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      09-14-2011, 12:00 PM   #1
MR///M3
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* 20" ADV.1 ADV10 TrakFunctions - Weights Inside! *

Hey Guys,
Last week I posted up pics of my new wheels, but many of you wanted weights. I was pleasantly surprised with their weights actually. The sizes again are 20"x9" fronts and 20"x11" rears.

ADV.1 offers many track weight lightening packages that would further reduce the weights of these wheels (my wheels have none of these). They are:
  • Titanium fasteners -- saves 0.35 lbs per wheel
  • Spoke Pocketing -- saves 0.4 lb per wheel
  • Back Pad pocketing -- saves 1 lb per wheel
  • Titanium center caps -- they weigh 0.09 lbs, maybe you get a 0.1 lb weight reduction from them
  • Titanium Lug nuts -- saves 0.35 pounds per wheel (titanium bolts weigh 1.84 lbs and steel ones weigh 3.24 lbs)
For reference: http://www.adv1wheels.com/adv1wheels.../finishing.php
So if one was to add all the options, they could save around 2.2 lbs PER WHEEL.


On to my wheels... The fronts were surprisingly heavier than the rears, but upon closer inspection the backpad of the front wheels must have been at least an inch to 2 inches thicker. As a weight comparison: My 11" rears are 0.5 pounds lighter than 10" wide BBS LM's and they are lighter than ZCP rear wheels by 0.3 lbs even though they are 1" wider and 1" taller. In the end, they aren't the LIGHTEST wheels out there, but if one was to add all the race lightening packages, they would be lighter than pretty much any 3pc 20" wheel out there. I believe my findings show how ADV.1's aren't as heavy as people think.

Pictures - - - > (remember these are weights WITH the centercaps)
Front wheel:


What made the fronts heavier:



Rear wheel:


What an 11" wide wheel looks like:



Thanks for looking,
Matt
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Last edited by MR///M3; 09-15-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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      09-14-2011, 12:11 PM   #2
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Beautiful wheels!
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      09-14-2011, 12:13 PM   #3
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Love the wheels, sick
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      09-14-2011, 12:17 PM   #4
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Mount them up!
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      09-14-2011, 12:23 PM   #5
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thanks guys!

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Originally Posted by Bart@AUTOcouture View Post
Mount them up!
I can't , my car is on a cargo ship somewhere off the coast of england. I won't be getting it for a while still.
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      09-14-2011, 05:27 PM   #6
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very nice! and thanks for the quick write up.
those weigh around the same as my 19x9.5
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      09-14-2011, 05:56 PM   #7
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What a tease. We need some better phootos!
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      09-15-2011, 10:39 AM   #8
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Matt - thanks for posting this up!!!
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      09-15-2011, 10:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catch View Post
very nice! and thanks for the quick write up.
those weigh around the same as my 19x9.5
No problem. I was pleasantly surprised how light they actually were because everyone complains about Adv.1's weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean@PYSpeed.com View Post
What a tease. We need some better phootos!
lol I know, I know... I'm trying to save the good photos for when I get my car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADV.1 Matt View Post
Matt - thanks for posting this up!!!
No problem Matt! Hopefully people will get it out of their heads that Adv.1's are boat anchors lol
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      09-15-2011, 06:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR///M3 View Post
Hey Guys,
Last week I posted up pics of my new wheels, but many of you wanted weights. I was pleasantly surprised with their weights actually. The sizes again are 20"x9" fronts and 20"x11" rears.

ADV.1 offers many track weight lightening packages that would further reduce the weights of these wheels (my wheels have none of these). They are:
  • Titanium fasteners -- saves 1.3 lbs per wheel
  • Spoke Pocketing -- saves 1 lb per wheel
  • Back Pad pocketing -- saves 1 lb per wheel
  • Titanium center caps -- they weigh 0.9 lbs each which means the ones I have, have to be over a pound alone (they are solid aluminum and pretty thick).
For reference: http://www.adv1wheels.com/adv1wheels.../finishing.php
So if one was to add all the options, they could save around 3.5 lbs PER WHEEL.


