Update on new Schroth Harnesses

[Shosholoza]

Originally Posted by leo95se

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...k-fit-pro-mini

R55 chassis.

Ordered! Thank you. Now we need the installation pics...
Its amazing that its taken so long to find this fix!

[thorny]

Ok, I am confused now. If I dont anticipate running Hans, should I get regular quick fit or PRO center buckle version is still better? I like how center buckle PRO version looks, is there any pros/cons with running Pro without hans. Thanks

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by thorny

Ok, I am confused now. If I dont anticipate running Hans, should I get regular quick fit or PRO center buckle version is still better? I like how center buckle PRO version looks, is there any pros/cons with running Pro without hans. Thanks

IMO, no. Only get the pro if you plan on getting the HANS. The pro is harder to get on because of the center lock. I could keep my non-pro tight. I have to loosen the pro to get the belts to lock in. Not a big deal unless you wait until the last minute to grid up.

If you think you will ever get a HANS, I would recommend going with the pro so you don't have to rebuy a harness. Which is what I just did.

[Omerta]

not to be negative, just questioning. I am waiting on this myself. Is a Harness designed seat and car specific for safety reasons? I mean this in the sense of that they have specific pressure points that would keep you positioned correctly in different crash situations. Or is it just a device that needs to keep you pinned to the seat(a bunch of bungee cords could possibly work) or do scientist have to figure it out . I would like to be in the correct spot if an airbag comes shooting at me. I am just wondering, just because you can get it to bolt up, will it do its intended purpose.

[leo95se]

It just provides more support so you don't slide around as much. It's far from a cage/racing harness combo. Hopefully my bruised knees will thanks me..

[thorny]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

IMO, no. Only get the pro if you plan on getting the HANS. The pro is harder to get on because of the center lock. I could keep my non-pro tight. I have to loosen the pro to get the belts to lock in. Not a big deal unless you wait until the last minute to grid up.

If you think you will ever get a HANS, I would recommend going with the pro so you don't have to rebuy a harness. Which is what I just did.

Thanks! I'll go with non-pro. Hans would be an overkill for my purposes, i just want to be more secured in the seat on track days since I sold my Recaro PP and and back to a stock seat.

[KM3]

Installed the QF Pro tonight in my E92. Very easy install - took about 15 minutes tops. Straps have plenty of adjustment. Really looking forward to trying them out on track next week.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by thorny

Thanks! I'll go with non-pro. Hans would be an overkill for my purposes, i just want to be more secured in the seat on track days since I sold my Recaro PP and and back to a stock seat.

I said that but now that I am getting faster and moving up to more advanced run groups, I'm more inclined to get a HANS. The speeds are higher, the cars get a little closer and stakes are getting higher.

I think James Clay from Bimmerworld made an interesting sell. His perspective was that a HANS is likely the difference from feeling like crap for awhile or feeling like crap for a day or two. If you think about the potential costs associated with being all messed up, the HANS might be a worthy investment.

[AMPowerJ]

Just ordered the harnesses. Can't wait to put them to use.

[adc]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I said that but now that I am getting faster and moving up to more advanced run groups, I'm more inclined to get a HANS. The speeds are higher, the cars get a little closer and stakes are getting higher.

I think James Clay from Bimmerworld made an interesting sell. His perspective was that a HANS is likely the difference from feeling like crap for awhile or feeling like crap for a day or two. If you think about the potential costs associated with being all messed up, the HANS might be a worthy investment.

Don't want to start an endless debate, but it is my understanding that a Hans device without a rollcage can spell trouble if you flip the car.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by adc

Don't want to start an endless debate, but it is my understanding that a Hans device without a rollcage can spell trouble if you flip the car.

Not sure. I still have some more research to do myself. I'll call HMS Motorsport sometime soon and post their response. I got the pro belt at a great deal so I pulled the trigger.

But the quick fit pros are marketed to be HANS compatible. I would guess that most who use the quick fits do so because they don't have a cage or roll bar.

I've been told that what makes the Pro HANS compatible vrs the regular belt buckle style is the should straps come closer to the center at the bottom so the belt stays on the shoulder yokes. Apparently, the belt will slip off of the shoulder yokes with the regular belt because shoulder straps come straight down.

[leo95se]

Accidents aren't predictable; regardless of the safety options used, there's risk. What about the stories of people falling out of cars and theirs lives being saved due to no belts?
I say do what makes you feel safe and helps your driving. A Hans seems like a good idea, assuming most accidents are head on with a lot of forward force, so controlling your head could be a good thing.

[iDontAlwaysDrink]

Can't wait for all the hard parkers to start buying these now, in order to win show points for "race car". Seriously, people have been calling a friend's shop, asking him "for help doing the race car stance".

[thorny]

Ordered quick fit regular in red.

