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      09-13-2011, 07:34 PM   #1
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Post Vishnu Tuning Step-by-Step DYNO results (Procede+PWM Meth+Cat Deletes)

Hi guys,
Quite a bit of tuning data here so just bear with me. I'll try to provide the info as clearly as possible. But if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

As of right now, our Procede can control PWM Methanol injection, change AFR target and change ignition timing set points. All tunable "on-the-fly" mapswitching/tuning (ie, not requiring DME flashing/resetting or ignition cycling.) This gave us the ability to make incremental changes to the tune and see how the engine reacted on the dyno. Lot of dyno runs over the last two days (74 runs in all). Both with an essentially stock car (just Vanguard muffler section) and then again (the next day) with primary and secondary cat-deletes ($100 muffler shop special).

Test car is an early production 2008 E92 6MT with 60k miles on the clock. The only mod prior to testing is a Vanguard muffler section and big wheels (19" Linea Corsa rims with 295mm wide tires). All runs tested in 4th gear on a 3rd party Dynojet (DNR Racing in Hayward CA) in Power/M mode. Numbers are actual/uncorrected values (CR=1.00). Ambient temps for both dyno sessions were 75-86 deg F) with 34-45% Humidity. Fuel used was 91oct Unocal/76 which is the best quality fuel we can find at the pump here in CA.

Just an upgraded Vanguard muffler section. Still running stock X-pipe, cats, midpipe, etc,.:


3rd Party Dynojet (DNR Performance in Hayward CA):


DAY ONE
Yesterday, our goal was to establish a solid and repeatable baseline (we threw out the lowest outlines). And then to enable the Procede tune and PWM Meth system. At this time, all the Procede did was meter methanol spray and adjust ignition advance as a function of measured methanol flow. No changes were made to AFR targeting. In the end, we came up with these results:



Analysis
Properly metering methanol as a function of Throttle angle and Airflow was key to keeping the DME happy and code free. If methanol is injected like an on/off switch, the DME will trigger various fuel control codes. Caused by having to react to big AFR swings at meth spray onset. So by injecting progressively (via Aquamist PWM valve), the DME sees no such plausibility issues. The extra meth naturally provides a big cooling advantage, dropping measured inlet air temps (IATs) by approx 20 deg C (35 deg F)! Just spraying meth alone picked up approx 10whp at high RPM (not shown). But that is only part of the story. Methanol also increases octane much like running race fuel. This allowed us to run 4-6 degrees more ignition advance, getting us right to the point of maximum thermal efficiency or Min Advance for Best Torque (MBT for short). This is where every engine "wants" to run. However, real world constraints (temp and octane) usually prevent this. This is why a stock "420bhp" m3 doesn't really make 420whp on the road. It also explains why stock baseline dynos, from car-to-car/condition-to-condition/octane-to-octane can vary from 320whp to 350whp. Methanol allows us to "tune" the environment which, in turn, allows us to tune the engine the way it wants to be tuned for maximum. And do it more safely than just trying to tune conventionally (ie, making the tune more aggressive without running meth or race gas, etc,.). So, at the end of the first day, running methanol and the extra ignition advance gave us not only big power gains, but also made the power perfectly consistent and 100% immune to heat soak. Which means that power gains in worse conditions will be every greater. But even in these temperate conditions, we saw gains of:

~30WHP at 8000RPM
~27LB-FT at 3000RPM


Note
When running the stock tune on pump gas, we found a natural variance of +/- 5whp. But, at times it got much worse. This seems to happen when cylinder head and iat temps get extra high. It is also one of the runs we "threw out" as an outliner as it would lead to artificially inflated tuning gains. But it does clearly show how easy it is to get a low baseline if you dyno selectively:


DAY TWO
Today, we had two updates to the car and tune. First, we eliminated both primary and secondary cats. Stock X-pipe and resonators were retained. We used 2.5" crush bent aluminized steel piping that we fabricated at a local muffler shop. Nothing fancy. Cost us less than $100. I suspect using proper mandrel bends may be worth an extra hp or two.

