BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Photography/Videography
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #1
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Shooting the sun

I've seen pics with the sun clearly in the frame and not blown out into a big white blob. How does one do this? I can never seem to get a nice round disc or starred disc like some folks do. In these pics the sun was not too bright to look at directly. You could see it was a nice round shape. Yet I couldn't capture that. Does it take a 10-stop ND filter to avoid blowing out the sun?



__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl

Last edited by M_Six; 09-23-2011 at 12:17 PM.
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 12:12 PM   #2
Mr Tonka
Tonka.... Mr. Tonka
 
Drives: Exceptionally well :)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 1,147
iTrader: (0)

prolly a gradient ND filter.

http://www.singh-ray.com/inthefield.html
__________________
-Joe


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat
Mr Tonka is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 01:03 PM   #3
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Here's an example. (Not my shot.)



Although looking through this thread on POTN I see several such images and they all have two things in common: they're taken with the 10-22mm and they have cloudless blue skies.
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 01:06 PM   #4
infinitekid2002
Creepin while ya sleepin
 
infinitekid2002's Avatar
 
Drives: Like a Bat out of Hell
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: City of Angels

Posts: 3,364
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 135i  [3.71]
I'M BLIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
infinitekid2002 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 01:17 PM   #5
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitekid2002 View Post
I'M BLIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 04:54 PM   #6
Mr Tonka
Tonka.... Mr. Tonka
 
Drives: Exceptionally well :)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tampa, FL

Posts: 1,147
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
Here's an example. (Not my shot.)



Although looking through this thread on POTN I see several such images and they all have two things in common: they're taken with the 10-22mm and they have cloudless blue skies.
likely 3 things in common: under exposure elsewhere in the image. Unless they are using a device to stop down the sun it's nearly impossible properly expose an image with the in the frame.

BTW, i should have put a disclaimer up with the link i posted above saying i'm not responsible for the amount of money you'll want to spend on filters after watching that video.
__________________
-Joe


"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." — Frédéric Bastiat
Mr Tonka is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 05:42 PM   #7
BillLee
Major General
 
BillLee's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: HTX

Posts: 5,223
iTrader: (21)

Garage List
09 E92 M3  [0.00]
08 E90 335i  [4.65]
bracketing?
BillLee is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 05:44 PM   #8
dryicerx
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335is
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 382
iTrader: (1)

Exposure bracketing (one exposure with the subject properly exposed, and another stepped way to where the sun is clearly visible, you may need a ND filter for this exposure). Then combine the two in post process.

Gradient/Graduated ND filter, but may not give the best freedom.

Or combine both the above for maximum freedom.
dryicerx is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #9
Trijicon
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 236
iTrader: (0)

ND filter and stop down
Trijicon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 06:26 PM   #10
Jon D
Colonel
 
Jon D's Avatar
 
Drives: F12 640i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

Posts: 2,567
iTrader: (0)

Lowest ISO, stop down and, if necessary, ND filter.
Attached Images
 
Jon D is offline   Scotland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 06:47 PM   #11
infinitekid2002
Creepin while ya sleepin
 
infinitekid2002's Avatar
 
Drives: Like a Bat out of Hell
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: City of Angels

Posts: 3,364
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 135i  [3.71]
^Minimalism?
__________________
infinitekid2002 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 08:50 PM   #12
3_runner
Second Lieutenant
 
3_runner's Avatar
 
Drives: 328xi
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cape Cod

Posts: 197
iTrader: (1)

PM TL, kid takes amazing pics.
3_runner is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-23-2011, 11:31 PM   #13
skinrock
Agent Smith
 
skinrock's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Fusion AWD
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Matrix

Posts: 2,860
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2007 335i  [3.45]
Only one I ever got was during a sunset, and the rest of the frame was under-exposed:



As others said, a graduated neutral density filter will let you separate the scene, but if it's not a clear cut line (like the one with the building), you will need to take multiple shots to get the full exposure range.
skinrock is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2011, 07:38 AM   #14
joots
Private
 
Drives: e90 328xi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ks

Posts: 58
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
Here's an example. (Not my shot.)



Although looking through this thread on POTN I see several such images and they all have two things in common: they're taken with the 10-22mm and they have cloudless blue skies.
Use higher f stop to get this effect, like f20
joots is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2011, 09:21 AM   #15
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I was shooting at f22 above. Helped a little, but still washed it out. I think the ND grad filter on top of my CP filter might work.
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2011, 09:28 AM   #16
oneintheory
no longer a BMW owner
 
Drives: 2011 Ford Edge Sport
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Suffolk/Chesapeake, VA

Posts: 1,468
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Six View Post
Here's an example. (Not my shot.)



