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      05-09-2007, 10:56 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
I know, everything that does not agree with your views is "nutty"...98% of the World's population is NUTTY!
If 98% of the world's population makes statements for which there is absolutely no substantiating evidence, such as; Katherine Harris rigged the vote in Florida, then they are nutty.
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      05-09-2007, 11:02 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What the analogy shows is it is not possible to judge the effects, good or ill, of an ongoing conflict. Germany and Japan were destroyed in a manner unimaginable in Iraq today but recovered to develop liberal, democratic governments despite no history of having such.

You're right, communism is just as capable of providing for people as capitalism. Just look at the per capita GDP for the Republic of China ($30,084) compared to the People's Republic of China ($7,598). The Republic of Korea ($23,926) to the People's Republic of Korea ($1,800). I think we should all adopt it.
WOW, again -- youread crap, I see stuff...
Now, go back to your little link and find out the price of gallon of gas in PRC and in Taiwan, do the same for the price of apartment, car, taxi, bread, milk...
PRC GDP increase has never been seen in history. Taipei looks like it did 10 years ago, Beijing looks like NYC will look in 200 years...and so on...

You're looking stupid with those comments, you know?
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      05-09-2007, 11:09 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
WOW, again -- youread crap, I see stuff...
Now, go back to your little link and find out the price of gallon of gas in PRC and in Taiwan, do the same for the price of apartment, car, taxi, bread, milk...
PRC GDP increase has never been seen in history. Taipei looks like it did 10 years ago, Beijing looks like NYC will look in 200 years...and so on...

You're looking stupid with those comments, you know?
Those are purchasing power per capita GDP figures.

Are you claiming that the average Chinese citizen has a better standard of living than the average Taiwanese citizen? Please tell me you are so everyone can see the fool you are.
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      05-10-2007, 06:42 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Those are purchasing power per capita GDP figures.

Are you claiming that the average Chinese citizen has a better standard of living than the average Taiwanese citizen? Please tell me you are so everyone can see the fool you are.
I am not sure what is the average citizen -- who is the average in the USA? Am I the average, or someone working at the cashier in the grocery store?

Again, most likely no, the average citizen of 1.7 billion Chinese does not have better standard of living than the average citizen of 25M Taiwanese...and no one would expect that to be -- China did it all on their own, Taiwan was spoon fed by the West...
However, again, look and compare (apples and oranges) those two 20 years ago and today...who advanced more -- the avg citizen in China or Taiwan?

Do you really think that the average citizen in the USA would live better than the one in China if we had ~6x population of today?
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      05-10-2007, 07:25 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
I am not sure what is the average citizen -- who is the average in the USA? Am I the average, or someone working at the cashier in the grocery store?

Again, most likely no, the average citizen of 1.7 billion Chinese does not have better standard of living than the average citizen of 25M Taiwanese...and no one would expect that to be -- China did it all on their own, Taiwan was spoon fed by the West...
However, again, look and compare (apples and oranges) those two 20 years ago and today...who advanced more -- the avg citizen in China or Taiwan?

Do you really think that the average citizen in the USA would live better than the one in China if we had ~6x population of today?
I really hope you do not actually need me to explain to you how to determine an average.

Wherever in the world two nations with similar people in culture, education, etc... in which one had a free market economy and the other a command economy (East/West Germany, North/South Korea, ROC/PRC) the free market was better able to provide for its citizens.
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      05-10-2007, 11:37 AM   #160
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ANother question

OK, on another note...

I am having trouble understanding this:
You (Neil) said that all that Bush does is justified because democratically elected by the people of the USA, therefore, all he does is a representation of the majority. This actually may not be the Bush case, but I will use him as an example because of the most recent events...

So, Bush won by about 51/49 vote and rightfully was elected as the President. In a mean time, his popularity sunk to DEFINITELY less than 51%.
Also, most recently, voters have shown that they wanted changes by electing a new senate by a smallest margin (51/49).

So, I am not sure I understand how democratic it is that the Senate -- most recent majority elected body proposes something that obviously majority of US population agrees with, and the President (in this case Bush) simply vetos that although it is obvious that it is not the will of the majority of people.