[VictorH]

Just a few items of note as I'm one of the early adopters.

I just installed my Quick-fit Pro set (driver and passenger) this afternoon. I ordered the Pro because I have a head and neck restraint (Simpson rage). Installation is fine but a couple of notes.
1) It's possible to bend the outside front seat brackets so that it conforms to the stock seat bracket and comes out in the same location as the stock belt. It's a bit of a twisted Z bend but it's doable (mild bends, not extreme) and fits nice, with no interference with the seat bolster.

2) The stock outside seat bracket mount uses a hook (hooks onto a bar) and rear tab (you have to look at the mount to see what I'm talking about) which makes the seat belt mount bolt a minimal to low stress item in the event of an accident, as it's really just a fulcrum or pivot point if anything happens (though there would not be any appreciable movement of the bracket). The mount is also a beefy steel unit. The hook at the front will take most of the force. The Schroth bracket doesn't have this provision and consequently, for any impact the force through the Schroth belt will be completely taken by the stock bolt. I assume this is probably okay since the Mini mounts the same way.

3) The way the outside rear seat belt bracket mounts with the Schroth unit is such that in the event of an accident the forces are directed such that the only thing the bracket can do is bend back on itself. This is not ideal as you would like to have the forces directed in the longitudinal axis. The stock BMW bracket doesn't address this either, so maybe it's not a big deal, however, the BMW bracket is "beefy," i.e. it's not going to bend anyway. The Schroth bracket you can bend by hand when it's held in a vice. Since it's only one of the 4 mounting points maybe it's not that big a deal.

4) The last item is the most troubling for me as I can deal with the things noted above. Just as a prelude this this issue, since it's relevant, I'm 6'2" and 178 lbs. Now, the problem, with the seat properly adjusted for me, or if you follow the Schroth instructions and move the seat back a bit more than you would use, adjust the belts and then move the seat forward to tighten them up, I have a problem with the lap-belt portion of the system.
I am able to tighten the lap-belts, left and right all the way until there is no adjustment left (the double sewn ends interfere and allow no more adjustment) and they are still a bit loose (maybe snug is a better word, but certainly not tight) on me. The instructions say the lap belts should be tight across the thighs and ride between the thighs and upper iliac crest (I know where that is). Then when I then adjust the shoulder belts it pulls the seat belt release to about the level of my belly button, which is too high and of course it just feels like the lap belt is riding across my lower abdomen. This is a problem for which I don't know what the solution is. Anyone else have this issue? Or, maybe I just need to eat more.

Otherwise, they look nice, but I need to make sure they function properly as this is the most important reason for having these belts. Any ideas are welcome.

[roycemek]

Does the rear seat cushion need to be removed to mount the rear outside belt? If so is it easy to remove the rear seat cushions? Any pics on how this is done? Thanks.

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by roycemek

Does the rear seat cushion need to be removed to mount the rear outside belt? If so is it easy to remove the rear seat cushions? Any pics on how this is done? Thanks.

Rear seat attaches at two points along its leading edge. Grab under the front of the seat cushion about 1 or 1.5 feet from the door panel and give the cushion a good upward yank. Comes out easily. Then repeat on other side. Seat cushion then pulls right out.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by VictorH

Just a few items of note as I'm one of the early adopters.

I just installed my Quick-fit Pro set (driver and passenger) this afternoon. I ordered the Pro because I have a head and neck restraint (Simpson rage). Installation is fine but a couple of notes.
1) It's possible to bend the outside front seat brackets so that it conforms to the stock seat bracket and comes out in the same location as the stock belt. It's a bit of a twisted Z bend but it's doable (mild bends, not extreme) and fits nice, with no interference with the seat bolster.

2) The stock outside seat bracket mount uses a hook (hooks onto a bar) and rear tab (you have to look at the mount to see what I'm talking about) which makes the seat belt mount bolt a minimal to low stress item in the event of an accident, as it's really just a fulcrum or pivot point if anything happens (though there would not be any appreciable movement of the bracket). The mount is also a beefy steel unit. The hook at the front will take most of the force. The Schroth bracket doesn't have this provision and consequently, for any impact the force through the Schroth belt will be completely taken by the stock bolt. I assume this is probably okay since the Mini mounts the same way.

3) The way the outside rear seat belt bracket mounts with the Schroth unit is such that in the event of an accident the forces are directed such that the only thing the bracket can do is bend back on itself. This is not ideal as you would like to have the forces directed in the longitudinal axis. The stock BMW bracket doesn't address this either, so maybe it's not a big deal, however, the BMW bracket is "beefy," i.e. it's not going to bend anyway. The Schroth bracket you can bend by hand when it's held in a vice. Since it's only one of the 4 mounting points maybe it's not that big a deal.

