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      10-14-2011, 10:29 PM   #133
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1. Driver's Education
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The above for my 4 Teens before they ever get/got a car.
One Teen down, three still to go.

And no, I would never give them an M3 as a first car.
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      10-14-2011, 10:50 PM   #134
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My judgement tells me not to participate in this thread... but here I go again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic View Post
Why is this irrelevant? Regardless of age, every ones human. There is no saying a kid will automatically be less safe than an adult just because of age and life experience, or rather, lack of.
Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think its worth mentioning again:

"Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for U.S. teens, accounting for more than one in three deaths in this age group. In 2009, eight teens ages 16 to 19 died every day from motor vehicle injuries. Per mile driven, teen drivers ages 16 to 19 are four times more likely than older drivers to crash." - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

I rotated through the Shock Trauma Center in Baltimore during my training. Predominately its associated with shootings/stabbings, your general inner city violence. But what often gets overlooked are the large number of young people that end up there in the summertime because of MVAs. In fact, I got to do my first chest tube on a teenager that got flung out of a car driven by his best friend.

That's not the worst story though - the worst was standing outside of a patient's room listening to this teen bawling to her parents apologizing for an accident she caused... and she was now paralyzed from the waist down.

Sorry BMW Fanatic, yes older people get into accidents too, but these numbers don't lie. Younger people are at higher risk.

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Originally Posted by jqsmooth View Post
I wish I could go back in time and talk to the 18 year old me and knock some sense into him. Not just about cars and driving, but everything about life. That's all I have to say.
Amen to that jgsmooth, I turned out just fine (I hope), but there were many things I didn't have to learn the hard way. And btw - I also own a 2002 Pathfinder that's still going strong.

So as to not totally thread jack, the best piece of advice is know your kid. You know what kind of kid she is, can she handle the responsibility of this, or any car? That's what it really comes down to.

The other stuff? Doesn't really matter what people think. I may agree that getting an m3 as your first car may be a bit much, but hell, if I was offered it I would take it when I was 16. And giving an m3 to an otherwise good kid isn't going to turn them into a snobbish jaggoff that expects the world handed to them on a platter.

Let me just say that the biggest confidence booster in my life was being able to score dates while driving a twelve year old 1984 Subaru Wagon that you could hear from a mile away. Never had a problem with women since...

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      10-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #135
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ABSOLUTELY NOT if you love your child. Just watched a report this morning showing teens and their distracted driving habits (they have a lot more distractions between Tweets, IM, FB updates, etc. all behind the wheel.) We may think our kids are responsible when we're with them but the report I saw this morning shows how even the best kids behavior changes for the worst when a parent isn't in the car and degrades much further if you add another teen in the car.

A M3 is a recipe for disaster - primarily to the health of the child and those around him/her and secondarily to your financial health (you'd be shocked at the size of the lawsuit you're going to face when your teen plows into someone in a BMW and a M3 no less!)

My son is 15 now and we'll be looking for a safe reliable barely-fast-enough-to-get-out-of-its-own-way Volvo. He wants an older S40 and I'm thinking much older brick - 240!
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      10-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #136
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honestly not a big deal..
every child's different

my first car was w204 mb c350..
2nd was e92 dinan m3


i'm turning 20 in november
although i agree with everything you guys have to say and the difference is that i actually know how to drive
my fathers been teaching me to drive for as long as i can remember

and a lot of teenagers i admit are incredibly stupid and immature
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      10-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #137
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I would agree it may not be the best idea, but not to the point where I completely hate it. Nowadays, ANY car is capable of going 80mph+, enough to seriously injure or (God forbid) kill anyone in the car and in front of it. Yes, an M3 is very fast but wouldn't you guys feel good knowing that your child is driving in a car that will never flip over like an SUV or spin out like some tail-happy honda? A car that has superior technology to assure great safety? Of course, all this only applies when your child has learned to RESPECT the power of the car, not abuse it. The car is a privilege, not a right. After teaching your child this, he or she will be just as much as a cautious driver as any other given person on the road. It's O.K. to have fun and still be safe. And, as you probably already taught your daughter, never to flaunt the car, because in reality being humble will make her stay out of trouble (I have a whole different story on this if it's needed)
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      10-15-2011, 03:35 PM   #138
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probably not
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      10-15-2011, 03:43 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericjay56 View Post
I would agree it may not be the best idea, but not to the point where I completely hate it. Nowadays, ANY car is capable of going 80mph+, enough to seriously injure or (God forbid) kill anyone in the car and in front of it. Yes, an M3 is very fast but wouldn't you guys feel good knowing that your child is driving in a car that will never flip over like an SUV or spin out like some tail-happy honda? A car that has superior technology to assure great safety? Of course, all this only applies when your child has learned to RESPECT the power of the car, not abuse it. The car is a privilege, not a right. After teaching your child this, he or she will be just as much as a cautious driver as any other given person on the road. It's O.K. to have fun and still be safe. And, as you probably already taught your daughter, never to flaunt the car, because in reality being humble will make her stay out of trouble (I have a whole different story on this if it's needed)


