiteful; His heart breaks for what He sees happening in this world today.
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      02-05-2008, 11:46 PM   #616
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Yep, real nice guy.

Mathew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom (Jews) shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mathew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Mathew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
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