Does that sound democratic to you?
Or just because the Constitution says so, we should blindly follow it, same as we blindly followed some things lately?
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      05-10-2007, 03:38 PM   #161
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The United States is not a true democracy, we are a democratic republic. Real democracy is untenable. Imagine everyone is the US voting on every one of the bills Congress votes on

The president does what he thinks is right and the people elect who they believe to be the best president. This is a good thing because on the whole, people are stupid.
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      05-10-2007, 04:36 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
The United States is not a true democracy, we are a democratic republic. Real democracy is untenable. Imagine everyone is the US voting on every one of the bills Congress votes on

The president does what he thinks is right and the people elect who they believe to be the best president. This is a good thing because on the whole, people are stupid.
Makes sense, however, if the (dis)approval rating for the president is as it is, shouldn't it be different?
Or are you saying that we're predominantely stupid nation?
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      05-10-2007, 04:37 PM   #163
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No. I've neither seen nor heard of any better system.
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      05-10-2007, 05:29 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
.... This is a good thing because on the whole, people are stupid.
I'd say only around 30% are stupid. That is where you have alien abductions, the various Oliver Stone conspiracies and Bush’s approval rating.


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      05-10-2007, 06:16 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
OK, on another note...

I am having trouble understanding this:
You (Neil) said that all that Bush does is justified because democratically elected by the people of the USA, therefore, all he does is a representation of the majority. This actually may not be the Bush case, but I will use him as an example because of the most recent events...

So, Bush won by about 51/49 vote and rightfully was elected as the President. In a mean time, his popularity sunk to DEFINITELY less than 51%.
Also, most recently, voters have shown that they wanted changes by electing a new senate by a smallest margin (51/49).

So, I am not sure I understand how democratic it is that the Senate -- most recent majority elected body proposes something that obviously majority of US population agrees with, and the President (in this case Bush) simply vetos that although it is obvious that it is not the will of the majority of people.

Does that sound democratic to you?
Or just because the Constitution says so, we should blindly follow it, same as we blindly followed some things lately?
I do not believe I ever said that what Bush does is justified because he was democratically elected. I may have said he was legitimately elected in a manner consistent with the Constitution and the rule of law, but truth be known I, like the men who wrote the Constitution, am not a big fan of democracy.
They designed a system of representation that consisted both of democratic principles and checks on the excesses that tended to come from the implementation of those principles.
Presidents are elected to serve 4 year terms and they are not subject to votes of no confidence by legislature as a prime minister would be. The Congress has the power to check the powers of the Presidency but it requires more than a simple majority.
So when you ask, is it democratic, I say I do not wish it to be. Our constitutional republic has proven itself to be superior to pure democracy.
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      05-10-2007, 06:24 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Presidents are elected to serve 4 year terms and they are not subject to votes of no confidence by legislature as a prime minister would be. The Congress has the power to check the powers of the Presidency but it requires more than a simple majority.
So when you ask, is it democratic, I say I do not wish it to be. Our constitutional republic has proven itself to be superior to pure democracy.
Unless they have moral and decency to his/her nation and do what Blair just did...
Why aren't we so lucky...
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      05-10-2007, 07:40 PM   #167
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>"Why aren't we so lucky...< I mean no sarcasm here but, why don't you just move?
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      05-10-2007, 07:43 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire-n-ice View Post
>"Why aren't we so lucky...< I mean no sarcasm here but, why don't you just move?
I've asked him in another thread, he hasn't given a clear answer. Actually I think I even offered to pay for his plane ticket.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh valley View Post
shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      05-10-2007, 08:05 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire-n-ice View Post
>"Why aren't we so lucky...< I mean no sarcasm here but, why don't you just move?
so when people complain about our leaders, we're just supposed to move away rather than try and fix the situation? He's making a point that some world leaders have integrity and actually try to do what's best for their country, rather than doing what Bush is doing to ours. Without dissenting voices this country would be a very uninteresting place-
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      05-10-2007, 08:31 PM   #170
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He's making a point that some world leaders have integrity and actually try to do what's best for their country, rather than doing what Bush is doing to ours.
What makes you think Bush is not doing what he feels is best for his country? The President has been the most consistent national politician on this issue with the possible exception of Senator McCain. He has not followed the fickle polls but done what he believes is right. That is called leadership and it is what we have Presidents for.
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      05-10-2007, 08:55 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What makes you think Bush is not doing what he feels is best for his country? The President has been the most consistent national politician on this issue with the possible exception of Senator McCain. He has not followed the fickle polls but done what he believes is right. That is called leadership and it is what we have Presidents for.
I must agree with you on this one -- he was and is consistant...
Going down steadily -- in ratings, polls, successes, country's standard of living...