We also got control of AFR targeting, giving the Procede to change factory AFR setpoints by +/- 3 points. This is a very wide adjustment range. AFR target changes are mapped via 3D table. RPM vs. Airflow (in kg/hour):


The first thing we did was quantify the gains we got from deleting both sets of cats while running the stock tune. Compared to yesterday's "no tune" baseline, todays "no-tune" baseline (with cat deletes) were good:



The next thing we did was to compare the stock tune (with the cat deletes) to various stages to Procede tuning. Without running methanol. It turns out that the reduction of exhaust back-pressure allowed us to be considerably more aggressive with the mapping.

First we simply enleaned AFR target (under heavy load) from 6500rpm and up. Basically increasing AFR from the mid 12:1s to high 12:1s. This is represented in the Red run below (Run 68) This got us gains of 6-13WHP between 6700 and 8000rpm. Next, we added 2 degrees of advance across the board (under load). This gave an additional 6-11WHP from 5700rpm to 8400. This is the Light Blue run below (Run 70). So through some admittedly pretty coarse tuning (and NO METH), we picked up a peak power gain of:

23WHP at 7500RPM

Stock tuning vs. Leaner up top vs. Leaner up top AND more ignition advance:


Finally, we enabled PWM methanol and spun up the dyno. Immediately, run to run variance dropped to within 1-2hp. Power curve smoothened out (less jagged). IATs dropped. The extra octane also allowed us to add a few degrees more ignition advance across the board. And after a few tuning runs, we saw this:

Procede tune vs. Procede Tune+Procede PWM Meth


Gains of 20-25WHP from 5500 to Redline. We actually saw a 45WHP gain at a high 8300rpm but that's not that useful so we can ignore that for the sake of reasonableness

SUMMARY
It's been a fun couple weeks playing with this car. Compared to the n55/n54 engines that we've been tuning since 2007, the s65 does present it's share of challenges. Namely the granularity needed to squeeze out gains in an NA application. It definitely needs more fine tuning since we are dealing with relatively small incremental gains each step of the way. But the initial results are promising and they should only get better with time.

But as it stands now, by adding the following:

Vishnu Procede and PWM Meth kit ($TBA)
Muffler Shop Primary Secondary Cat Deletes ($100)

We saw the following REALISTIC gains:

Stock vs Vishnu Tuned (Procede+PWM Meth+Cat Deletes)


*Gains of 20-45WHP over the ENTIRE useable power band.
*53LB-FT peak gains at 2900RPM
*Absolute resistance to heat-soak
*Lower fuel consumption (leaner AFR targets and additional advance)
*Better part throttle response (due to lower IATs and extra advance)
*And niftly in-dash gauges, shift lights, code reading/clearing functions, misc DME activations, mapswitching, user tune-ability (if inclined.. but not necessary)

And if you are used to naughty tuner tricks (ie, comparing final tuned results to a HEATSOAKED baseline) you get the following results:

LOW stock baseline vs. Vishnu tuned


This will be the last time we ever show an unreasonably low baseline dyno result. This was done for entertainment purposes only

Please let me know if you guys have any questions.

Cheers,
Shiv

PS. BIG THANKS to Zoeb at Wheeldude.com for letting us use his car for testing

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 09-13-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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      09-13-2011, 07:37 PM   #2
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A bunch of you M3 guys were formerly 135/335 owners so this info may be old news. But for those who aren't familiar with the Procede, here's what it offers as of today (SEPT 13, 2011). In the videos below, you will see everything demonstrated in a 335. I don't have the time nor inclinationto film all those videos again in the m3 when it works just the same

1) Real-time Map-Switching
This is done with your cruise control stalk. The map # selection is displayed on your tachometer momentarily upon mapswitch. You can toggle up and down between different maps while you are driving. There are currently 3 active maps. Map 0 is stock. Map 1 is tuned without meth. Map 4 is tuned with PWM Meth activated. Map 2 and 3 are undefined at this time. Video:


2) CANbus based Cat Code Suppression
Needed when running cat deletes. No need to get your DME flashed after going catless. Just activate the Procede's CANclear feature (in the user adjustable menu via laptop) and that's it.

