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      09-26-2011, 07:19 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I'm sure Vettel still has .7 in the bag easily...or even faster if he had to....

C'mon Massa, get over with...its just racing....shit happens...and he just blames everything happens to him now on him, as if Hamilton ruined his "race victory"....
Well, given that Hamilton crashed into him at Monaco, nearly took him out in quali in Singapore, and then punctured his tire at Singapore, you can't blame Massa for getting a bit upset. If the roles were reversed, hamilton would have been on the radio in the race complaining about 'Massa crashing into' him. Let's also not forget that Massa is under huge pressure this season - he has failed to perform anywhere near the level of Alonso, and he probably realizes that after 2012 his seat could easily be replaced by someone like Perez or Kubica.

So I ended up watching after all, and I thought the first half was more entertaining than I expected. DRS did a great job of getting people into position to overtake, although it might have been a touch too strong for my liking. Hamilton appears to be turning into "crash kid" yet again, although he drove very well to recover to 5th. Alonso appears to start great and then be stuck on a treadmill as everyone catapults past him during the race - as a Ferrari fan, it's worrisome, and hopefully Ferrari can get out of this rut next season. Vettel was more or less faultless, although I imagine his heart probably skipped a few beats when that Lotus almost took him out in the pit lane. Congrats to him, there is no doubt in my mind that he deserves this championship - he has the strongest car by far, but he has taken 100% advantage of the situation, and has been as close to perfection as is possible.

All in all, not a terrible race for a street circuit (infinitely better than Valencia) , but largely predictable thanks to the huge gap between each constructor. Now we go to Japan and Korea, where Red Bull traditionally dominate.

Last edited by Echo M3; 09-26-2011 at 07:31 AM.
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      09-26-2011, 07:24 AM   #68
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This is the first season I've been truly following F1 so I'm still learning alot but it seems to me that Hamilton drives like an ass. I'm not referring to today's race specifically but he seems like a jerk and he is always in some wreck/controversy. Anyone else agree or am I way off?
It's really bizarre. Up till this season, he was a brilliant overtaker. He seemed to be able to thread a fine line without ever crossing it. He's still pretty good, but it seems that his overtakes are often reckless this season, as if he has lost that ability to discriminate and pull off clean moves consistently. Maybe he is just having a bad season
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      09-26-2011, 07:28 AM   #69
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LOL...I was looking for that....
Hamilton was like..."WTF??" oh is you....

I don''t see why Massa getting so pissed this time....as if this is the only cause of his P9 for the race result...and Hamilton wrecked his race....yes...of course the puncture caused him to be at the back....

but same goes to Hamilton, even served a drive thru penalty and still back up to P5 where strategy and good racing afterwards....Massa hasn't been competitive all season anywayz...
Ok, I never saw that clip. That was pretty unprofessional of Massa, I admit it. If you have an issue, you should bring it up in private, not on live TV. He is acting like Hamilton in Monaco, lol.
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      09-26-2011, 07:53 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
It's really bizarre. Up till this season, he was a brilliant overtaker. He seemed to be able to thread a fine line without ever crossing it. He's still pretty good, but it seems that his overtakes are often reckless this season, as if he has lost that ability to discriminate and pull off clean moves consistently. Maybe he is just having a bad season
He definitely has made some bonehead decisions, but
I think it's partially due to pushing harder on a less competitive car.
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      09-26-2011, 08:04 AM   #71
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Hamilton out-braked himself and locked up prior to turn-in. Rather than going wide, he just decided to turn in on Massa causing the incident. How that wasn't 100% Hamilton's fault and completely unnecessary, I have no idea. I think he was justifiably punished for the error.
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      09-26-2011, 08:32 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
There is a reason that we call him Crashilton
Not all of us, mate.

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Originally Posted by bmwSC8 View Post
Massa had to crawl back to the pit on 3 tires. Granted, Hamilton had wing damage, but I'd rather have that than my rear right tire missing.
Massa fed back into p20 after he finally made it back to the pits.
Hamilton fed to p16 after his new front wing, and then ended up in p23 after his drive through.

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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Hamilton out-braked himself and locked up prior to turn-in. Rather than going wide, he just decided to turn in on Massa causing the incident. How that wasn't 100% Hamilton's fault and completely unnecessary, I have no idea. I think he was justifiably punished for the error.
As you say, it was an error. No more, no less. He certainly didn't intend to do it as he would have eventually passed Massa in another couple of laps and could have contended for a podium.

