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      10-12-2011, 01:08 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
Not going to turn this thread into another Hamilton discussion, but the incident with Massa was relatively minor.

I don't see the big deal. If Button hadn't backed out at the start, it would have been the same thing there. So maybe you should be asking where Massa's head was since he chose to not back out and let it hang there. In fact Hamilton almost got a 2nd puncture out of the deal because Massa's winglet hit the back of Hamilton's front left tire.

Anyways, a puncture put him behind the curve, lost him time, and offset his pit stops. You can hardly blame him for that.
Did we even watch the same grand prix? It was pretty clear that Hamilton chopped across Massa, and didn't leave him enough space. He was lucky to get away from that without any damage to his car. I never said he deserved a penalty - I was just commenting that it was HIS mistake, not Massa's...once again. Watch the replay carefully...Massa is almost alongside, then Hamilton moves across while Massa is already on the brakes - reminded me of the Kobayashi-Hamilton incident.

Martin Brundle, a very well respected commentator, mentioned on the post-race show (BBC forum) that Hamilton appears to be having trouble with his peripheral vision. Apparently, Hamilton had confided that he's having trouble with his mirrors due to vibration or something of that sort.

Either way, Hamilton's race craft has been sloppy, although he was unlucky to pick up that puncture today.
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      10-12-2011, 01:17 PM   #112
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I think he just realised that F1 cars have mirrors and that visibility through them is poor.
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      10-12-2011, 01:25 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
Did we even watch the same grand prix? It was pretty clear that Hamilton chopped across Massa, and didn't leave him enough space. He was lucky to get away from that without any damage to his car. I never said he deserved a penalty - I was just commenting that it was HIS mistake, not Massa's...once again. Watch the replay carefully...Massa is almost alongside, then Hamilton moves across while Massa is already on the brakes - reminded me of the Kobayashi-Hamilton incident.
I'm not sure that we did.

All of the replays show that Hamilton didn't even look over to his left at all. So I wouldn't call it 'chopping' as he didn't even know Massa was there. He was just taking his normal line to take the right hand corner on.

Regarding Massa, why was he even in that position? There is no way that he was going to take Hamilton on the outside on such a tight corner. And he definitely didn't look like he wanted to avoid an accident. He just put his car 3/4 the length up there on the outside and left it. Hamilton didn't move his steering wheel to block or anything, as he was unknowing to Massa, that was just the trajectory Hamilton had been on while approaching the corner.

Ask yourself this, if it had been Hamilton on the outside making the same move would you still be saying the same thing? (Don't forget Massa's wing hit the back of Hamilton's tire.)


Regarding his comment about vision, with as much turmoil as he has been in this year what else could he say? He isn't going to deliberately start another feud or fight for the media to frenzy over. He is in 'take it on the chin' mode now to finish the year off. But being Hamilton, unfortunately he is damned either way.
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      10-12-2011, 01:27 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
Did we even watch the same grand prix? It was pretty clear that Hamilton chopped across Massa, and didn't leave him enough space. He was lucky to get away from that without any damage to his car. I never said he deserved a penalty - I was just commenting that it was HIS mistake, not Massa's...once again. Watch the replay carefully...Massa is almost alongside, then Hamilton moves across while Massa is already on the brakes - reminded me of the Kobayashi-Hamilton incident.

Martin Brundle, a very well respected commentator, mentioned on the post-race show (BBC forum) that Hamilton appears to be having trouble with his peripheral vision. Apparently, Hamilton had confided that he's having trouble with his mirrors due to vibration or something of that sort.

Either way, Hamilton's race craft has been sloppy, although he was unlucky to pick up that puncture today.
Exactly, to me, its the same mistake as Spa, Hamilton wasn't realize and expecting another driver to be at the position when he going for a corner. Definitely Hamilton's mistake, no doubt about it, but penalty, neh...its more silly mistakes of his bad season.

Its easy to say it now, but they should've realize the vibration on Practice sessions and have the race engineer to alert the driver some other cars fast approaching, so give room or block before he's side by side.
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      10-12-2011, 01:32 PM   #115
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Plus, I don't see why Massa should be so upset about it, I understand it, but as a professional driver. He should know shit happens in racing, and now these incidents are messing with his mind and confidence. Plus he has a bigger issue to deal with (his race result in Ferrari), rather than just Hamilton.
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      10-12-2011, 02:37 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Plus, I don't see why Massa should be so upset about it, I understand it, but as a professional driver. He should know shit happens in racing, and now these incidents are messing with his mind and confidence. Plus he has a bigger issue to deal with (his race result in Ferrari), rather than just Hamilton.
Absolutely agree with you re: Massa. He just needs to focus on getting results - tangling with Hamilton will get him nowhere.
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      10-12-2011, 03:22 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
Absolutely agree with you re: Massa. He just needs to focus on getting results - tangling with Hamilton will get him nowhere.
Actually Hamilton tangled to him...
j/k~

A moment post race anger is ok, but keep going on and on for weeks is boring, and very unprofessional, and eventually get to Massa, very distracting to Felipe at the moment.