couldn't have said it bettter
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      10-15-2011, 04:37 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
You old people are funny 100K in the bank after buying it? What does that prove? That you just spent 41% of your prior bank balance on a rapidly depreciating liability?

Kids these days can make 100K/yr their first year out of college, and that's not out of a good b-school. Plus all the drop outs and hippies are currently running around the country "protesting" instead of trying to get jobs or work, so now it's even easier to excel.

Your kids are supposed to do better than you. Just because you had to drive around in a beater dosen't mean you have to inflict the same fate on them. Maybe when they are older they'll be writing happy anecdotes on the internet about their first (nice) car rather than spreading the hate.
Firstly, I think the poster is referring to a certain amount of completely disposable income..... after living expenses, retirement savings, annual voluntary investments, kids expenses, college savings, etc. If after that, you want to go ahead and plunk down $70k of your $170k, then go for it. Presumably, you will be able to build back that disposable balance in another year or two. By your argument, why would anyone ever buy a nice car, since they are rapidly depreciating assets. Not everything in life is done just to make more money. At some point, you actually may want to spend the money to buy something that you enjoy.

To walk into a six-figure job right out of college is not commomplace unless you happen to be an entrepreneur or in an existing family business. Law and medicine both require doctoral degrees. Business requires an MBA at the least. Very few PhD jobs will start you at these salaries even after grad school. So while they are there, I would love to know where they are so commonplace. In fact, I think a basic 4-year college degree gets you less than it used to.

Your kids having it better than you materially is okay to a point. After that point, having more material goods can actually be detrimental to the development of their character, expectations from life, etc. So yes, if you work in a hard labor job, and you aspire for your child to become a professional, that is fine, but at some point, having it "better" is not better.

There is also a HUGE span between a "beater" and an M3 which is one of the premium performance cars on the market today. Even you are affluent and want to give your kid something nice, how about a Civic, Jetta, Golf, or even like a used 128i. These are certainly not beaters but they are reasonable cars for the kids of an affluent person.
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      10-15-2011, 05:17 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benn. View Post
i'm turning 20 in november
although i agree with everything you guys have to say and the difference is that i actually know how to drive
my fathers been teaching me to drive for as long as i can remember