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Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
He definitely has made some bonehead decisions, but
I think it's partially due to pushing harder on a less completive car.
I think this says most of it. Hamilton was fighting hard to try to win. Then he gets dealt a spade and has to push harder. All of this started from his qualifying which twice, for no fault of his own he was hampered by bad luck. (Puncture and the refuelling delay) This left him down the field and behind his teammate on the start. After the first corner he got pidgeon holed into p8 and there was really nothing he could have done about it.
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      09-26-2011, 08:36 AM   #73
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That race was epicly boring!

Hopefully one day I will see refueling back in my beloved sport.

Could you imagine figuring out fuel strategy with these crazy tires!
NO no...epic boring race is always valencia, Singapore had some good moments but overall race is lacking tense and excitement moments. I saw comfortably on my sofa texting with friends in Asia and I still didn't miss any action (if any).

A few collisions, two ballsy overtake by webbo, and standard-boring-DRS overtake. Watching Hamilton climbing from the back was quite good. That's about it for the race...
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      09-26-2011, 08:39 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
NO no...epic boring race is always valencia, Singapore had some good moments but overall race is lacking tense and excitement moments. I saw comfortably on my sofa texting with friends in Asia and I still didn't miss any action (if any).

A few collisions, two ballsy overtake by webbo, and standard-boring-DRS overtake. Watching Hamilton climbing from the back was quite good. That's about it for the race...
I thought Hamilton's overtakes on the Merc's were pretty great. Especially his first on Schumacher. Up the inside, such speed.
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      09-26-2011, 08:40 AM   #75
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Seemed like Hamilton was extremely bad luck this season, added to a few bad judgement earlier this season. He's always at the wrong place at the wrong time.

As for this one in Singapore, penalty is justified, and the issue should end when the checkered flag falled. But for Massa to be still upset and roar up in front of the press, that was unnecessary.
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      09-26-2011, 08:50 AM   #76
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Quote:
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Well, given that Hamilton crashed into him at Monaco, nearly took him out in quali in Singapore, and then punctured his tire at Singapore, you can't blame Massa for getting a bit upset. If the roles were reversed, hamilton would have been on the radio in the race complaining about 'Massa crashing into' him. Let's also not forget that Massa is under huge pressure this season - he has failed to perform anywhere near the level of Alonso, and he probably realizes that after 2012 his seat could easily be replaced by someone like Perez or Kubica.

So I ended up watching after all, and I thought the first half was more entertaining than I expected. DRS did a great job of getting people into position to overtake, although it might have been a touch too strong for my liking. Hamilton appears to be turning into "crash kid" yet again, although he drove very well to recover to 5th. Alonso appears to start great and then be stuck on a treadmill as everyone catapults past him during the race - as a Ferrari fan, it's worrisome, and hopefully Ferrari can get out of this rut next season. Vettel was more or less faultless, although I imagine his heart probably skipped a few beats when that Lotus almost took him out in the pit lane. Congrats to him, there is no doubt in my mind that he deserves this championship - he has the strongest car by far, but he has taken 100% advantage of the situation, and has been as close to perfection as is possible.

All in all, not a terrible race for a street circuit (infinitely better than Valencia) , but largely predictable thanks to the huge gap between each constructor. Now we go to Japan and Korea, where Red Bull traditionally dominate.
A few things, first off a near incident isn't an incident at all. Looking at how Hamilton ran out of time later in the session for another go at a lap, I'd say his rush earlier was justified.

There is also a difference between getting on the radio, and physically/publicly expressing your displeasure. While you likened Massa's action to Hamilton post-race Monaco, they aren't even remotely the same incident. Hamilton joked in poor taste about the Steward's intentions, and Massa let his frustration turn into a physical altercation.

I'll agree that Singapore was vastely better than Valencia, I enjoyed this race. I'll also say that Vettel has to be the most hidden winner of all time. He only had like 2 spots of TV coverage the entire race. I almost forget he was even in it still.

Off that last point I'd like to divert alittle bit. I think instead of 107% they need to bump it to 105%. HRT, Virgin, and even Lotus don't belong out there yet. (Though kudos to Lotus for putting forth the best effort.) However, Trulli prevented Button even remotely challenging Vettel after the safety car release by holding up the field and Vettel sped off. Button was stuck 3 cars back, watching the chance at a win literally fly away. They might need to do something about the current safety car rule. Maybe let them filter their ranks alittle bit so as not to be impeded on the restart.
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      09-26-2011, 09:39 AM   #77
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A few things, first off a near incident isn't an incident at all. Looking at how Hamilton ran out of time later in the session for another go at a lap, I'd say his rush earlier was justified.

There is also a difference between getting on the radio, and physically/publicly expressing your displeasure. While you likened Massa's action to Hamilton post-race Monaco, they aren't even remotely the same incident. Hamilton joked in poor taste about the Steward's intentions, and Massa let his frustration turn into a physical altercation.

I'll agree that Singapore was vastely better than Valencia, I enjoyed this race. I'll also say that Vettel has to be the most hidden winner of all time. He only had like 2 spots of TV coverage the entire race. I almost forget he was even in it still.

Off that last point I'd like to divert alittle bit. I think instead of 107% they need to bump it to 105%. HRT, Virgin, and even Lotus don't belong out there yet. (Though kudos to Lotus for putting forth the best effort.) However, Trulli prevented Button even remotely challenging Vettel after the safety car release by holding up the field and Vettel sped off. Button was stuck 3 cars back, watching the chance at a win literally fly away. They might need to do something about the current safety car rule. Maybe let them filter their ranks alittle bit so as not to be impeded on the restart.
Trying not to crucify Massa too much in this incident. This is not the first time he took it up to the driver and sarcastically mocking the opponent "good job".

Everyone remember European GP (Nurburgring 2007) when he had a bit tangle with Fernando Alonso? He pretty much reacted the same way like a teenager.

Ok, back in 2007 there wasn't much room to cool down since he was on the podium. But this time at Singapore he had a lot of time to reflect what happened and cool himself down, THEN talk to Hamilton.

If two drivers are unable to cool down afterwards, they can't discuss what happened and clear the air at all. Your adrenaline is still pumping and affects your decision.

Speaking the slower three teams, anyone notice the HRT was already being lapped by Seb in the first 5-6 laps. That means in race pace, they're off about 18 seconds a lap. Unless they spent a pit stop to fix first lap collision, which I might missed out.
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      09-26-2011, 10:14 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post

Speaking the slower three teams, anyone notice the HRT was already being lapped by Seb in the first 5-6 laps. That means in race pace, they're off about 18 seconds a lap. Unless they spent a pit stop to fix first lap collision, which I might missed out.
I was going to mention that. They showed Vettel on the start finish stright between laps 4 and 5 and he was lapping an HRT into turn 1.

And I dont recall a collision, only Rosberg being forced to cut the corner.

So 4 laps almost exactly to being lapped. Why do they even bother going out?



And has anyone else noticed how sloppy McLaren is getting? It was a bit bad earlier in the season (Button DNFing at Silverstone comes to mind) but what happened to them in Singapore?

Buttton's car wouldnt go into reverse, Hamilton's fueling issues, etc...
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      09-26-2011, 11:13 AM   #79
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Off that last point I'd like to divert alittle bit. I think instead of 107% they need to bump it to 105%. HRT, Virgin, and even Lotus don't belong out there yet. (Though kudos to Lotus for putting forth the best effort.) However, Trulli prevented Button even remotely challenging Vettel after the safety car release by holding up the field and Vettel sped off. Button was stuck 3 cars back, watching the chance at a win literally fly away. They might need to do something about the current safety car rule. Maybe let them filter their ranks alittle bit so as not to be impeded on the restart.
I agree about HRT and Virgin, but not Lotus. Let's not forget that Kovalainen finished ahead of Petrov, and Trulli was ahead of Kovalainen until he had some problem. Their pace is improving, and I think it would be great if they can move up a bit more and regularly duke it out with STR, Renault, Williams, etc, even in qualifying.

As far as Button, let's face it - there was no way he would actually catch Vettel, who was clearly cruising at that point. Horner admitted himself that Vettel had been told to save fuel and ease the revs at the end. That being said, I thought Button did a great job, and he's turning in some surprisingly consistent, strong performances this season. I have definitely been impressed with how he has refused to be subordinate to Hamilton- I definitely rate him as the 'best of the rest' (outside of the Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel triad).

And you're right about Vettel. Reminds me of some of the dominant years with Schumacher - there were races where you saw him at the start, taking his pit stop, and then crossing the finish line, and that was it! It just shows how well he has seized the opportunity.
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      09-26-2011, 11:18 AM   #80
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I was going to mention that. They showed Vettel on the start finish stright between laps 4 and 5 and he was lapping an HRT into turn 1.

And I dont recall a collision, only Rosberg being forced to cut the corner.

So 4 laps almost exactly to being lapped. Why do they even bother going out?



And has anyone else noticed how sloppy McLaren is getting? It was a bit bad earlier in the season (Button DNFing at Silverstone comes to mind) but what happened to them in Singapore?

Buttton's car wouldnt go into reverse, Hamilton's fueling issues, etc...

IMO, Mclaren have ALWAYS been a bit erratic. Remember how often Kimi's engine would blow up in 2005? Hakkinen's spectacular car failures during the Hakkinen-Schumacher era? If anything, 2008 and 2010 were a bit of an oddity, with surprising reliability and strategic moves.

They have always traditionally pushed their engineering to the extreme, for everything from strategy to engine design to aerodynamic bits. The result is that things can go wrong more often than some of the other teams. The only other team with a worse reputation for reliability is Ferrari (pre-Schumacher/Ross Brawn era).
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      09-26-2011, 11:19 AM   #81
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And you're right about Vettel. Reminds me of some of the dominant years with Schumacher - there were races where you saw him at the start, taking his pit stop, and then crossing the finish line, and that was it! It just shows how well he has seized the opportunity.
Fantastic season for Vettel!!!
Back in 2007 when he sit in for Kubica in US GP, who knew the temporarily BMW driver who scored points in his first race would become the youngest two time world champ.

I just re-watched the 2007 season review, SV had a bit contact with Webbo in his first race already...hinting something?
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      09-26-2011, 11:20 AM   #82
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Speaking the slower three teams, anyone notice the HRT was already being lapped by Seb in the first 5-6 laps. That means in race pace, they're off about 18 seconds a lap. Unless they spent a pit stop to fix first lap collision, which I might missed out.
Mate, HRT should be banned and removed from the series. Their pace is absolutely soul-crushingly pathetic. Heck, just give them two GP2 cars - at least that would be more reliable and quicker.
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      09-26-2011, 11:24 AM   #83
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Mate, HRT should be banned and removed from the series. Their pace is absolutely soul-crushingly pathetic. Heck, just give them two GP2 cars - at least that would be more reliable and quicker.
Sometimes I feel bad for them, its not like they've been being lazy.
But I tried to take HRT in F1 2011 game, its a crappy car. I had to restart the career with Williams, probably should've take Force India.

I think we wouldn't be too critical if they really show progress in grid position and lap times to match Lotus and sometimes with Williams and STR...
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      09-26-2011, 11:35 AM   #84
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iirc, the HRT had a problem at the start of the race and had to pit after the first lap
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      09-26-2011, 11:58 AM   #85
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iirc, the HRT had a problem at the start of the race and had to pit after the first lap
That's what I suspect, otherwise 18 secs a lap is horrible.

I think I've seen the HRT was driving very slow and followed by the medical car on the first lap. That would explain why the HRT being lapped in 5-6 laps.
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      09-26-2011, 02:21 PM   #86
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As far as Button, let's face it - there was no way he would actually catch Vettel, who was clearly cruising at that point. Horner admitted himself that Vettel had been told to save fuel and ease the revs at the end. That being said, I thought Button did a great job, and he's turning in some surprisingly consistent, strong performances this season. I have definitely been impressed with how he has refused to be subordinate to Hamilton- I definitely rate him as the 'best of the rest' (outside of the Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel triad).
When the Safety car came in and the race restarted I definitely don't think that Vettel was in cruise mode there. Maybe shortly thereafter because he got such a rocket getaway from a napping Trulli, but not for a few laps. Safety car restarts are generally race resets. Anything can happen.
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      09-26-2011, 02:29 PM   #87
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I still feel as though Hamilton is the best driver in F1, partially because he is the biggest risk taker. It seems there are a lot of times when he pulls identical moves such as shooting up the inside of someone in the beginning of a turn with a late-braking maneuver, often he pulls this off because others leave him some room, but when they dont, Hamilton gets blames because he "crosses into their racing line". Seems like plain and fair racing to me. Not to say he hasn't made a few mistakes this season, but I think a lot of his poor results and accidents has plenty to do with the other driver involved's reaction to him.
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      09-26-2011, 08:25 PM   #88
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It just amazes me how Vettel avoids all trouble and never runs into any problems... I guess maybe it's easy when you're always in the lead but even when he's lapping slow traffic he never has any close calls.
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