On to my wheels... The fronts were surprisingly heavier than the rears, but upon closer inspection the backpad of the front wheels must have been at least an inch to 2 inches thicker. As a weight comparison: My 11" rears are 0.5 pounds lighter than 10" wide BBS LM's and they are lighter than ZCP rear wheels by 0.3 lbs even though they are 1" wider and 1" taller. In the end, they aren't the LIGHTEST wheels out there, but if one was to add all the race lightening packages, they would be lighter than pretty much any 3pc 20" wheel out there. I believe my findings show how ADV.1's aren't as heavy as people think.

Thanks for looking,
Matt
There are a few things we need to clarify:

1. Titanium fasteners do NOT save 1.3 lbs per wheel.




A standard stainless steel fastener weights in at approx. 13 grams each. A standard wheel will require 40 fasteners at 13 grams each for a total of 520 grams or 1.14 pounds. Even if the amount of fasteners is reduced, you`ll have to use no fasteners to achieve the claimed 1.3lbs reduction per wheel.

Density Stainless Steel = 7.85 grams/cm3
Density Titanium of 4.507 grams/cm3

Volume Stainless Steel Fastener = m / D = 13 grams / 7.85 g/cm3 = 1.65 cm3
Mass Titanium Fastener = V * D = 1.65 cm3 * 4.507 g/cm3 = 7.45 grams

At an estimated 7.45g per Ti Fasteners and using a standard of 40 fasteners per wheel, you are at 298 grams or .65 lbs. 1.14 lbs - .65 lbs = .49 lbs per wheel.

Using less fasteners (32/34/36) configuration you are a max of 238 grams or .52 lbs. So a savings of 1.14 - .52 = .62 per wheel.

Significant but not even remotely close to the imaginative claim of 1.3lbs per wheel.


2. Spoke Pocketing does NOT mean savings of 1.0lb per wheel.

Here is a picture to help understand what "pocketing" means.



The density of Aluminum 6061-T6 is approx. 0.098 lb/cm3.

V = Mass / Density

To achieve a mass of 1 pound:

V = 1 lb / 0.098 lb/cm3 = 10.20 cm3. That's a cube of roughly 1" on all sides.

That is a lot of material to machine out of the spokes. Only in a mesh configuration or a 5-spoke configuration can you see the real advantages of this. You can expect .2-.4lbs by machining the spokes of a wheel before you start running into issues.

3. Centercaps do NOT weight 1lb. Titanium Centercaps????



Titanium is a very exotic metal and very strong. Titanium is about 66% heavier than aluminum, but is about twice as strong. It's density is nearly double compared to Aluminum. Titanium density is 4.507 grams/cm3 and Aluminum is 2.70 grams/cm3. This means that a piece of Ti and Al of the same size, the Titanium one will actually be heavier. In order to take advantage of the Titanium properties you would have to make the piece with a thinner section area, by removing excess material or making it smaller (rarely done) since its yield strength is astronomical compared to Aluminum.

Since we are talking about a centercap that must fit an specific center bore, the Titanium cap will actually weight MORE than an aluminum counterpart.

For reference 1 lb = ~450 grams

A BMW centercap is approx. 2.62x2.62".125 ", after all the calculations, the volume, based on a cylinder, comes out to 11.03 cm3.

A centercap made out of Aluminum = 11.03 cm3 * 2.70 g/cm3 = 29.78 grams!

A centercap made out of Titanium (Same Volume) = 11.03 cm3 * 4.507 g/cm3 = 49.71 grams.

So Titanium centercaps are 70% heavier than the aluminum ones. Not sure why a company will offer Titanium centercaps as a weight savings alternative.
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      09-15-2011, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos@MORR View Post
There are a few things we need to clarify:

1. Titanium fasteners do NOT save 1.3 lbs per wheel.
2. Spoke Pocketing does NOT mean savings of 1.0lb per wheel.
3. Centercaps do NOT weight 1lb. Titanium Centercaps????
relax... I'm just going off of ADV.1's site, as you can see I'm no expert...

For the fasteners: I misunderstood 1.3 pounds was for all 4 wheels, so about 0.35 lbs per wheel is shed. My bad.

The centercaps: ADV.1's website has the titanium center caps weighing 0.9 lbs, but it may be a typo and it really is 0.09 lbs. One pound did seem a little off to me. But they can offer the titanium as weight saving if the titanium is much much thinner than the aluminum counterpart.

The spoke pocketing: Maybe the site is refering to 1.5 savings overall from spoke pocketing instead of per wheel.

I edited my original post... in the end, I was only off by 1.3 lbs per wheel... which if applied to my 20"x11" wheel, it would weigh 24.3 lbs which is pretty great for such a huge wheel
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Last edited by MR///M3; 09-15-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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      09-15-2011, 06:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR///M3 View Post
relax... I'm just going off of ADV.1's site, as you can see I'm no expert...

For the fasteners: I misunderstood 1.3 pounds was for all 4 wheels, so about 0.35 lbs per wheel is shed. My bad.

The centercaps: ADV.1's website has the titanium center caps weighing 0.9 lbs, but it may be a typo and it really is 0.09 lbs. One pound did seem a little off to me. But they can offer the titanium as weight saving if the titanium is much much thinner than the aluminum counterpart.

The spoke pocketing: Maybe the site is refering to 1.5 savings overall from spoke pocketing instead of per wheel.

I will edit my original post
It was not targeted at you. Just to make sure people are not misinformed.
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      09-15-2011, 07:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos@MORR View Post
It was not targeted at you. Just to make sure people are not misinformed.
Ok well thanks for your insight. It cleared things up for me too. ALSO, keep in mind that this isn't ADV.1's top of the line wheel (trackspecs), these are trakfunctions which are still $1,325 per wheel with a custom lip color (the brushed gunmetal) and no race lightening packages, but no where near the $2,000-$2,250 per wheel price of the trackspecs.
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      09-15-2011, 11:41 PM   #14
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decided to make a new account just for your m3? lol

cant wait to see your new ride! i love red cars!
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      09-16-2011, 09:41 AM   #15
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decided to make a new account just for your m3? lol

cant wait to see your new ride! i love red cars!
haha yea. I can't wait to get my car. I can't believe I ordered it almost 2 months ago and I still have over a month to wait until I take delivery.
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      09-16-2011, 12:46 PM   #16
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Mount That Sucker
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      09-16-2011, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Nice wheels...20's are not for me but not my car.

Where in central jersey are you from?
Yea I didnt think they were for me either, but I think step lips look best in 20's on M3's. My 335 had 19's and they were perfect for it, but the M3 somehow works better with a +1 wheel size. My next wheels will probably be 19" monoblocks once I get sick of these.

I actually live in Princeton.

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Mount That Sucker
I can't

I don't take delivery of my car for another month..
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      09-16-2011, 04:06 PM   #18
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Why would you get 20'' wheels for the track? Just wondering.
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      09-16-2011, 07:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmoooon View Post
Why would you get 20'' wheels for the track? Just wondering.
I never, ever stated that these would be for the track lol. I would never get 20's for the track. These are strictly a show/summer cruising wheel. There are a very select few wheels that I'd get for the track (HRE R43/R40, Volk TE37sl, Advan RZ-DF, Advan TC-III, and a few more) and all of them would be in 18" fitment. But a 20" step lip is the way to go for a street/summer cruising application IMO. Hopefully by next fall I'll get me a set of track wheels and hopefully my OEM ZCP wheels will run out of tread so I can throw winters on them and I'll have my perfect wheel collection
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      09-17-2011, 09:02 PM   #20
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those are some very nice looking wheels!! too bad montreal's roads will absolutely rape the 20" wheels.... we have way too many potholes here.
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      09-18-2011, 08:55 PM   #21
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i love them. what suspension u planning on and performance mods?
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      09-29-2011, 04:31 PM   #22
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i love them. what suspension u planning on and performance mods?
RD springs with e36 M3 bumpstops for the suspension because I don't want to get rid of the ZCP EDC. And for performance mods, for now I just have the AA green filter and the Innotech F1 Evolution exhaust. Pulley's aren't worth 5-10 hp to me nor is a plastic charge pipe that vendors charge ridiculous money for. In the future I may be getting a ESS VT-1 535 kit. We'll see though.
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