Same does Hamilton, the media hype of him and massa was very distracting. Especially when they blow the whole thing out of proportion, fueled by Massa's reaction after the Singapore GP, and team radio "destroying his race". Every move by Massa and Hamilton together was put into magnifying glass. We should look at the bigger picture of the entire race, and the entire season.
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      10-13-2011, 09:00 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
I'm not sure that we did.

All of the replays show that Hamilton didn't even look over to his left at all. So I wouldn't call it 'chopping' as he didn't even know Massa was there. He was just taking his normal line to take the right hand corner on.

Regarding Massa, why was he even in that position? There is no way that he was going to take Hamilton on the outside on such a tight corner. And he definitely didn't look like he wanted to avoid an accident. He just put his car 3/4 the length up there on the outside and left it. Hamilton didn't move his steering wheel to block or anything, as he was unknowing to Massa, that was just the trajectory Hamilton had been on while approaching the corner.

Ask yourself this, if it had been Hamilton on the outside making the same move would you still be saying the same thing? (Don't forget Massa's wing hit the back of Hamilton's tire.)


Regarding his comment about vision, with as much turmoil as he has been in this year what else could he say? He isn't going to deliberately start another feud or fight for the media to frenzy over. He is in 'take it on the chin' mode now to finish the year off. But being Hamilton, unfortunately he is damned either way.
Honestly, I would have. I'm not biased against Hamilton, and I'm usually one of the first ones to praise him when he's had a solid race. That being said, I feel that his race-craft has been careless, this incident included.

I probably used the wrong phrasing though - 'chopped' isn't quite accurate since it obviously wasn't intentional. But it was a careless move, just like the one on Kobayashi - he had the inside line, he should have been watching his mirrors.

Massa had every right to challenge for that position (IMO), just as Kobayashi did at Spa. They are racing, they don't have to simply move over for the other guy. That being said, if I were Massa, I would probably just let Hamilton go through. He's quicker, and he's only going to mess up your race at this point in time. Massa is just being a bit too hotheaded and is probably under huge pressure from his team right now.
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      10-13-2011, 09:19 AM   #119
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Apparently Massa is not over the incident, how long he's been racing in F1?
He should know better there's always inconsistencies in FIA stewards. He now ask for consistency from FIA??? (Or you mean punish everyone who touches his last Ferrari???)

If he really put the "incidents" behind him, he would've shut up and held his trophy up high and show who's the daddy! Keep talking about the same crap won't help your result Felipe...

Quote:
Felipe Massa has called on the FIA to be more consistent when doling out penalties, but insists he has put his recent on-track clashes with Lewis Hamilton behind him.

Massa has been involved in two incidents with Hamilton at the last two races, both of which resulted in damage to his car which hampered his chances of better finish. In Singapore the contact resulted in a right-rear puncture and in Japan he lost part of his front wing and sustained damage to the floor of his Ferrari. Hamilton was penalised for the Singapore incident, but the stewards in Japan decided not to take action after reviewing the incident.

While the circumstances were different in both cases - Hamilton was defending rather than attacking in Japan - Massa believes the FIA should have been more consistent. Asked about his feelings towards Hamilton following the two incidents, Massa said: "I don't care any more about this and will carry on doing my job as usual. Now, I am only looking ahead, thinking of the next race. Nothing that happened in the last couple of races was of my doing, therefore the only thing that would be interesting would be to see some consistency in the penalties imposed for driving errors."

Massa is hoping he will be more competitive in Korea, after watching his Ferrari team-mate finish second at Suzuka while he could only manage seventh.

"It's true the car was more competitive in the last race than in Singapore, Spa or Monza," he said. "I think it depends on the race track, with some being better for us, others more difficult. Therefore I hope the upcoming tracks suit our car so we can be more competitive, starting here, then moving on to India which none of us knows yet.

"We are not sure how competitive we will be in qualifying but, with a difficult race for everyone, strategy will be very important and everything can change very quickly, which means we have every chance of getting a significant result in the race."

Asked whether he, Hamilton and Mark Webber need to ask questions of themselves after being outperformed by their respective team-mates, Massa answered: "We have nothing to ask, we must only do something. It's true our team-mates have done a better job so I hope I can be more competitive in these last four races, which is also important with an eye on next year."
http://en.espnf1.com/korea/motorsport/story/61409.html
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