The only opposite is the prices (OF EVERYTHING) -- steadily going up, but hey, where would a trillion wqasted for the war come from???

BTW, ganeil -- what happened to the Bush's biggest supporter -- Blair?
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      05-10-2007, 08:58 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
I've asked him in another thread, he hasn't given a clear answer. Actually I think I even offered to pay for his plane ticket.
You know, just when I think you're very mature for your teen age, the reality comes out and you come up with a stupid comment like this.

If you think that the solution to our problems would be to shrink the population to the size smaller than Canada's, then I really think I wasted all this time enjoying my chats with you...
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      05-10-2007, 09:13 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
I must agree with you on this one -- he was and is consistant...
Going down steadily -- in ratings, polls, successes, country's standard of living...

The only opposite is the prices (OF EVERYTHING) -- steadily going up, but hey, where would a trillion wqasted for the war come from???

BTW, ganeil -- what happened to the Bush's biggest supporter -- Blair?
Of course the country's standard of living has NOT been declining by any possible measure.

Inflation is virtually non-existent.

Tony Blair retired.
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      05-10-2007, 10:04 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Of course the country's standard of living has NOT been declining by any possible measure.

Inflation is virtually non-existent.

Tony Blair retired.
No, blair QUIT -- his mandate was NOT over!
We all know why he quit.

You are wrong about inflation -- you're looking at the wrong indicators -- the ones that DO NOT apply to an average person. All I care about is the prices of every day's goods vs. my salary.
In last 10 years, most of the goods (minus gas) went up 100%. Salaries definitely did not go up even close to that. That is the inflation for me. And that is what the middle class cares for, not your robotic calculations that mean nothing...

The standard of living in the USA is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy down from lets say mid to late 90's. Way, way down.

You use the similar analogy as you use calculating the unemployment figures. Sure, people find jobs, the counted rate is very low -- great. But how many people that lost their great jobs from the late 90's have founf equal or better ones???
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      05-10-2007, 11:33 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
You know, just when I think you're very mature for your teen age, the reality comes out and you come up with a stupid comment like this.

If you think that the solution to our problems would be to shrink the population to the size smaller than Canada's, then I really think I wasted all this time enjoying my chats with you...
OK, I suppose I was too obscure with that one. Remember during the 2004 elections when all these radical left-wingers threatened to leave the country if Bush got re-elected but they're all still here? Either O'Reilly or Hanity offered to pay for their plane tickets. It was a jab at that.
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      05-11-2007, 08:20 AM   #176
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No, blair QUIT -- his mandate was NOT over!
We all know why he quit.

You are wrong about inflation -- you're looking at the wrong indicators -- the ones that DO NOT apply to an average person. All I care about is the prices of every day's goods vs. my salary.
In last 10 years, most of the goods (minus gas) went up 100%. Salaries definitely did not go up even close to that. That is the inflation for me. And that is what the middle class cares for, not your robotic calculations that mean nothing...

The standard of living in the USA is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy down from lets say mid to late 90's. Way, way down.

You use the similar analogy as you use calculating the unemployment figures. Sure, people find jobs, the counted rate is very low -- great. But how many people that lost their great jobs from the late 90's have founf equal or better ones???
Tony Blair resigned. Read what you want into it. He was not in danger from anyone in his own party and he made it clear during the last election that he did not intend to serve his full term. His successor has been hand picked by him. He served for 10 years and figured that was enough.

Maybe YOUR standard of living has gone down, if so I am sorry. As for the country as a whole you could not be more wrong. Inflation is low, interest rates are low (you do understand that the two tend to go hand in hand?), growth is good, unemployment is very low, stocks are up. There are are a few areas of concern like real estate and energy prices but overall this economy is amazing.

You simply do not understand that you cannot use your personal situation or the situation of the small group of people you are familiar with to judge this nation's economy.

Arguing this nation's economy is weak simply makes you look foolish.
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