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      10-05-2011, 08:47 PM   #45
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Fellows ... every ///M car in her days could eventually be a legend ... in the end what matters most are .... what once one said ...

....... " It's all in the eyes of the beholder" ..... this after all makes life so interesting that we are all different like the cars we drive are all different ... what matters to me is what the BMW ... advertisement ... in 2007 said ... and to me that is the truth ... something I can feel when I drive my ///M3 ... now my sixth BMW.
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      10-05-2011, 10:36 PM   #46
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No. The NA motor might be but not the E9X. While a great car and one I love, it lost it's way a bit.

Does it matter though? It's still a work of art!
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      10-06-2011, 12:27 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
in terms of handling it does.
its a surgeon's tool when it comes to turns etc..
and forget the technology of the engine (computations etc)
its out of this world.
In terms of nasty bad-ass torque it may not be the best
but did any other M3 before that broke any new round?
Surgeons tool when it comes to handling? I would agree its the best handling car when compared to its direct competitors (C63, IS-F, etc.) but it weighs ~3,700 lbs and has quite a bit of understeer. For its size and type (luxury sports car) it does handle extremely well.

Last edited by W Cole; 10-06-2011 at 12:33 AM.
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      10-06-2011, 01:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Cole View Post
Surgeons tool when it comes to handling? I would agree its the best handling car when compared to its direct competitors (C63, IS-F, etc.) but it weighs ~3,700 lbs and has quite a bit of understeer. For its size and type (luxury sports car) it does handle extremely well.
yeap
the next step will be porsche after that but its indeed 'surgical'
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      10-06-2011, 08:15 AM   #49
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ZCP is going to be a legend, base not so much.
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      10-06-2011, 09:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm def View Post
ZCP is going to be a legend, base not so much.
[
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      10-06-2011, 10:58 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The e9x never broke any new ground. Like I said above, I'd consider the engine to be legendary, but the car, No way.
WTF...

Straight comparison between the the S65 to the S54, and get back to me on the 'never broke any new ground'.
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      10-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #52
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm def View Post
ZCP is going to be a legend, base not so much.
[
Oh oh I think someone is trying to justify spending 2500$ by saying the comp pack is going to be legendary. I never realized a lower ride hight and fatter wheels would turn a car into a legend, I'm assuming you where just being a wise guy.
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      10-06-2011, 11:06 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Prophizee View Post
Oh oh I think someone is trying to justify spending 2500$ by saying the comp pack is going to be legendary. I never realized a lower ride hight and fatter wheels would turn a car into a legend, I'm assuming you where just being a wise guy.
You assumed correctly
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      10-06-2011, 01:28 PM   #54
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I believe the e9x M3 is lengendary in its own right because simply put, it is the best all rounded car without any compromises. It can do 0-60 in 3.9 (DCT anyways), handle way better then any car in its segment (or some costing way more). You can also drive it comfortably to work or on trips. How many cars can do that?

The new 'Stand Boss can match it in terms of raw performance but it cannot match in terms of refinement.

The 911 can win in the handling dept but it is not very practical. Also not easy to live with as a dd. Plus it cost more.

The Infiniti G series has more luxury/comfort and cheaper price but no match in performance (not even close).

IS-F, C63, RS4 all come close but in the end still lose.

So it is quite an amazing feat for the e9X M3 to do everything so well. Which is similar to what Clarkson had said previously.
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      10-06-2011, 05:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm def View Post
You assumed correctly
He ment the 2011.75 zcp will be legend.
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      10-06-2011, 05:46 PM   #56
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The E30 M3 is a legend because it redefined a segment.

The E9X is an awesome car. Not sure about being a legend.

The M3 is one of the best mainstream car models...second to the 911 maybe? Just off the top of my head and does not include supercars.
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      10-06-2011, 06:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
mustang is a legend...
And then it's crap .

OP should have started this thread by defining 'legend'. To me, a legend is something that has survived long enough to be remembered by most, whether good or bad. Just like the Mustang comment. Being a legend doesn't mean I want to own it. Pontiac is (or was ) a legend too.

If OP meant to say if the M3 will be seen as one of the best M3s ever built, I'd say probably yes, even when more powerful models will surely follow it. And yes, the engine is the main reason for that IMO. It's not the best at almost anything, but the combination makes it a great performance value overall.
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      10-06-2011, 08:40 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointerman View Post
Really? Comparing a GT3 to an M3? The GT3 had a base price of over $100k compared to a base price on the M3 of $55k. You think comparing a car that costs almost twice as much is valid?