3) Code Reading/Code Clearing
This is a very useful built-in feature. Code clearing does not require a laptop. No need to go to the dealership for code reading/clearing. Also no need to purchase any BMW specific diagnostic tool. Here's a video explaining this feature:
[u2b] xnRyFaqJYEY[/u2b]

4) Vishnu Command Center
This gives you access to several dealership level diagnostic/activation commands. Such as airbag code clearing, DME resetting, Individual module rests, etc,. Video:


5) In-Dash gauge displays
Temporarily convert you Fuel Level and Oil Temp gauges into secondary realtime display gauges. For the M3, you can select Airflow+AFR, Ignition Advance+AFR, Bank1 AFR+Bank2 AFR, etc,. More will be added once we know what people are looking for. Video:


6) Adjustable Shift Light
You can adjust the setting from 5000rpm to 9000rpm through the Command Center. For the m3, we don't have the activation command for the audible beep yet. So right now, all we do is turn on the turn on/flash the turn signals at the desired RPM. Video:


7) In-dash Methanol flow display
Very useful to know when your are running meth. Video:


8) Road speed delimiter

9) Datalogging
12-35 samples/sec. 10 channels log-able at a time. All you need is a laptop. The Procede has a built-in USB interface. A 6' USB cable is included. You can run this through your glovebox and into the DME box (where the Procede sits).

10) User Adjustability
While the Procede will come with pre-set maps that we carefully calibrate ourselves, it can be tuned by the end-user if they are so inclined. This is by no means necessary as the default maps will provide the advertised gains. It's just for those who are trying to eek out the last few hp or have an unusual assortment of modifications. All tuning is done through the Procede User Calibration Software which can be downloaded by clicking HERE. For now, the N54 version of the software will be used. For the most part, it's 99% applicable. Although you can ignore the boost and wastegate DC% tables for M3 applications

There will be more features added as we port over n54/n55 code to the m3 firmware. But I think we are off to a good start at this point in development.

Cheers,
Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 09-13-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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      09-13-2011, 07:37 PM   #3
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      09-13-2011, 07:43 PM   #4
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Excited to see the final results and pricing. Hopefully the meth kit will be a nice clean stealth install
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      09-13-2011, 07:52 PM   #5
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Very impressive for such a short period of time and it was great you shared so many details and did not try to push $5000 titanium exhausts as a necessity for a properly tuned car.

For many, 400 rwhp is the magic number. You are very close and perhaps with some other tuning mods like a better air filter system and an underdrive crank pulley and maybe one of the less expensive non-crush bend exhausts, that goal will be reached.
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      09-13-2011, 08:25 PM   #6
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I'm up for 3rd party testing.... :-)
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      09-13-2011, 08:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Very impressive for such a short period of time and it was great you shared so many details and did not try to push $5000 titanium exhausts as a necessity for a properly tuned car.

For many, 400 rwhp is the magic number. You are very close and perhaps with some other tuning mods like a better air filter system and an underdrive crank pulley and maybe one of the less expensive non-crush bend exhausts, that goal will be reached.
Thanks! We'll have an underdrive crank pulley ready to install on Thursday. If it can give us another 10-12whp, I think we will be golden
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      09-13-2011, 08:48 PM   #8
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Nice to see the features I was hoping for.
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      09-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #9
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Thanks for sharing this with us, Shiv. This was a very educational post depicting the effects of manipulating AFRs, Ignition Timing, and having good IATs. Although I've seen other tuners make very similar power with their setups, I think it's worth noting that Methanol can really make one achieve these gains consistently.

