BMW M Targets "Own" Car

[M3roar]

I think M should make a car. Cost no more than $130-160k and slap the crap out of Porsche 911, Audi R8 and even the GT-R herself. BMW would sell a grip load of those if the price was right and the performance would be there. Honestly. I'm not wealthy but I would certainly save and buy a BMW Mcar of they could do that.

[Boostin FD]

Originally Posted by Barny

Yes please.

Which car is this?

[M3roar]

Also. Audi's success is its daily driver ability. I'd vote using a twin turbo set up on the current m3 V8 and make it daily drivable. That's why people just don't buy certain higher end cars... Cause they break down all the time. That's why Audi wins in sales cause people have said many times they are good to live with daily.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by Barny

Yes please.

Oh yes *^^^* I like it

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic

Isn't the M3 an answer to Audi's R8 V8? Even the M6..

The M3 beats the R8 V8 spec in both the quarter mile and 0-60..

Edit - Just wondering..

That's the spirit of BMW drivers.... 0-60 and quarter mile times.

Originally Posted by M3roar

I think M should make a car. Cost no more than $130-160k and slap the crap out of Porsche 911, Audi R8 and even the GT-R herself. BMW would sell a grip load of those if the price was right and the performance would be there. Honestly. I'm not wealthy but I would certainly save and buy a BMW Mcar of they could do that.

M3 GTS already failed to do that. Apparently it is not all that easy to slap the crap out of a 911. Oh, BMW beating the GTR... yeah

Originally Posted by Mahzari

They should let the S65 V8 and S85 V10 live on in a lightweight, rear-wheel drive sport's car. They would be sold in such small volume that they wouldn't really hurt the brand MPG rating and would please enthusiasts.

According to Audi's website, the R8 V8 weighs 3,600lbs, add that to the four-wheel drive loss and it's clear to see why a manual M3 can keep up with it.

I wish they did. It is not only about mpg. BMW does not want to spend too much money on R&D. The # of M3's sold relative to all the other cars they're making is low enough to offset brand MPG rating anyways. They could just make the S65 more efficient with Direct Injection and such and called the day. But that is a greater R&D cost than tuning turbos.

[SCOTT26]

Of course they would love to do it.

They have an idea on paper on how it can work and what it should be , unfortunately what they want to do is not entirely feasible at this point.
Right now everything is on Project-i , once the CFRP becomes mass volume and very cost effective than it is just now. Then you will see the sharing of technology especially material technology . But BMWi is the highest priority just now if anything will happen it will be after 2015.

* Please do not show that M3 mixed with an R8 render again , I fail to understand why anyone reckons it looks good when it is disjointed and ugly...

[BMW Fanatic]

Originally Posted by termigni

if that's all it matters to you, go buy american my friend.

Where in my post did I say that is all that matters? Check the end of my post I even stated - just wondering - if that was all that DID matter then I wouldn't be going American, I'd be going Japanese. GT-R R35

Originally Posted by erhanh

That's the spirit of BMW drivers.... 0-60 and quarter mile times.

Why is it that every time I read a post by you it has to be something negative? Seriously, does your wife wear the boxers in your relationship so much so that you have to come online to make yourself feel good? Or do you have a boss that treats you like her bitch? Be happy and prosper in life my friend otherwise you will end up a lone wolf that has only one friend, an M3. Just like the 4th person that replied I stated - just wondering - at the end of my post. If 0-60 and QM times was all I cared about then believe me I would have gone and picked up a GT-R for $15/20,000 less than my M3 and AMS'd that bitch Alpha 12 style.

Have a good day.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic

Why is it that every time I read a post by you it has to be something negative? Seriously, does your wife wear the boxers in your relationship so much so that you have to come online to make yourself feel good? Or do you have a boss that treats you like her bitch? Be happy and prosper in life my friend otherwise you will end up a lone wolf that has only one friend, an M3. Just like the 4th person that replied I stated - just wondering - at the end of my post. If 0-60 and QM times was all I cared about then believe me I would have gone and picked up a GT-R for $15/20,000 less than my M3 and AMS'd that bitch Alpha 12 style.

Have a good day.

I don't even have an M3... I'm so alone

[formula M]

Developing only takes more computing power & time.

BMW M doesn't manufacture anything, just develop... so I fail to see what is news here and what Albert is talking about. BMW is still going to MANUFACTURE whatever BMW M developers, so who cares if they develop partial chassis & stuff, or a whole car? (<-- the only difference is focus)

In concept, M division has probably built several stand-alone cars over the years, just never produced them for the public consumption.


