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      10-14-2011, 11:40 PM   #45
Rshane
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The only thing I learned from this thread is some folks get annoyed by little things way to easily.
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      10-15-2011, 01:51 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post

By contrast, boosting to that power level via forced induction would involve new pistons and rods, revised valve materials, obviously new intake and exhaust, plus cams for reduced overlap. Not to mention intercooler plumbing.
Huh? There are many kits out there that already boost to that power level...and way beyond without all the mods you list.
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      10-15-2011, 02:02 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by SchnellM3 View Post
A turbo, exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, with a supercharger, air goes in,witchcraft happens and you go faster.
But turbo's are more efficient. Hence, Efficient Dynamics. :P
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      10-15-2011, 07:23 AM   #48
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      10-15-2011, 10:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshane View Post
Huh? There are many kits out there that already boost to that power level...and way beyond without all the mods you list.
Yes, of course. But there is no way a factory is going to turbo the current M3 (or any engine) without making those modifications - and more.
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      10-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Yes, of course. But there is no way a factory is going to turbo the current M3 (or any engine) without making those modifications - and more.
Thats true.
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      10-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #51
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I love turbo. But I just bought my M3. But in the future, if someone did come out with a turbo kit for the S65, I'd definitely buy it. Yes, maybe it'll take lower compression pistons and stronger rods or what not, but turbo is great. The fastest cars in the world are turbo. Take the Ford GT for example. That car comes with a supercharger but to get real power out of it, what do people do? They take out the supercharger and put in twin turbos. In my opinion, turbo is the way to go. You make the analogy of putting a turbo on a car is like a ball player taking steroids. Maybe you're right. Some of the best ball players were all on steroids when they broke records. Only difference is, steroids are illegal. I can legally turbo my car and f**k up a lot of cars out there!!!
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      10-15-2011, 07:02 PM   #52
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I apologize if I hurt your feelings - but you invited discussion on what you stated. That means you invited both positive and negative discussion. What I said is you should keep your thoughts to yourself because your analogy is very flawed and what you wrote sounds ignorant.

I understand what you were trying to say ie N/A > FI and I like NA too. But slapping a turbo on a motor 1) is not cheating and 2) requires considerable effort from an engineering standpoint to get it right in a venerable brand like the BMW M3

Steroids is "cheating" in athletics because it allows greater strength, faster recovery and hence a performance advantage compared to non users in sports. They are controlled substances that can cause great harm to the body if they are abused - but they can also be used safely like in cases if testosterone replacement therapy in male andropause.

An untrained athlete taking anabolic steroids is not ever going to beat a elite athlete. That's not how they work at all.

I apologize if I offended you but what you said in your post was pretty much crap and I called you on it. Cheers.
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      10-16-2011, 01:23 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
With the next gen M3 going turbo, it got me thinking about this subject.

A highly tuned and meticulously engineered normally aspirated V8 is like an athlete who has trained diligently, watched his or her nutrition, and basically done everything "right" to achieve a high level of performance.

Now along comes the steroid user, who doesn't require anywhere close to the same amount of training discipline or dedication. Just inject a little juice and "bam", you can kick the ass of the "natural" athlete.

And yet, there is just something more pure and artful in the way the natural athlete achieves what he or she does.

It is really the same with car engines. There is just something more artful, purposeful and meaningful, in my mind, about a highly engineered naturally aspirated motor. I am not disputing the ease by which FI can give you big power, but there is something eerily unnatural about how the power delivery feels. I don't know how else to describe it. There is a disconnect between the throttle-engine response that isn't there with the NA motor.

There are a few holdouts in the Automotive world, but they are tending to be more the exotics. Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston, are all still NA and have no intention of going FI.

Discuss.......
u said it perfect man i totally agree with that!!!! i notice u from springfield cool man I'm from braintree ...lol. idk anyone and none my friends have bmw or m3's... I'm new to this forum nice meeting u! post some pics of ur m3 any mods?! name is elias but call me louie the greek lolhttp://www.m3post.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
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      10-16-2011, 02:58 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
I apologize if I hurt your feelings - but you invited discussion on what you stated. That means you invited both positive and negative discussion. What I said is you should keep your thoughts to yourself because your analogy is very flawed and what you wrote sounds ignorant.
Well here comes the big bad know it all doctor. Too bad your understanding of FI is pretty poor as well.

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Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
Forced induction is more like enlarging your digestive system so you can eat 60 hotdogs, taking extra digestive enzymes to help convert the hotdogs to ATP (energy) and having an extra large poop chute to crap out all the waste
As was already pointed out a simple O2 bottle is a much better medical analogy than yours (not perfect but much better). In fact in the case of supercharging your analogy is also completely crap. Supercharging has nothing to with the waste (i.e. exhaust) side of the motor. Furthermore for both super and turbo charging your analogy sucks because there is no "enlargement" of anything going on. Pressures are being increased not sizes being changed.

Open mouth insert foot Mr. Know-it-all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
I apologize if I offended you but what you said in your post was pretty much crap and I called you on it. Cheers.
I won't apologize. Check your arrogance at the M3post.com homepage.

The OPs analogy was certainly not perfect but it has some elements of applicability that work along with the supplied explanation.
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      10-16-2011, 05:03 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Well here comes the big bad know it all doctor. Too bad your understanding of FI is pretty poor as well.



As was already pointed out a simple O2 bottle is a much better medical analogy than yours (not perfect but much better). In fact in the case of supercharging your analogy is also completely crap. Supercharging has nothing to with the waste (i.e. exhaust) side of the motor. Furthermore for both super and turbo charging your analogy sucks because there is no "enlargement" of anything going on. Pressures are being increased not sizes being changed.

Open mouth insert foot Mr. Know-it-all.



I won't apologize. Check your arrogance at the M3post.com homepage.

The OPs analogy was certainly not perfect but it has some elements of applicability that work along with the supplied explanation.
Swamp, I like your style
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      10-16-2011, 06:47 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
You're of course free to admire/dislike whatever you like, but in the case you've stated, you are incorrect. At a guess, the current M3 engine could easily be modified to 480 HP via exhaust with shorter runners that favor high rpm power, larger exhaust plumbing from headers back, plus cam changes.

Would it be a better engine? Hell no. It would demonstrably be pretty poor for the street. But still, 480 HP.

By contrast, boosting to that power level via forced induction would involve new pistons and rods, revised valve materials, obviously new intake and exhaust, plus cams for reduced overlap. Not to mention intercooler plumbing.

Of course, it would make torque everywhere, and be a joyful drive compared to the nervous 480 HP NA version.
By this argument, you could also say the the current M3 should have been a boosted V6, no?
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