4) The last item is the most troubling for me as I can deal with the things noted above. Just as a prelude this this issue, since it's relevant, I'm 6'2" and 178 lbs. Now, the problem, with the seat properly adjusted for me, or if you follow the Schroth instructions and move the seat back a bit more than you would use, adjust the belts and then move the seat forward to tighten them up, I have a problem with the lap-belt portion of the system.
I am able to tighten the lap-belts, left and right all the way until there is no adjustment left (the double sewn ends interfere and allow no more adjustment) and they are still a bit loose (maybe snug is a better word, but certainly not tight) on me. The instructions say the lap belts should be tight across the thighs and ride between the thighs and upper iliac crest (I know where that is). Then when I then adjust the shoulder belts it pulls the seat belt release to about the level of my belly button, which is too high and of course it just feels like the lap belt is riding across my lower abdomen. This is a problem for which I don't know what the solution is. Anyone else have this issue? Or, maybe I just need to eat more.

Otherwise, they look nice, but I need to make sure they function properly as this is the most important reason for having these belts. Any ideas are welcome.

So is the mini belt a half ass fix, like my velcro seats, or is this a permanant solution? The rear mount point being easily bent doesn't sound too helpful in a crash.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by chriszeh

So is the mini belt a half ass fix, like my velcro seats, or is this a permanant solution? The rear mount point being easily bent doesn't sound too helpful in a crash.

In many applications, those metal mounts are supposed to be slightly bent. Not re-bent many times over though.

[LiM3y]

Originally Posted by VictorH

Just a few items of note as I'm one of the early adopters.

I just installed my Quick-fit Pro set (driver and passenger) this afternoon. I ordered the Pro because I have a head and neck restraint (Simpson rage). Installation is fine but a couple of notes.
1) It's possible to bend the outside front seat brackets so that it conforms to the stock seat bracket and comes out in the same location as the stock belt. It's a bit of a twisted Z bend but it's doable (mild bends, not extreme) and fits nice, with no interference with the seat bolster.

2) The stock outside seat bracket mount uses a hook (hooks onto a bar) and rear tab (you have to look at the mount to see what I'm talking about) which makes the seat belt mount bolt a minimal to low stress item in the event of an accident, as it's really just a fulcrum or pivot point if anything happens (though there would not be any appreciable movement of the bracket). The mount is also a beefy steel unit. The hook at the front will take most of the force. The Schroth bracket doesn't have this provision and consequently, for any impact the force through the Schroth belt will be completely taken by the stock bolt. I assume this is probably okay since the Mini mounts the same way.

3) The way the outside rear seat belt bracket mounts with the Schroth unit is such that in the event of an accident the forces are directed such that the only thing the bracket can do is bend back on itself. This is not ideal as you would like to have the forces directed in the longitudinal axis. The stock BMW bracket doesn't address this either, so maybe it's not a big deal, however, the BMW bracket is "beefy," i.e. it's not going to bend anyway. The Schroth bracket you can bend by hand when it's held in a vice. Since it's only one of the 4 mounting points maybe it's not that big a deal.

4) The last item is the most troubling for me as I can deal with the things noted above. Just as a prelude this this issue, since it's relevant, I'm 6'2" and 178 lbs. Now, the problem, with the seat properly adjusted for me, or if you follow the Schroth instructions and move the seat back a bit more than you would use, adjust the belts and then move the seat forward to tighten them up, I have a problem with the lap-belt portion of the system.
I am able to tighten the lap-belts, left and right all the way until there is no adjustment left (the double sewn ends interfere and allow no more adjustment) and they are still a bit loose (maybe snug is a better word, but certainly not tight) on me. The instructions say the lap belts should be tight across the thighs and ride between the thighs and upper iliac crest (I know where that is). Then when I then adjust the shoulder belts it pulls the seat belt release to about the level of my belly button, which is too high and of course it just feels like the lap belt is riding across my lower abdomen. This is a problem for which I don't know what the solution is. Anyone else have this issue? Or, maybe I just need to eat more.

Otherwise, they look nice, but I need to make sure they function properly as this is the most important reason for having these belts. Any ideas are welcome.

I fixed the lapbelt problem by sitting in the seat, tightening the lab belt then unclipping and further shortening the straps a 1/2 - 1/4" each and reclipping in. This way they are much tighter than you can hand tighten whilst sitting and they don't ride up with the shoulder straps tightened up

[adc]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

In many applications, those metal mounts are supposed to be slightly bent. Not re-bent many times over though.

+1. Exactly. The Schroth instructions show the angles at which the brackets can be bent, so if your installation requires you to exceed them, you have a problem.

But bending is perfectly normal for many of these applications (and not only Quick Fit).

[CatchM3IfYouCan181]

Spoke to HMS last week and they advised me to get the rally 4 harness. rec'd already and installing today (pics to follow). Will try em out at this weekend.