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      10-23-2011, 01:25 AM   #1
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Post BMW M Targets "Own" Car

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Originally Posted by InsideLine
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Albert Biermann of BMW says the high-performance M division would like to develop its own car.
Biermann says the job of the division is to "sell emotion and fun," whatever the engine.

MUNICH, Germany Albert Biermann, head of product development told Inside Line that BMW's M performance division would like to develop its own car. "From an engineering perspective we have the skills and we'd love to do it," he said. "We've discussed it several times but we've never been able to make the business case. Everything we do has to make money."

The engineer claimed that M was also ready to adapt to the development of alternative powertrains. "Our job is to sell emotion and fun, using the technology that's socially acceptable at the time. Whether that's a combustion engine or an electric motor, we don't care."

The new M5 swaps a V10 for a twin-turbo V8 and Biermann expects this trend to continue. "It's about employing the right technology at the right time and we're on a steep learning curve with turbos. We're getting damn close to matching the response of a naturally aspirated engine but with much lower fuel consumption."

While engine efficiency will improve, Biermann signaled the end of the horsepower race. "We cannot just keep adding power," he said. "M is not selling horsepower; that's not what we're about."

He also refused to rule out developing a diesel M car. "We'd never say never if the technology becomes available, but right now we don't have the diesel technology to match the responsiveness of the new M5."

Inside Line says: Let's hope they make the business case a latter-day M1 to take on the Audi R8 could be just what BMW needs.
http://www.insideline.com/bmw/bmw-m-...s-own-car.html
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      10-23-2011, 08:39 AM   #2
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Interesting. I think BMW is still one of the leaders when it comes to increasing performance and fuel economy. I also believe that expanding the M division to become a test bed for new technologies is good for the company and would be excellent for consumers.

The time is now for a BMW supercar!
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      10-23-2011, 11:37 AM   #3
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BMW made a strategical error in not taking on Audi's R8 - has been a great halo product for the 4 Rings' brand.

The i8 is a differentiated product but also makes sense to take the next gen drivetrain of the M3/M4 and produce an M8. http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/
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      10-23-2011, 11:55 AM   #4
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It would be nice to see something take on the R8 and destroy it straight off the line from the M division. Whether it be a M1 re incarnate or a 8 series, two cars that IMO are both timeless designs that I never get tired of seeing (mostly in pictures of course) The problem is what was stated in practically the first line, it needs to make $money$ and there is a limited crowd for them. This is where they just need to bite the bullet and take a lesson from Porsche on the GT3/2 and RS versions.

The R8 no doubt is a great car it has the looks and performance, especially with the V10 I do get tired of it being Audis answer to everything though. I mean you can't see any of their commercials without it making an appearance. Hell I just saw a A4 commercial and it had the R8 at the end sitting next to it.
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      10-23-2011, 01:59 PM   #5
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Isn't the M3 an answer to Audi's R8 V8? Even the M6..

The M3 beats the R8 V8 spec in both the quarter mile and 0-60..

Edit - Just wondering..
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      10-23-2011, 02:29 PM   #6
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I just don't see how they'd develop it without adding more overhead. So that new, M only car would have to cover that additional overhead and make profit for BMW. That's tough, even if they do have much of the equipment.

I'd be afraid that they would either delegate more of the development of the standard M models to the regular BMW engineering team, to allow the M core engineers to focus on this M only model. I'd much rather they utilize all of the M engineers and resources to make the next set of M models that much better.

BMW M does not need a halo model. Audi did, as despite its RS4 (B5 version), it was still lacking in being associated with performance. Not since the original Ur Quattro did it have something so special. BMW on the other hand, has consistently had the M cars, and they have consistently been highly regarded by the motoring press and public alike.

About the only rationale that I can see for a BMW halo car is to demonstrate a new powertrain concept (e.g. what the "i" vehicles are now doing).
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      10-23-2011, 04:18 PM   #7
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A halo car gives people something to dream about. It gives them a reason to go to the dealer to check it out. But hey, while they're there a salesman might come over and say something along the lines of "ya the tech that was developed for this halo car has been adapted to go in here (insert car here)." They would then probably make that sale based on the halo car's presence.

Where I'm from the fanciest dealers are BMW, Audi, Merc, Lexus, and Porsche. Audi always has an R8 sitting in their showroom, Merc has an SLR Mclaren sitting in theirs, and Porsche, is well Porsche. All of those might be losing money on their showroom floors but boost customer traffic and thus increases sales.
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      10-23-2011, 07:19 PM   #8
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We'll see...
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      10-23-2011, 07:28 PM   #9
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I'll die if they make their own car. How about the M1? That was an "M" exclusive and it answers the supercar question.
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      10-23-2011, 07:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
BMW M does not need a halo model. Audi did, as despite its RS4 (B5 version), it was still lacking in being associated with performance. Not since the original Ur Quattro did it have something so special. BMW on the other hand, has consistently had the M cars, and they have consistently been highly regarded by the motoring press and public alike.