Although looking through this thread on POTN I see several such images and they all have two things in common: they're taken with the 10-22mm and they have cloudless blue skies.
that looks like it's shot through another window. that sun flare pattern is unnatural.
oneintheory is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2011, 03:09 PM   #17
remmib
General
 
remmib's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F10 520d M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Norway

Posts: 25,958
iTrader: (0)

I know I had a pics of the sun like in M_Six example pic.

It's just a snat shot, but here you go.

This is straight out of camera, one exposure.
Canon 7D + 10-22@10mm, 1/200sec and f/10. And probably a CPL filter.
Attached Images
 
__________________

F10 520d M-Sport Alpine White | HRE P43SC 20x9+20x11 | Michelin PSS 255/35+295/30 | KW V3 Coilover | M5 Front Sway Bar + M550d Rear Sway Bar | 3D Design Front Lip | BMW M Performance CF Spoiler | BMW M Performance Diffuser | BMW M Performance Black Grills | BMW M Performance Pedals |
remmib is offline   Norway
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2011, 06:04 PM   #18
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
So again, the 10-22mm seems to be the key. I haven't seen the sun like that in a clear blue sky pic taken with any other lens.
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2011, 12:04 AM   #19
fluidkaos
It's like Chaos, only smoother.
 
fluidkaos's Avatar
 
Drives: like a madman.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Texas

Posts: 340
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 E92 335i  [4.87]
Another thing to look at is that all the shots that are showing the disc of the sun with rays are clear day no haze shots, and the original shots with blown portions you provided are through cloud and haze. This diffuses the light quite a bit. Even in the clear day shots, the sun is blown out, its just a sharp image of a blown out area. With the haze in your shots it's spreading the blown out portions beyond the disc of the sun itself.
__________________
fluidkaos is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2011, 12:26 AM   #20
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluidkaos View Post
Another thing to look at is that all the shots that are showing the disc of the sun with rays are clear day no haze shots, and the original shots with blown portions you provided are through cloud and haze. This diffuses the light quite a bit. Even in the clear day shots, the sun is blown out, its just a sharp image of a blown out area. With the haze in your shots it's spreading the blown out portions beyond the disc of the sun itself.
Exactly. And my issue is that my eyes see the sun as a perfect round disc in the haze and fog. So how do I capture that without blowing out highlights or ending up with a grossly underexposed foreground?

I'm thinking I need an ND filter, so I just ordered one. We'll see how it works. And the next time I see the sun filtered through fog, I'll try the ND filter and I'll try a shot with my 10-22mm to see how that lens handles it.
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2011, 08:24 AM   #21
vachss
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ventura County, CA

Posts: 785
iTrader: (1)

Mark,

I'm wondering if this is one of those times when you just need HDR to replicate what you see. I'd try exposing for the sun, which should create a nice disk, but dramatically underexpose the foreground. Then blend that image with one properly exposed for the foreground (possibly with some intermediate exposures as well if those two extremes differ by too many stops).

Note that the sun is massively overexposed in all the shots where the sun shows up as a star shaped flare, while the sky surrounding is more normally exposed. If you're looking for that sort of effect I think you need to have a clear sky to contrast with the sun rather than clouds which will scatter and obscure the flare (that and a lens with flat rather than rounded aperture blades). Most folks prefer rounded blades for the cleaner bokeh they produce, but if you want sharply defined diffraction highlights in your flare flat blades are the way to go.
vachss is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2011, 01:29 PM   #22
M_Six
Free Thinker
 
M_Six's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 MB C300 4matic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Foothills of Mt Level

Posts: 4,845
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by vachss View Post
Mark,

I'm wondering if this is one of those times when you just need HDR to replicate what you see. I'd try exposing for the sun, which should create a nice disk, but dramatically underexpose the foreground. Then blend that image with one properly exposed for the foreground (possibly with some intermediate exposures as well if those two extremes differ by too many stops).

Note that the sun is massively overexposed in all the shots where the sun shows up as a star shaped flare, while the sky surrounding is more normally exposed. If you're looking for that sort of effect I think you need to have a clear sky to contrast with the sun rather than clouds which will scatter and obscure the flare (that and a lens with flat rather than rounded aperture blades). Most folks prefer rounded blades for the cleaner bokeh they produce, but if you want sharply defined diffraction highlights in your flare flat blades are the way to go.
You're probably right. A full HDR bracket of maybe 5 shots. The trouble there might be in the blending. If the cloudy/foggy area around the sun is also underexposed it will be hard to get it to match the normally exposed sky. It's just odd that to the human eye the sun behind the clouds or fog is a nice round disc and yet there seems to be no easy way to get a modern DSLR sensor to record that same image. I'm sure it's possible. I just need to keep at it. Next time I have the chance, I'll grab some bracketed shots. I also have an ND filter coming, so that may help.
__________________
Mark
Randomography
Flickr

"The $0.99 menu was put on this Earth for a good damn reason." -Weebl
M_Six is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:57 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST