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      10-04-2011, 11:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The e9x never broke any new ground. Like I said above, I'd consider the engine to be legendary, but the car, No way.
in terms of handling it does.
its a surgeon's tool when it comes to turns etc..
and forget the technology of the engine (computations etc)
its out of this world.
In terms of nasty bad-ass torque it may not be the best
but did any other M3 before that broke any new round?
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      10-04-2011, 11:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
in terms of handling it does.
its a surgeon's tool when it comes to turns etc..
and forget the technology of the engine (computations etc)
its out of this world.
In terms of nasty bad-ass torque it may not be the best
but did any other M3 before that broke any new round?
The M3 breaks ground in handling? I'm pretty sure there are cars that kill the M3 in performance so it's not new. The e30 broke new ground. That is a legend. The e9x was just tailored to sell like hotcakes.
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      10-04-2011, 11:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The M3 breaks ground in handling? I'm pretty sure there are cars that kill the M3 in performance so it's not new. The e30 broke new ground. That is a legend. The e9x was just tailored to sell like hotcakes.
Agree about the E30
in terms of handling on the e9x, with this kind money? of course it breaks ground...no?
can you come up with another example with this handling and price? and don't say mustang You need to pay at least twice the M3 price to get on a similar handling situation....
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      10-04-2011, 11:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
Agree about the E30
in terms of handling on the e9x, with this kind money? of course it breaks ground...no?
can you come up with another example with this handling and price? and don't say mustang You need to pay at least twice the M3 price to get on a similar handling situation....
Honestly, the GT keeps pace around a track with the M3. The Boss 302 will pretty much spank it, and the Leguna Seca version, the M3 stands no chance. For the money, the cars in this segment are all pretty darn close. The problem is, 99% of the people who own them will NEVER take them anywhere near their limits. I can agree the M3 is a bargain for what you get, just like the GT-R is a bargain supercar. The M3 is a great package all around, but it's not a legend. Not the e9x at least. Again, the S65 will go down in history as one of the all time best, but that's the only highlight of the e9x gen, in my opinion. The engine. Every ///M car before it has handled well. It's no surprise the e9x can take corners. So, it's not really 'groundbreaking'.
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      10-05-2011, 12:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Honestly, the GT keeps pace around a track with the M3. The Boss 302 will pretty much spank it, and the Leguna Seca version, the M3 stands no chance. For the money, the cars in this segment are all pretty darn close. The problem is, 99% of the people who own them will NEVER take them anywhere near their limits. I can agree the M3 is a bargain for what you get, just like the GT-R is a bargain supercar. The M3 is a great package all around, but it's not a legend. Not the e9x at least. Again, the S65 will go down in history as one of the all time best, but that's the only highlight of the e9x gen, in my opinion. The engine. Every ///M car before it has handled well. It's no surprise the e9x can take corners. So, it's not really 'groundbreaking'.
well It maybe then that i don't have an appropriate grasp of the term 'legendary' ...who knows
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      10-05-2011, 12:15 AM   #28
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      10-05-2011, 01:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by immiketoo View Post
Do we really need to remind you of the ALMS in which the M3 competes directly with Porsche's flagship car? And, if you think the Porsche is any closer to its production car, you are sadly mistaken. Both of these cars start out as a body tub in the white and the rest of the car is race. In fact, I would wager that they are damn near identical in terms of percentage of stock components vs race components.
I believe you misinterpreted my statement. Firstly, the ALMS cars, M3s or otherwise, are too far off from production models, so they don't have a true link to the production model from a racing pedigree standpoint. As for my comment about the GT3, I was referring to a pure stock vs stock. Take a GT3 to the track and an M3, and it's no contest in lap times. Even against the GTS, the GT3 is about a second faster. Anyway, it's less about that than the fact that the current E9X M3 isn't racing pound for pound against traditional sports cars and kicking their ass like the E30 did.

The E30 won almost every touring car champisonship betwee 87 and 91. Unfortunately, those types of champiosnhips hardly exist today, and the ones that exist have penalties they apply to normalize the racing that are atrocious and ridiciluous (even the FIA GT3 rules stink, although they do have an 4.4L S65 Z4 competiting in it). So the E9X doesn't have a venue to show off its racing ability, and without that, it cannot be legendary.
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      10-05-2011, 01:20 AM   #30
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It's a legend in it's class pitted against counterparts, the M3 took them all down. So, yes.
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      10-05-2011, 01:24 AM   #31
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Since I started the thread though I'd give my 2 cents. In the defining a legendary car they are many aspects to look at. Track, road, and others. The e9x in my opinion becomes a legend different from the original Audi quattro, e30 m3. The e9x set a benchmark that few other cars have done. Instead of being number one in one category it was 2nd or third in all categories. It wasn't the fastest but it always 2nd or third. The exhaust wasn't the best but always 2nd or third. It was wasn't the best handling but it was always 2nd or third. I could go on obviously but you get the idea. Thinking from that perspective I think it would qualify the e9x m3 as a legendary car. Also IMHO I think it is one of the few cars that Is at home on your local roads as much as it is home on the track. Personally I think that when the e9x m3 is set and done 10 years from now it will still be remembered as one of the greatest cars ever made in it's class. Also if BMW truly changes the BMW m3 coupe to the m4 then the e92 m3 will be the last m3 coupe ever developed and also the first and last m3 coupe to have a naturally aspirated v8.
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      10-05-2011, 02:15 AM   #32
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I'm not sure how to answer your question. But I believe it is legendary.

Status does not always equal specs. As a matter of fact, I can't imagine what kind of enthusiast would buy a boring car with great specs and figures over a lesser performer which thrills the shit out of you.

8400 RPM V8 - how many cars actually have this? (consider price)

Precession Handling / Thrill of driving - How many cars come close?

Great 6MT/Holy Fuck That's a Fast shift DCT paired so perfectly to the high-revving V8 - how many cars have this?

With that said, there are some very expensive, very high end vehicles that will demolish almost anything you throw at it. Then there's cars that will demolish those cars. Are all these legends? No. Not at all.

Does the M3 need to be the fastest car for your money to be considered a legend? No.

Does the fact that it is hands down, more fun and thrilling to drive than some of it's identical or better performing rivals make it a legend? I don't know.

I do know that the BMW M3 is a legend. Regarded highly and respected by enthusiasts of all measures. The E9X M3 does nothing to taint or question the legendary M3 marque. If anything it reinforces the fact that the M3 can grow from a i4-i6-V8, and satisfy, amuse, thrill, and beat it's current competition in most comparisons.
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      10-05-2011, 09:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Ferrari 250 GTO
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Shelby Cobra
Camaro Z28BMW 507
BMW M1
Ferrari Testarossa (original version)

CA
surely you mean Camaro IROCZ
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      10-05-2011, 10:16 AM   #34
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The engine is the most unique part of the car. I think how "legendary" the model is will highly depend on the next two M3s...
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      10-05-2011, 10:21 AM   #35
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Legendary cars generally have a strong racing heritage. In the US the E92 M3 has won the last two manufacturing championships in the ALMS. It has done quite well in several lesser series as well. I think when some time passes the car will be looked back on with a great deal of respect.
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      10-05-2011, 10:22 AM   #36
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didnt they sell less e9xs then e46s?
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      10-05-2011, 10:32 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
I believe you misinterpreted my statement. Firstly, the ALMS cars, M3s or otherwise, are too far off from production models, so they don't have a true link to the production model from a racing pedigree standpoint. As for my comment about the GT3, I was referring to a pure stock vs stock. Take a GT3 to the track and an M3, and it's no contest in lap times. Even against the GTS, the GT3 is about a second faster. Anyway, it's less about that than the fact that the current E9X M3 isn't racing pound for pound against traditional sports cars and kicking their ass like the E30 did.

The E30 won almost every touring car champisonship betwee 87 and 91. Unfortunately, those types of champiosnhips hardly exist today, and the ones that exist have penalties they apply to normalize the racing that are atrocious and ridiciluous (even the FIA GT3 rules stink, although they do have an 4.4L S65 Z4 competiting in it). So the E9X doesn't have a venue to show off its racing ability, and without that, it cannot be legendary.
Really? Comparing a GT3 to an M3? The GT3 had a base price of over $100k compared to a base price on the M3 of $55k. You think comparing a car that costs almost twice as much is valid?

All ALMS race cars start with a car off of the production line. The car is then heavily modified, but you can't take a turd and turn it into a great car. The M3 had a great starting point and has proved itself over the last few years. The M3 is also highly successful in other series with far few modifications such as the Continental Sports Car Challenge where the Turner Motorsports M3 is leading the championship and the Rum Bum M3 is 3rd.

This car is good.
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      10-05-2011, 11:32 AM   #38
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Asking this in a m3 forum? I suspect there may be some biased answers
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      10-05-2011, 01:56 PM   #39
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This seems like it's been beaten to death already but I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring anyways.

Engine - epic, but not legendary.

Car - Awesome, but I think the E46 M3 has more potential to be a classic. At least in my opinion that car changed everything for me, and cemented my BMW fanhood.
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      10-05-2011, 02:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
surely you mean Camaro IROCZ
I meant tbe Z28. The original Z28 with the solid lifter 302 engine.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 10-05-2011 at 06:53 PM.
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      10-05-2011, 06:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Don't get me wrong
I love my e92
But I feel to be a legend you need to bring something new to the table
Not just perfect an existing concept
The M3 was custom built, to be a winner
The e92 was built to sell a lot of cars
Comfort access this, idrive that, etc

Why nor start by saying what cars we feel are legends?
911 is a legend
The original Audi Quattro is a legend
The Lancia Delta Integrale is a legend
Original Golf GTi etc

Isn't the S65 "bringing something new to the table"?

You can't, on one hand, say the E9X M3 isn't legendary and then make a blanket statement like "the 911 is legendary". You have to be specific with the 911 version if you are being specific with the M.

A 996 versioned 911 is hardly legendary.

In my opionon I think "in general" the M3 is legendary...as is a 911.

Last edited by alms211; 10-05-2011 at 07:21 PM.
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      10-05-2011, 06:48 PM   #42
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It's too early to classify the E9* as a legend.
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      10-05-2011, 07:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
Isn't the S65 "bringing something new to the table"?

You can't, on one hand, say the E9X M3 isn't legendary and then make a blanket statement like "the 911 is legendary". You have to be specific with the 911 version if you are being specific with the M.

A 996 versioned 911 is hardly legendary.

In my opionon I think "in general" the M3 is legendary...as is a 911.
What's the S65 bringing to the table?
How to chop 2 cylinders off a V10 to make a V8?
surely if we're talking about bringing something new, it would be the S85
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      10-05-2011, 07:31 PM   #44
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On a side note
Steve Jobs was a legend
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