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      10-24-2011, 01:48 PM   #1
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cars as investments

I saw a recent article about todays cars that will be collectors in the future. I was curious how realistic it would actually be to try and make some money this way. I basically proposed it to my gf as a way for me to make money and have a stable of kick ass cars as well. I was thinking worst case I lose some money but have amazing cars for the next 20 yrs. The list included the current zr1, cayman spyder, current m3, boss laguna seca, gtr, gt3 rs 4.0, ford raptor, and a few others I can't remember.
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      10-24-2011, 01:54 PM   #2
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I'm certainly not a classic car expert. However, I think this sounds incredibly risky purely from an investment point of view. Unless car is produced in very small numbers and something clicks making it a classic it is unlikely you can actually make money. Furthermore you would need to consider storage. You probably would only want to use the car very infrequently as well to minimize mileage. For 99.5% of people and 99.5% of cars one would be way better off just buying some mutual funds...

Anecdotally I bought a E46 M3 at a seemingly killer price as an "investment". I planned to drive it for a couple months and sell it a bit later. As you might surmise I lost my ass on the car. Not 100% relevant to your question but still yet still quite relevant from a top level perspective.
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      10-24-2011, 01:55 PM   #3
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You are not the first dreamer to think of this as a way to have your cake and eat it too. IMO, none of those cars are very likely to hold their value, let alone appreciate at an investment-grade rate. You are better off with more traditional investment vehicles (businesses, real estate, financial instruments) that are based on things that actually generate cash. If you look back at the cars that have really made money for their owners, they were very rare and truly exotic cars - one off race cars, Ferrari 250 GTOs, Mercedes Gullwings, Jag E-Types, etc... Not typically special edition (but still mass produced) mid-ranged sports cars. The irony of it is that you're only really likely to stumble into an appreciating car if you're rich enough not to give a crap about the price of entry in the first place. The guys who will sell a car for $10 M in 20 years are the guys who buy a Veyron 16.4 SS stick it in a carpeted display garage and only drive it 100 miles per year. Joe Blow car enthusiast who stretches his budget on the hope that his prized $100K possession gains in value is likely to be disappointed.
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      10-24-2011, 02:39 PM   #4
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Well that sucks. I already basically knew the answer but used it as a ploy with my gf to buy a bunch of cars. Thought both the laguna seca and gt3 4.0 are pretty limited production. I would spend more in storage and upkeep than the investment would. I can dream. I will take a gtr, gt3, m3 and laguna seca mustang please. I do think the way the cafe regulations are going will give many cars a greater chance of appreciating in value given time. If we are all driving 50hp weiner-moblies the M3 will be king.
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      10-24-2011, 02:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
Well that sucks. I already basically knew the answer but used it as a ploy with my gf to buy a bunch of cars. Thought both the laguna seca and gt3 4.0 are pretty limited production. I would spend more in storage and upkeep than the investment would. I can dream. I will take a gtr, gt3, m3 and laguna seca mustang please. I do think the way the cafe regulations are going will give many cars a greater chance of appreciating in value given time. If we are all driving 50hp weiner-moblies the M3 will be king.
What's the point of owning nice cars that you can't drive? Seems like a lose/lose situation to me. I'd rather not have the car than it sit in my garage and not be able to drive it.
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      10-24-2011, 03:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
I saw a recent article about todays cars that will be collectors in the future. I was curious how realistic it would actually be to try and make some money this way. I basically proposed it to my gf as a way for me to make money and have a stable of kick ass cars as well. I was thinking worst case I lose some money but have amazing cars for the next 20 yrs. The list included the current zr1, cayman spyder, current m3, boss laguna seca, gtr, gt3 rs 4.0, ford raptor, and a few others I can't remember.
I somehow wish I kept some of my older cars like my 1953 Oldsmobile Super 88, my 1960 Firebird or my 1970 Pontiac Parisienne ... then on the other hand where do we keep them all all I still have from the 80s is my e28 and it will be 25 years old next June. I put so much money into this babe, still we love her and never let her go Who Knows what it will bring 25 years from now ... your guess is as good as mine. One other car I will add now to my stable and that be a good condition Z4 M 2006 to 2008 it might bring some good cash in 25 years from now
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      10-24-2011, 03:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
What's the point of owning nice cars that you can't drive? Seems like a lose/lose situation to me. I'd rather not have the car than it sit in my garage and not be able to drive it.
I hadn't worked that out a probably wouldn't try to resist. Just low miles not none. Probably track miles!
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      10-24-2011, 03:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I'm certainly not a classic car expert. However, I think this sounds incredibly risky purely from an investment point of view. Unless car is produced in very small numbers and something clicks making it a classic it is unlikely you can actually make money. Furthermore you would need to consider storage. You probably would only want to use the car very infrequently as well to minimize mileage. For 99.5% of people and 99.5% of cars one would be way better off just buying some mutual funds...

Anecdotally I bought a E46 M3 at a seemingly killer price as an "investment". I planned to drive it for a couple months and sell it a bit later. As you might surmise I lost my ass on the car. Not 100% relevant to your question but still yet still quite relevant from a top level perspective.
If you had found a nice BMW 507 or a Z8 then you would have made some money Z8 go now over $120K and the 507 well over $500K up to a mill and more on the BMW side ... there are others that are priceless like the most priceless collectable Ferraris --->Check it out here
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      10-24-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
Well that sucks. I already basically knew the answer but used it as a ploy with my gf to buy a bunch of cars. Thought both the laguna seca and gt3 4.0 are pretty limited production. I would spend more in storage and upkeep than the investment would. I can dream. I will take a gtr, gt3, m3 and laguna seca mustang please. I do think the way the cafe regulations are going will give many cars a greater chance of appreciating in value given time. If we are all driving 50hp weiner-moblies the M3 will be king.
Here is a nice find ... quite a story ... if this car was in North America I would get it to keep my e28 company

As for driving her ... well near by in the summer till early fall we have car shows driving her there and on weekends to the lake would be fun
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      10-24-2011, 10:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
If you had found a nice BMW 507 or a Z8 then you would have made some money
Exceptions to the rule
Very hard to predict with certainty

-> See my 1st reply!

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      10-24-2011, 10:26 PM   #11
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U want a car as an investment? Go buy some BMW AG stock. Leave it be for 20 years and a share in its profits.
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      10-24-2011, 11:00 PM   #12
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no i really want to sell my gf on the idea of a car as an investment so i can go buy a gtr and gt3 and laguna seca mustang.
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      10-25-2011, 12:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
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no i really want to sell my gf on the idea of a car as an investment so i can go buy a gtr and gt3 and laguna seca mustang.
So are you trying to tell us your gf tells you what car(s) you can or cannot buy?

What the hell is going to happen if you two ever get married?
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      10-25-2011, 01:55 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
no i really want to sell my gf on the idea of a car as an investment so i can go buy a gtr and gt3 and laguna seca mustang.
so she can leave you when you loose your ass on these cars?
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      10-25-2011, 06:02 AM   #15
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Stay away from the ZR-1.... I sold mine with 2,100 miles and it and took a 12k loss... They are literally sitting on dealership floors
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      10-25-2011, 08:00 AM   #16
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Stay away from the ZR-1.... I sold mine with 2,100 miles and it and took a 12k loss... They are literally sitting on dealership floors
Was this not an expected outcome? I don't see where the surprise is.
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      10-25-2011, 08:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
If you had found a nice BMW 507 or a Z8 then you would have made some money Z8 go now over $120K and the 507 well over $500K up to a mill and more on the BMW side ... there are others that are priceless like the most priceless collectable Ferraris --->Check it out here
The BMW 507 is one of the few post war BMWs that has a stronf presence in the collector car market. The Z8 has held its value but has not really appreciated. IMO the 2800CS and 3.0CS BMW coupes from the 70s are very undervalued and may be the best investment opportunity of modern BMWs. The chances of any of the current BMW models appreciating is very slim.

Most cars will depreciate for a while and then start to increase in value. Rarely do they appreciate past what they cost new, particularly when you take inflation into consideration.

There are some cars that have had a tremendous increase in value. A few months ago Rober Cumberford of Automobile Magazine wrote that in the late 60s a Belgian dealer offered him two Ferrari GTOs for $7,000. Cumberford passed on the deal. Today the combined value of those two Ferraris is probably $50,000,000.

It is impossible to predict which cars will become valuable collectables. In 1969 who would have predicted that in 40 years a Plymouth Hemi Cuda would be worth more than a Ferrari Daytona?

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      10-25-2011, 09:49 AM   #18
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So are you trying to tell us your gf tells you what car(s) you can or cannot buy?

What the hell is going to happen if you two ever get married?
No she doesn't tell me what I can or cannot do but as with any women having their approval goes a long way in keeping a happy relationship. This was more a goof or what if senario since I don't have space or money to get everything I want. Just a dreamer.
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      10-25-2011, 10:07 AM   #19
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I think this article means 25+ years from now. Very very few cars will appreciate in the first ten years of ownership. I'm sure a clean zr1 or e92 m3 thirty years from now will fetch some nice dough
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      10-25-2011, 01:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
No she doesn't tell me what I can or cannot do but as with any women having their approval goes a long way in keeping a happy relationship. This was more a goof or what if senario since I don't have space or money to get everything I want. Just a dreamer.
I was just teasing you


Iono I'm different, possible because I was raised in a Persian family where my father made all of the financial decisions and the wife isn't even informed of whats going on. I know more about whats going on than my mother lol...
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      10-25-2011, 02:25 PM   #21
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A Solid piece of advise for OP.

1. Stay AWAY FROM THAT GIRL BECAUSE YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR FREEDOM (YOU ALREADY HAVE LOST BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO ASK HER WHAT TO BUY OR NOT)
2. Stay away from investing in CARS.

3. Save Money.
4. And dont get married with the girl who you to ask permission to buy car.
5. SHE IS CONTROL FREAK. stay awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay from HER.
6. ENJOY your FREEDOM
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      10-25-2011, 02:40 PM   #22
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you have a long time waiting on modern cars. even the RS 4.0 won't appreciate. in fact it will drop once the 991 GT3 debuts. there is always something better. same goes for the Boss Mustang and the M3. the limited edition mass produced cars all have same problem. they get replaced by something better. for cars that actually appreciate now you need to look at 70's cars.

i say take your chances on the stock market instead. if you bought $50K of Ford stock at its low in 2009 for $2 a share and sold it now you would have over $300K which would have paid for RS 4.0, Boss, and M3.
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