If BMW M now wants to be a sub-brand manufacturer and market & sell their own brand, then how is that not at odds with BMW's business model? Or why?

The new iCars are nice & all, but when BMW M cannot make (ie: market) proper M cars across the Continents, then why should Albert Biermann be worried about making them himself? Until BMW can understand that focus groups are for fleet sales & not M cars, then nothing going forward will be purposeful.


Note:
Please, try not to dazzle us with your techno-glow.. circuitry & gadgetry should remain hidden from the driver, only the gages and instruments should be on tap.

[esqu1re]

I don't think the M3 competes quite competes with the base R8. I can see your logic as both have about the same hp and similar performance limits, but the R8 is mildly exotic and mid engined, whereas the 3 series isn't. So, I guess performance wise, they're comparable, but desirability wise, the M3 fails to capture the same clientele, and I think that's where a M1, priced appropriately, comes in.

[T1T2GRE]

I like the racing heritage of BMW, but I just don't see how a supercar fits in to their overall image. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Hommage become a reality, etc. But when I think of the brand v. Porsche, Ferrari, and supercar territory, it doesn't jibe. The beauty of a BMW is that is can tear it up on a track, and yet be worthy of daily driver use/basic comforts. You can be pretty damned fast with an E30M3 on the track, but at the end of the day, there's a trunk for groceries. Just like my 1M. The other day my wife and I took the 1M out for a cruise and, not that I wanted to, but we wound up making a pitstop at CostCo and snagging some early Christmas gifts for cousins and family. Few others design cars like that.

Porsche/Lotus/Ferrari etc. make great cars. But these aren't designed with any pragmatic application in mind. They also cost significantly more.

As much as I would love to see a BMW supercar, I don't see how it really fits their niche. It would be quite a departure.

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by erhanh

That's the spirit of BMW drivers.... 0-60 and quarter mile times.

M3 GTS already failed to do that. Apparently it is not all that easy to slap the crap out of a 911. Oh, BMW beating the GTR... yeah

I wish they did. It is not only about mpg. BMW does not want to spend too much money on R&D. The # of M3's sold relative to all the other cars they're making is low enough to offset brand MPG rating anyways. They could just make the S65 more efficient with Direct Injection and such and called the day. But that is a greater R&D cost than tuning turbos.

The M3 GTS was merely a tuned M3 (which is still based on the 3-series platform) that tried to compete with the 911 GT3 RS. Look at the difference in height, width, weight, tire size, etc. The M3 GTS is like the C63 Black Series. Instead of tuning an existing model, BMW should let ///M develop a new chassis for a street car with 500+hp that could compete with the Porsche Turbo, SLS AMG, and Audi R8 V10.

Mercedes-Benz let AMG design the SLS from the ground up, which is what BMW should let ///M do.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Mahzari

The M3 GTS was merely a tuned M3 (which is still based on the 3-series platform) that tried to compete with the 911 GT3 RS. Look at the difference in height, width, weight, tire size, etc. The M3 GTS is like the C63 Black Series. Instead of tuning an existing model, BMW should let ///M develop a new chassis for a street car with 500+hp that could compete with the Porsche Turbo, SLS AMG, and Audi R8 V10.

Mercedes-Benz let AMG design the SLS from the ground up, which is what BMW should let ///M do.

I partly agree. If they build something from ground up, that may be competitive. But on the other hand, even the GTS cost so much while as you stated it was based on the 3 series. I can't imagine the price tag if it didn't.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Boostin FD

Which car is this?

It's not an actual car or concept, just an M3 photoshoped to look like an R8 competitor.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

This is all Insideline spinning quotes again. Same way they spun the AWD M5.

I was in the room- I asked the actual question.

Biermann said they have wanted to do it since the M1, and they haven't and can't. There is no business case, and hasnt been one. The board will never approve it. They can't build a case for the Z4 even with the GT3 being raced (M builds that motor BTW)

Sure they could do it but to homologate without a base BMW model would be too costly. Look at how much a GTS or CRT costs and they are based on production cars.

The CRT and GTS M3s were never board approved they were customer cars through individual. So could they do something similar and not need homologation- sure but that is not the same as building a M only car for real production.

The other thing is- BMWi is building the i8- which will be the BMW halo so why would M be working on a similar project, and why would the board ever approve a competing product?

Autoblog was in the same room and I'm pretty sure if Biermann said things how Insideline is spinning them, you would have also read it there.

