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      02-17-2012, 01:49 PM   #67
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I've just thought of something. I will sell Velcro shirts and pants...and sell the patches for the seats. There, problem solved.
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      02-17-2012, 03:27 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've just thought of something. I will sell Velcro shirts and pants...and sell the patches for the seats. There, problem solved.
Seat patches not needed for Speed Cloth guys...
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      02-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've just thought of something. I will sell Velcro shirts and pants...and sell the patches for the seats. There, problem solved.
That just might work. I finally took the plunge on seats/harnesses last weekend for the R32 (sorry LiM3y, I did buy Schroths), and will go the half-cage route for connecting my harnesses. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, depending on your POV for those waiting), I've never had a quick-fit option due to the fixed headrest, so it was either seats/harness/cage or nothing. Fortunately I still have my M3 for DD. Maybe by time I put my M on the track on a few years, Schroth will be done with the quick-fits by then
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      02-17-2012, 03:53 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
That just might work. I finally took the plunge on seats/harnesses last weekend for the R32 (sorry LiM3y, I did buy Schroths), and will go the half-cage route for connecting my harnesses. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, depending on your POV for those waiting), I've never had a quick-fit option due to the fixed headrest, so it was either seats/harness/cage or nothing. Fortunately I still have my M3 for DD. Maybe by time I put my M on the track on a few years, Schroth will be done with the quick-fits by then
Clearly the patience of a Trappist monk...!

Oh, I just paid Schroth $400 to put me on their no sell list after my recent posts.

I thought it would be the gentlemanly thing to do...
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      02-17-2012, 04:35 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've just thought of something. I will sell Velcro shirts and pants...and sell the patches for the seats. There, problem solved.
Reminds me of wacky Dave Letterman and the Velcro suit...can't believe this was 28 years ago!

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      02-17-2012, 05:02 PM   #72
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Quote:
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I have also paid another $400 to close paradocs out of buying any Schroth equipment!

You get two of these:

Here's a thought, the reason you want a harness is in the main part to hold you tight in the seat. If it was safety, you would be getting a full roll cage, otherwise, you are not changing all that much in terms of crash protection. If the OEM belt is intact, surely you can hold yourself down with the harness with the OEM belt buckled to use that restraint (you will need to clip in anyway to get rid of the chime - otherwise the YouTube videos will be really annoying!)
The Quick fit plugs into the OEM seatbelt receptacle. You will not need to use the OEM belt as well as the harness.
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      02-17-2012, 06:55 PM   #73
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Quote:
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The Quick fit plugs into the OEM seatbelt receptacle. You will not need to use the OEM belt as well as the harness.
I have been distracted by a clip-in harness recently. I lost focus on the goal here of obtaining a quick-fit pro purely on principle!
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      02-17-2012, 08:38 PM   #74
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This thread has gone from aweosme to hilarious to outright ludicrous. Vote to lock it!

Seriously, I still have a glimmer of hope these will come out soon.
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      02-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #75
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Real News(?)

Just talked with Schroth. It didn't sound very positive with regards to release dates with a QuickFit for the M3. I asked what the alternatives were, thinking the Profi ASM 4 might be an option, but he pointed me in the direction of the Rallye 3, saying that this harness would not put on any extra load on the seat back in a crash as it bolts into the rear passenger seat belt hardpoint on the C-pillar. Does this mean there is an issue with the testing?

http://www.schrothracing.com/store/T...allye/rallye-3

I think I am going in this direction, if nothing else, it will hold you down and you can use the stock belt as a restraint. It kind of doesn't look as sturdy as the other belts, but then again - take a look at the belt you have been using so far!
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      02-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #76
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Why would that be? Up earlier in this post someone reported that the belts were in production. If that's true (maybe they were not completely honest) then why can't they give a release date?
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      02-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #77
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Quote:
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Why would that be? Up earlier in this post someone reported that the belts were in production. If that's true (maybe they were not completely honest) then why can't they give a release date?
Well. I ~was~ being honest, I only wrote what I heard ~on the phone~. Yea, we're getting strung along, and the season is approaching. I was going to follow up in first week of March, but now I don't know if it's worth regurgitating any BS from that call. So it goes with vaporware.

As for Rallye-3s or 4s, I know 4s work. IMO 3s would be safer, however, I don't know if you can keep the rear OEM seat belts operational at the same
time when you connect the Rallye-3 to the C pillar, because of the roller assembly. I don't mind having a 3" belt and buckle/attachment sticking out here and there, but I don't want to have to install and uninstall a Rallye for every event so I can have operational rear seat belts.

My stinky opinion is that these belts ARE safer, because my focus on driving won't be as easily disrupted by a lack of being securely fastened to the seat. This is why I am livid with NASA racing because it's (to them) a liability issue, and not a safety issue, even though I think they disguise it as a safety issue. I have a lot of respect for Schroth getting these Rallyes DOT approved and I have a ton of respect for the DOT itself.
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      02-21-2012, 10:59 PM   #78
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You can use the back seats with the Ralleye's...the tail strap and shoulder straps can be disconnected. You can stow the shoulder straps by shoving them under the front seat, you'll understand if you get them.

But if you have kids back there...they will inevtibly play with the tail straps. Probably not a huge issue. Until someone with muddy shoes gets into you back seat and gets mud all over your shoulder straps.
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      02-22-2012, 08:37 AM   #79
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So here's a question ... and not to hijack this thread (to nowhere it seems ), or throw water on this 'holy grail' of harnesses, but do we really want this harness anyway?

The more I read, the more I read that you really need a 6-point harness with a cage. Period! Anything else is doing it halfway and *may* cause more harm in an accident than just using the 3-point OEM belt and airbags.

I read about 4-point harnesses putting pressure on your internal organs (never good), etc. And the classic one about if the roof caves in your head gets to try to stop it. (not something I want to try).

This is very frustrating because I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want to be very fast, BUT safe, in a car I can still drive to the grocery store. I am beginning to think that isn't plausible.

Maybe a hybrid head/neck restraint that works with OEM belts is the best before gutting the car and installing seats/cage/6-point harnesses.



This weekend at VIR I am going to try the trick to lock the seat belt and see how that works out while using my Hybrid Pro Rage.
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      02-22-2012, 08:56 AM   #80
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[quote=bigjae1976;11394931]You can use the back seats with the Ralleye's...the tail strap and shoulder straps can be disconnected. You can stow the shoulder straps by shoving them under the front seat, you'll understand if you get them. QUOTE]

One of my big interests in getting the Quickfits is that they are HANS compatible. I don't belive the Ralleyes are. Sure, we could use the Safety Solutions restraint but I'd rather use the HANS.

If only Schroth would issue a definitive yes or no.
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      02-22-2012, 09:22 AM   #81
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[quote=TXmtrhed;11396760]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
You can use the back seats with the Ralleye's...the tail strap and shoulder straps can be disconnected. You can stow the shoulder straps by shoving them under the front seat, you'll understand if you get them. QUOTE]

One of my big interests in getting the Quickfits is that they are HANS compatible. I don't belive the Ralleyes are. Sure, we could use the Safety Solutions restraint but I'd rather use the HANS.

If only Schroth would issue a definitive yes or no.
There is something going on with the testing of these harnesses, since that is what we have been told is where the manufacturers are for quite some time.

When I rang up, I asked about installing the Profi ASM, which is similar to the proposed QuikFit. In working through my best choice, they asked me if I had a roll cage or harness bar, and then they asked me if I have a fixed back seat. I said the car was completely stock, so the Schroth (MA) guy recommended that I go with the Rallye 3 and specifically referred to the potential issue with the seat back and the strap angles. This is a concern particularly as I am a long bodied 6'3", so my shoulders sit above the seat back any way.

Asking about installation, you can use stock bolts rather than needing extended ones. I wanted the Hans option too, but the Safety Solutions option might be the only choice.
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      02-22-2012, 11:21 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
The more I read, the more I read that you really need a 6-point harness with a cage. Period! Anything else is doing it halfway and *may* cause more harm in an accident than just using the 3-point OEM belt and airbags.

I read about 4-point harnesses putting pressure on your internal organs (never good), etc. And the classic one about if the roof caves in your head gets to try to stop it. (not something I want to try).
The maddening thing is that most evidence one way or another seems to be anecdotal. With my mostly stock M3 and based on my previous experience, I think my risk of rolling the car at speed is very small. The tracks I run at seem to have engineered their run-off areas for sliding, not rolling (but what do I know, really).

I realize I am definitely taking a risk by running a street car on track, harness or no harness. I would definitely be interested in buying a harness and trying it out at least once.

A rollcage is very dangerous in a street car, if you have an accident on the street (without a helmet) your head has a very good chance of hitting it and that can be deadly.

Quote:
This weekend at VIR I am going to try the trick to lock the seat belt and see how that works out while using my Hybrid Pro Rage.
It works, but you will need to slide the seat very very much backwards initially, to the point you can no longer touch the pedals. Then after you slide it forward, you can get an extra increment of locking by adjusting the seat back to be more vertical. Only this way will you remove all the slack from the seatbelt, to a sufficient degree that it won't unlock itself during some intense moments on track.