and a lot of teenagers i admit are incredibly stupid and immature
This may be completely true in your case but the issue is that EVERY 17 to 25 year old believes the exact same thing whether it true or not. They then drive like they actually have a level of skill that they do not have. IMO, without formal training (not driver's ed) and/or many years of experience, the skill is not there. There are many young people who are great drivers and have the skill and maturity to have a car like an M3 but they are in the VAST minority and, as I said, the issue is that the rest of those in that age group actually believe they are better drivers and more mature than they are. If I owned an M3 at 18, there is a reasonable chance I would not have seen 30 and I really did consider myself to be more mature than most others my age.
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      10-15-2011, 05:31 PM   #142
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Ummmm in my case, I drove my mom's 325i when I was 18. had X5 35I as my first car at 19 in college.(my parents think SUV should keep me safe). and now I am 20, getting a 2012 E92 M3(at VPC). I never had any accident, and will not drive crazy on the street, so they think it is ok to let me have my dream car.
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      10-15-2011, 05:37 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi112 View Post
most of these posts are crap....my first car was a brand new M3 coupe that i paid for 80% of it on my own and took a loan out for the rest...insured in my name and worked plus went to school to pay for it because my father hated german cars and since an M3 was what i wanted i was on my own...knowing what kind of car i was buying my father also sent me to two high performance driving schools right after i got my license just so he knew i would be able to handle myself....3 M3's, 5 corvettes, and a few other sports cars and countless sport bikes sprinkled in there i have never had one accident or point on my license...so it drives me a little crazy when people are like kids cant be trusted with sports cars...to be honest most adults shouldnt be trusted either...i know way to many 30 year old guys that all of a sudden want to ride a bike and go out and buy a GSX-R 1000 and are on the ground two lights out of the dealership....rant over
Sorry this is a load of b.s that you payed 80 percent and got a loan for the rest AND payed insurance! Unless your first car was when you were 25. At 16 in HS there is no job you can make to almost completely pay cash for a 60k car and then get aloan and pay your insurance/gas etc. Clearly your parents bought it for you or you are full of it.
Unless you were dealing dope than maybe its feasible
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      10-15-2011, 05:39 PM   #144
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On another note, I think the perfect car if you have the money for a 16 year old is a 328/128i. It is very snazzy and nice, safe and new and has a perfect amount of power IMO. Fast enough to be very fun for a first car but not so much power that you can get into trouble very easily. Of course any car can get you killed but I like this as a compromise if I had kids and had the money I would go this route. Also a nice audi a4 would be reasonable. Even a 335 is way too much for a kid and probably almost worse than an m3 given the ability to reach its full power much easier than an m3.
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      10-15-2011, 05:52 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
This may be completely true in your case but the issue is that EVERY 17 to 25 year old believes the exact same thing whether it true or not. They then drive like they actually have a level of skill that they do not have. IMO, without formal training (not driver's ed) and/or many years of experience, the skill is not there. There are many young people who are great drivers and have the skill and maturity to have a car like an M3 but they are in the VAST minority and, as I said, the issue is that the rest of those in that age group actually believe they are better drivers and more mature than they are. If I owned an M3 at 18, there is a reasonable chance I would not have seen 30 and I really did consider myself to be more mature than most others my age.


agree with you completely. i never open up my car outside of the proper track/roads

the majority of kids these days think they're speed racer lol
people try and provoke me all the time but i just have to be the bigger person
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      10-15-2011, 07:23 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
On another note, I think the perfect car if you have the money for a 16 year old is a 328/128i. It is very snazzy and nice, safe and new and has a perfect amount of power IMO. Fast enough to be very fun for a first car but not so much power that you can get into trouble very easily. Of course any car can get you killed but I like this as a compromise if I had kids and had the money I would go this route. Also a nice audi a4 would be reasonable. Even a 335 is way too much for a kid and probably almost worse than an m3 given the ability to reach its full power much easier than an m3.
Agree completely. Used 128i, used A4, etc. are the perfect kind of car for a kid who comes from affluence, for all the reasons you mentioned. Moderation is the key here. Extravagance is harmful, deprivation is unnecessary.
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      10-15-2011, 09:07 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
Sorry this is a load of b.s that you payed 80 percent and got a loan for the rest AND payed insurance! Unless your first car was when you were 25. At 16 in HS there is no job you can make to almost completely pay cash for a 60k car and then get aloan and pay your insurance/gas etc. Clearly your parents bought it for you or you are full of it.
Unless you were dealing dope than maybe its feasible
Man, this thread is hot! Exactly my point with the cash in the bank point I made many pages ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
This may be completely true in your case but the issue is that EVERY 17 to 25 year old believes the exact same thing whether it true or not. They then drive like they actually have a level of skill that they do not have. IMO, without formal training (not driver's ed) and/or many years of experience, the skill is not there. There are many young people who are great drivers and have the skill and maturity to have a car like an M3 but they are in the VAST minority and, as I said, the issue is that the rest of those in that age group actually believe they are better drivers and more mature than they are. If I owned an M3 at 18, there is a reasonable chance I would not have seen 30 and I really did consider myself to be more mature than most others my age.
Me either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Firstly, I think the poster is referring to a certain amount of completely disposable income..... after living expenses, retirement savings, annual voluntary investments, kids expenses, college savings, etc. If after that, you want to go ahead and plunk down $70k of your $170k, then go for it. Presumably, you will be able to build back that disposable balance in another year or two. By your argument, why would anyone ever buy a nice car, since they are rapidly depreciating assets. Not everything in life is done just to make more money. At some point, you actually may want to spend the money to buy something that you enjoy.