Really nothing extraordinary came out if the meeting, except they found a loop hole to build the GTS and CRT models. We knew no M5 AWD and no wagons (skips a Gen). Have seen the manual spy shots etc. No Z4.

Biggest thing I learned is that the Brabham turbo was dual scroll and that the M engineer that designed that system has been and still is at M working on Turbos.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Of course they would love to do it.

They have an idea on paper on how it can work and what it should be , unfortunately what they want to do is not entirely feasible at this point.
Right now everything is on Project-i , once the CFRP becomes mass volume and very cost effective than it is just now. Then you will see the sharing of technology especially material technology . But BMWi is the highest priority just now if anything will happen it will be after 2015.

* Please do not show that M3 mixed with an R8 render again , I fail to understand why anyone reckons it looks good when it is disjointed and ugly...

Darn. I was getting my hopes up, too.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576733

I'm permabanned from that section LOL

Is it the "Franken M3" with the Dinan stroked S85?

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Originally Posted by TK-421

I'm permabanned from that section LOL

Is it the "Franken M3" with the Dinan stroked S85?

I've been there. It's an e36 M3 with S65...with a supercharger....

[Pentium]

a dream and I hope it will come true!

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by erhanh

I partly agree. If they build something from ground up, that may be competitive. But on the other hand, even the GTS cost so much while as you stated it was based on the 3 series. I can't imagine the price tag if it didn't.

A big factor in the price of the M3 GTS and M3 CRT were their limited production run. I'm glad BMW made the cars and they sold out immediately but they are intended to be for BMW enthusiasts who are looking for the best M3 possible, not the best car for the money.

Originally Posted by shift@red

The M3 GTS wasnt a merely tuned M3. It had over 200 lbs of weight cut from it, revised DCT, roll cage, wider wheels and tires, revised suspension, lots of aero work, etc. It was a substantive effort on behalf of M. They just failed to come to market with a car worthy of competition or the price they charged for it.
With regards to building a chasis from the ground up, its going to be a very expensive car that BMW will in all likelyhood not be able to sell and make money, and the obvious have a hard time competing with a bar that has been set very high. The SLS AMG and the R8 are both 200K+, both of which still dont perform better than the turbo which is in this case much less expensive...even the turbo S is less expensive and absolutely punishes them in every performance measure.

The problem is with M3 GTS is it looks like an M3 and is the size of an M3 with the price of Porsche's highest performance production car. To entice buyers, it can't have the interior of a $30,000 entry-level model. I mean no respect to the M3 or M3 GTS, hell, I drive an M3, but I would never pay $150,000 for an M3-based super car. I would buy the Porsche without a doubt.

To play with the big boys, BMW needs to make a car from the ground up that is meant to be a super car, it cannot be an adaptation of an existing model. It needs to be much lower, wider and lighter than anything a 3-series platform can provide.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

This is all Insideline spinning quotes again. Same way they spun the AWD M5.

I was in the room- I asked the actual question.

Biermann said they have wanted to do it since the M1, and they haven't and can't. There is no business case, and hasnt been one. The board will never approve it. They can't build a case for the Z4 even with the GT3 being raced (M builds that motor BTW)

Sure they could do it but to homologate without a base BMW model would be too costly. Look at how much a GTS or CRT costs and they are based on production cars.

The CRT and GTS M3s were never board approved they were customer cars through individual. So could they do something similar and not need homologation- sure but that is not the same as building a M only car for real production.

The other thing is- BMWi is building the i8- which will be the BMW halo so why would M be working on a similar project, and why would the board ever approve a competing product?

Autoblog was in the same room and I'm pretty sure if Biermann said things how Insideline is spinning them, you would have also read it there.

Really nothing extraordinary came out if the meeting, except they found a loop hole to build the GTS and CRT models. We knew no M5 AWD and no wagons (skips a Gen). Have seen the manual spy shots etc. No Z4.

Biggest thing I learned is that the Brabham turbo was dual scroll and that the M engineer that designed that system has been and still is at M working on Turbos.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/259703/

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/259703/

Written by the same person, it is the same exact story. He is a great guy, is a freelancer so can sell to whomever he wants.

Like I said and Scott said- It is not happening.

I have ambitions of winning the 24 hours of the 'Ring in an E30 M3; that isn't happening EVER.

They have had a car drawn up since the early 1980's in one form or another. It is not happening.

[IS3andME]

Anybody remember when this ran? A supposed SL killer was "being developed...and I was hoping thet they put to two S54B32s together to make a M V12