Do you have a CG-Lock device? It helps even more, since it locks the lower portion of the seatbelt in place, so that only the upper portion has slack.
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      02-22-2012, 01:04 PM   #83
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Running the cg lock does help. I've been using it since my 330 zhp days. I just crank it down as tight as I can make it. I wish schroth would get this done already. Like others I planned to have my quikfit pro in place by now for early season test and tune.
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      02-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMPowerJ View Post
So here's a question ... and not to hijack this thread (to nowhere it seems ), or throw water on this 'holy grail' of harnesses, but do we really want this harness anyway?

The more I read, the more I read that you really need a 6-point harness with a cage. Period! Anything else is doing it halfway and *may* cause more harm in an accident than just using the 3-point OEM belt and airbags.

I read about 4-point harnesses putting pressure on your internal organs (never good), etc. And the classic one about if the roof caves in your head gets to try to stop it. (not something I want to try).

This is very frustrating because I want to have my cake and eat it too. I want to be very fast, BUT safe, in a car I can still drive to the grocery store. I am beginning to think that isn't plausible.

Maybe a hybrid head/neck restraint that works with OEM belts is the best before gutting the car and installing seats/cage/6-point harnesses.



This weekend at VIR I am going to try the trick to lock the seat belt and see how that works out while using my Hybrid Pro Rage.
It is all about the risk you want to take, and your preparations to mitigate them.

Modern cars are much more structurally sturdy than older cars (that might be the source of the urban wisdom - the pillar/roof weakness of old designs) and more sophisticated in design in terms of roll-over. In older cars, you could, in principle bend to the side in a roll over, but in ours, the pyrotechnic pretensioners hold you bolt upright if your car starts to pucker up on your behalf if it gets worried. Another design feature is the increased strength of the A-pillar, where most rollovers impact first unless you do a full pancake flip. To be honest, to have the physical strength and presence of mind while experiencing the G's felt during a flip is a feat in itself! Our cars are heavier for a reason, mostly crash survivability.

Outside of the car, most flips you see on TV are caused by car-to-car contact in races punting one car off at an unusual angle - which you don't see at HPDEs unless there are corvettes in the mix ()
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      02-22-2012, 09:36 PM   #85
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^ +1 LiM3y, I concur completly, especially your first sentence. This really is about risk management. IMO I am trading off a increase in consequential risks (stopping a rollover with my head and neck) for more favorable risk probability (better driving by being more secure). That is what I choose. The stock roll cage, aka A & C pillars and roof, are good enough for me.
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      02-22-2012, 10:04 PM   #86
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IMO, you're a much safer and better driver when you aren't using your legs, knees, elbows, and abs trying to keep yourself in the seat. So these harnesses can prevent you from even getting into a rollover situation because you have much better control of the car. Let's not even mention you don't get worn out trying to brace yourself for 20 minutes straight...which makes you a more aware and even safer driver.

I've come up with a lot of excuses why I have not brought my E90 M3 to the track yet...the paint, brakes, etc. It really comes down to one reason...these harnesses. I have the quick fits in my E46 so I KNOW I'm planted in the seat. I can feel what's going on (I can feel something with my backside...not sure what it is [insert gay jokes]). I can drive 2 20 minute sessions back to back and get out of the car feeling physically fine. Versus someone else who is struggling to stay in their seat for one session.

So whatever argument as whether these harnesses will keep your head from getting crushed in a rollover is 90% pointless. Its like wondering if your car is going to spontaneously combust...it could happen but you have plenty of other things to worry about before you get to that point. So I will gladly take the risk of having my head support the car in a rollover for the many other benefits of these quick fits.

And there's no crotch strap. If you really tighten the shoulder straps, it will push you down in the seat even if the lap belt is tight. So I'm not sure why people think you won't slide down the seat at all.
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      02-24-2012, 11:21 AM   #87
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Just ordered Rallye-3

I'll let you guys know how it goes!

I also ordered a DIY brake duct kit...2 OEM backing plates to cut holes in, 3" flanges, 8' x 3" aircraft hi-temp hose, Pegaus Racing Air Inlets (I am not sure if these fit, but for $24 each, I though I'd give them a shot, and I can return them)

Getting cabin fever, expecially with 2" snow in CT today
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      02-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #88
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I'll let you guys know how it goes!

I also ordered a DIY brake duct kit...2 OEM backing plates to cut holes in, 3" flanges, 8' x 3" aircraft hi-temp hose, Pegaus Racing Air Inlets (I am not sure if these fit, but for $24 each, I though I'd give them a shot, and I can return them)

Getting cabin fever, expecially with 2" snow in CT today
Not sure how you survive. I'm itching to get back on the track and its only been 3 weeks!

But do provide an update!
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