About the only rationale that I can see for a BMW halo car is to demonstrate a new powertrain concept (e.g. what the "i" vehicles are now doing).
Agreed. I know it would be cool to have that ONE performance model and I know how awesome the R8 is but I don't know about the rest of you but I get tired of hearing R8 this and R8 that. When you look at each model individually, that's all Audi can brag about which some people may think is cool but while everyone is touting the R8, Mercedes and BMW, while they may not have a R8 of their own (ok maybe Mercedes does), they're busy creating a whole line of cars that are arguably better than their Audi counterparts. It may not have the performance specs of a R8, but if BMW can breakthrough with the "i" cars, I believe it will become BMW's R8 and introduce a new market like they did with the 3-Series.

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Originally Posted by DDS2015 View Post
Where I'm from the fanciest dealers are BMW, Audi, Merc, Lexus, and Porsche. Audi always has an R8 sitting in their showroom, Merc has an SLR Mclaren sitting in theirs, and Porsche, is well Porsche. All of those might be losing money on their showroom floors but boost customer traffic and thus increases sales.
All the while, BMW doesn't have a halo car to lose money on but still increase their sales QTR after QTR and year over year. Now I'm not saying that just because BMW is on top they should stop innovating, instead I'd rather they reinvest into their current line-up making them better than making a R8 that would likely lose money and only sell to a handful of people and just to say it's better than a R8 for argument purposes. (Though it would be nice stick it to all those Audi fanatics who think the R8 is the be all end all when it comes to BMW vs. Mercedes vs. Audi debates...)
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      10-23-2011, 07:43 PM   #11
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I think it is wise for the M-Division to have more autonomy in leading development of new vehicles as opposed to just following "souped up" versions of regular market releases.

It is time the leaders of JOY actually lead us into brave new worlds.
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      10-23-2011, 07:54 PM   #12
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Yes please.
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      10-23-2011, 07:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic View Post
Isn't the M3 an answer to Audi's R8 V8? Even the M6..

The M3 beats the R8 V8 spec in both the quarter mile and 0-60..

Edit - Just wondering..
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      10-23-2011, 08:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltigeur View Post
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BMW made a strategical error in not taking on Audi's R8 - has been a great halo product for the 4 Rings' brand.

The i8 is a differentiated product but also makes sense to take the next gen drivetrain of the M3/M4 and produce an M8. http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/
Alpina B7?
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      10-23-2011, 08:23 PM   #15
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      10-23-2011, 08:40 PM   #16
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I agree with the i division being the future response to the R8, BMW is cutting edge and i think in some way it would be a step back for them to built a car like the R8, the R8 doesn't represent the future super car, i does. However if M decides to then hell have at it and I'm sure it will kill everything even the likes of ferrari. Either way: yes please!!
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      10-23-2011, 08:46 PM   #17
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good idea folks at ///M
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      10-23-2011, 08:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic View Post
Isn't the M3 an answer to Audi's R8 V8? Even the M6..

The M3 beats the R8 V8 spec in both the quarter mile and 0-60..

Edit - Just wondering..


That's a stick. The DCT would help it keep up. Watch how the M3 hauls back ground.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      10-23-2011, 09:04 PM   #19
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^ Nice!
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      10-23-2011, 09:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchnellM3 View Post
The R8 no doubt is a great car it has the looks and performance, especially with the V10 I do get tired of it being Audis answer to everything though. I mean you can't see any of their commercials without it making an appearance. Hell I just saw a A4 commercial and it had the R8 at the end sitting next to it.

The whole point of having a halo car is to use it to promote sales of lesser models.

The biggest example of this would be with Dodge and the use of the VIPER. They used the same concept to increase and push sales of the Neon, so I cannot see why it is such a bad thing for Audi to try to make the most of its time with the R8.

Soon, there will be a replacement for the R8, even with Mercedes...there was the SLR, now we have the SLS...what will come next? It is just marketing at work and you can't fault their marketing divisions for using this approach.
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      10-23-2011, 09:50 PM   #21
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^ But that's really only the case IF you're struggling for sales, or you need a halo car to demonstrate your company's technological know-how (e.g. Honda releasing the NSX in 1990).

In the case of BMW, they're doing well with sales, and they are introducing the entire "i" line of cars to showcase their new alternative powertrains. As for M, we all know what they can do, as they've been showcasing it for years now.

I'd much rather the next M3 is superior to all of its competitors, and even can give cars like the 911 a run for their money. If it was up to me, that's what BMW and M would be investing their money in (the next gen M3, 1M, M5, M6, etc.).
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      10-23-2011, 09:50 PM   #22
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bout damn time! this should've been in the works already...
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