To walk into a six-figure job right out of college is not commomplace unless you happen to be an entrepreneur or in an existing family business. Law and medicine both require doctoral degrees. Business requires an MBA at the least. Very few PhD jobs will start you at these salaries even after grad school. So while they are there, I would love to know where they are so commonplace. In fact, I think a basic 4-year college degree gets you less than it used to.

Your kids having it better than you materially is okay to a point. After that point, having more material goods can actually be detrimental to the development of their character, expectations from life, etc. So yes, if you work in a hard labor job, and you aspire for your child to become a professional, that is fine, but at some point, having it "better" is not better.

There is also a HUGE span between a "beater" and an M3 which is one of the premium performance cars on the market today. Even you are affluent and want to give your kid something nice, how about a Civic, Jetta, Golf, or even like a used 128i. These are certainly not beaters but they are reasonable cars for the kids of an affluent person.
That was exactly my point. Dreams are a lot sweeter if they are actually earned. The 20 year olds here will not be independent by the time they are 30, they will be back sucking on the parental teet.
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      10-15-2011, 09:17 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benn. View Post
honestly not a big deal..
every child's different

my first car was w204 mb c350..
2nd was e92 dinan m3


i'm turning 20 in november
although i agree with everything you guys have to say and the difference is that i actually know how to drive
my fathers been teaching me to drive for as long as i can remember

and a lot of teenagers i admit are incredibly stupid and immature
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhouzitao View Post
Ummmm in my case, I drove my mom's 325i when I was 18. had X5 35I as my first car at 19 in college.(my parents think SUV should keep me safe). and now I am 20, getting a 2012 E92 M3(at VPC). I never had any accident, and will not drive crazy on the street, so they think it is ok to let me have my dream car.
Uh, tell me that neither of you guys go over 100 mph at least once a week. True, every car can go over 85 mph. Question is, how quickly it gets to 85 mph.
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      10-15-2011, 09:21 PM   #149
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I never buy my kid (specially my son) an expensive car. He better works hard for his car. I think one of the reasons that I love my car is that I worked so hard for it.
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      10-15-2011, 10:29 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericjay56 View Post
I would agree it may not be the best idea, but not to the point where I completely hate it. Nowadays, ANY car is capable of going 80mph+, enough to seriously injure or (God forbid) kill anyone in the car and in front of it. Yes, an M3 is very fast but wouldn't you guys feel good knowing that your child is driving in a car that will never flip over like an SUV or spin out like some tail-happy honda? A car that has superior technology to assure great safety? Of course, all this only applies when your child has learned to RESPECT the power of the car, not abuse it. The car is a privilege, not a right. After teaching your child this, he or she will be just as much as a cautious driver as any other given person on the road. It's O.K. to have fun and still be safe. And, as you probably already taught your daughter, never to flaunt the car, because in reality being humble will make her stay out of trouble (I have a whole different story on this if it's needed)
I'm pretty sure a 328 is as safe as an M3. In fact, you can't make a 328 reach to 60 in 4secs, so I'd say a 328 is safer.
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      10-15-2011, 11:13 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqsmooth View Post
That's some funny stuff. I wish I could have seen the expression on her face when you told her that. I was very lucky to have a car my senior year in high school. I think any kid who has a car in high school is lucky!
It wasn't the expression on her face that was funny, it was the words that came out of her mouth... Something like I dont want that piece of $hit.
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      10-15-2011, 11:30 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
I'm pretty sure a 328 is as safe as an M3. In fact, you can't make a 328 reach to 60 in 4secs, so I'd say a 328 is safer.
I understand this, but you clearly don't understand the circumstances OP is under...He already has the M3, maybe he doesn't feel like spending 40+k on a first car for his child...
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      10-16-2011, 09:14 AM   #153
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i don't think you guys understand how much smarter younger people are nowadays..
who says you can't make money when you're young?
there's plenty of ways to make money through finance and real estate
we're already millionaires through stocks and whatnot
in fact my buddy just bought his mom a SL63 AMG for her birthday with the money he made off of stocks

my other friends got $500,000 in microsoft stocks

not to mention we all have our real estate licences
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      10-16-2011, 09:15 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye m3 View Post
Uh, tell me that neither of you guys go over 100 mph at least once a week. True, every car can go over 85 mph. Question is, how quickly it gets to 85 mph.


like i said earlier i only open it up on the right track/road
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