All ALMS race cars start with a car off of the production line. The car is then heavily modified, but you can't take a turd and turn it into a great car. The M3 had a great starting point and has proved itself over the last few years. The M3 is also highly successful in other series with far few modifications such as the Continental Sports Car Challenge where the Turner Motorsports M3 is leading the championship and the Rum Bum M3 is 3rd.

This car is good.

Did you even read my posts to see that the gist isn't to make a comparison as to how the GT3 is faster, but as to why a car like the M3 doesn't have proper racing pedigree, because the venue for it to showcase it's talents is not there? The ALMS is too far removed from the stock car, and the Continental Challenge doesn't have enough in the way of challengers to make it a legitimate reason to consider the E9X M3 a lengend.

The reason why I brought the GT3 up in my first post was because it's actually raced heavily and successfully, albeit also modified from stock, but no where near the extent the ALMS M3s are. Therefore, in my opinion, the 997.2 GT3 and GT3RS are modern day legends. The M3, as good as it is, is not.

Back in the days of the E30 M3, it was winning almost every major touring car championship. Back in those days, touring cars were far more popular than they are today, and there were far more series that had high profiled. Perhaps with the addition of a US based equivalent to DTM, which is coming our way in the next few years, and the addition of Australian V8 Supercar races outside of Australia will help rekindle that popularity.

No one is arguing that the E9X M3 is a good car, a great car I'd say, but aside from wanting to be a fanboy, I don't see how it can be a legend.
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      10-06-2011, 09:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And then it's crap .

OP should have started this thread by defining 'legend'. To me, a legend is something that has survived long enough to be remembered by most, whether good or bad. Just like the Mustang comment. Being a legend doesn't mean I want to own it. Pontiac is (or was ) a legend too.
If OP meant to say if the M3 will be seen as one of the best M3s ever built, I'd say probably yes, even when more powerful models will surely follow it. And yes, the engine is the main reason for that IMO. It's not the best at almost anything, but the combination makes it a great performance value overall.
I saw some dude in a Ford Pinto last week....that car seems to have survived long enough, even if remembered as "bad"....Would that qualify as a legend also?
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      10-06-2011, 10:01 PM   #60
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The best at absolutely nothing but very good at absolutely everything equals legend in my mind.
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      10-07-2011, 12:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
To me, a legend is something that has survived long enough to be remembered by most, whether good or bad. Just like the Mustang comment. Being a legend doesn't mean I want to own it.
Agreed
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      10-07-2011, 09:29 AM   #62
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Had BMW built a true E9x CSL, I would then consider it for such status.
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      10-08-2011, 08:41 PM   #63
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e9x has to me the best suspension of all previous m3s....

GTR and CSL are legends.
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      10-08-2011, 09:13 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
mustang is a legend...
I don't know if prices at collector car auctions define a legend but here are some stats for the top 1,000 cars sold at auction in 2008-2009

Top Selling Mustangs

2008 Mustang Shelby GT500 KR Coupe - $605,000
2009 Mustang FR500 CJ Prototype #1 - $412,500
1970 Mustang Boss 302 TransAm Race Car - $407,000
1969 Mustang Boss 429 Fastback - $357,000
1969 Mustang Boss 429 Fastback - $330,000

The were 2 Post War BMW on the list (no M3s)
1968 BMW 507 SII Convertible - $935,000 (IMO one of the most beautiful cars ever made)
1957 BMW 503 Cabriolet - $231,000

For the most part post war BMWs do not have a strong presence in the collector car market and IMO many of them, including the 2800CS (one of my favorite cars), are very underpriced.

CA
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      10-09-2011, 01:21 AM   #65
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Interesting....I wonder what was so special about the 605K mustang?
is it an limited edition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I don't know if prices at collector car auctions define a legend but here are some stats for the top 1,000 cars sold at auction in 2008-2009

Top Selling Mustangs

2008 Mustang Shelby GT500 KR Coupe - $605,000
2009 Mustang FR500 CJ Prototype #1 - $412,500
1970 Mustang Boss 302 TransAm Race Car - $407,000
1969 Mustang Boss 429 Fastback - $357,000
1969 Mustang Boss 429 Fastback - $330,000

The were 2 Post War BMW on the list (no M3s)
1968 BMW 507 SII Convertible - $935,000 (IMO one of the most beautiful cars ever made)
1957 BMW 503 Cabriolet - $231,000

For the most part post war BMWs do not have a strong presence in the collector car market and IMO many of them, including the 2800CS (one of my favorite cars), are very underpriced.

CA
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      10-09-2011, 09:48 AM   #66
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The suspension is awesome.
The engine is good but breaks no new ground whatsoever.
The interior rattles and shakes for almost any excuse.
The DCT as produced for the first 2 years was a POS.

Legendary? No shortage of fanboys here.
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