Great work Shiv! Please share more dynos with those pulleys and future modifications!
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      09-13-2011, 09:07 PM   #10
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      09-13-2011, 09:10 PM   #11
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LOVE THIS! Ran meth on my previous 335 and the results were amazing....didnt think there was much to gain from running it on the S65 N/A platform, but youve clearly shown otherwise.....
....anyways, what size nozzle are you using (M5)? Are you tapping the chargepipe or the actual intake plenum itself? Im really interested in getting this as my next mod..great job again
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      09-13-2011, 09:14 PM   #12
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quite interested in how this turns out. cheers
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      09-13-2011, 09:19 PM   #13
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looking good, can't wait to drive it and report back with my thoughts
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      09-13-2011, 09:24 PM   #14
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Very interesting post - thanks a lot for all the detail and transparency! Some really nice features in the procede. Also confirms that some tuners are probably leaning out the engine a bit to make power.
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      09-13-2011, 09:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Very interesting post - thanks a lot for all the detail and transparency! Some really nice features in the procede. Also confirms that some tuners are probably leaning out the engine a bit to make power.
Thanks. And yes, the tunes are leaning the fuel curve out a bit at high RPM. In the low end and midrange, they are probably enriching things a bit since it doesn't seem to result in any power loss and presumably provides a bit more knock suppression/timing stability. At least that is what I'm doing
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      09-13-2011, 09:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
LOVE THIS! Ran meth on my previous 335 and the results were amazing....didnt think there was much to gain from running it on the S65 N/A platform, but youve clearly shown otherwise.....
....anyways, what size nozzle are you using (M5)? Are you tapping the chargepipe or the actual intake plenum itself? Im really interested in getting this as my next mod..great job again
We are tapping into the bottom of the rubber "charge pipe" so you can't even see it. We are using two 1.0mm nozzles with a constant 180psi system pressure. Meth valve DC% ranges from 12 to 100% depending on engine load/rpm/throttle angle/IAT. At 100% DC, that's about 950cc/min or roughly 2 M5s run in a conventional PPS (variable pressure) meth system run at 200psi.
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      09-13-2011, 09:36 PM   #17
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Shiv, nice update!!!

I will give you a shout regarding a Procede+PWM meth kit setup for my G-power SKII supercharger setup. We already dicussed the issues......




Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
A bunch of you M3 guys were formerly 135/335 owners so this info may be old news. But for those who aren't familiar with the Procede, here's what it offers as of today (SEPT 13, 2011). In the videos below, you will see everything demonstrated in a 335. I don't have the time nor inclinationto film all those videos again in the m3 when it works just the same

1) Real-time Map-Switching
This is done with your cruise control stalk. The map # selection is displayed on your tachometer momentarily upon mapswitch. You can toggle up and down between different maps while you are driving. There are currently 3 active maps. Map 0 is stock. Map 1 is tuned without meth. Map 4 is tuned with PWM Meth activated. Map 2 and 3 are undefined at this time. Video:


2) CANbus based Cat Code Suppression
Needed when running cat deletes. No need to get your DME flashed after going catless. Just activate the Procede's CANclear feature (in the user adjustable menu via laptop) and that's it.

3) Code Reading/Code Clearing
This is a very useful built-in feature. Code clearing does not require a laptop. No need to go to the dealership for code reading/clearing. Also no need to purchase any BMW specific diagnostic tool. Here's a video explaining this feature:
[u2b] xnRyFaqJYEY[/u2b]

4) Vishnu Command Center
This gives you access to several dealership level diagnostic/activation commands. Such as airbag code clearing, DME resetting, Individual module rests, etc,. Video:


5) In-Dash gauge displays
Temporarily convert you Fuel Level and Oil Temp gauges into secondary realtime display gauges. For the M3, you can select Airflow+AFR, Ignition Advance+AFR, Bank1 AFR+Bank2 AFR, etc,. More will be added once we know what people are looking for. Video:


6) Adjustable Shift Light
You can adjust the setting from 5000rpm to 9000rpm through the Command Center. For the m3, we don't have the activation command for the audible beep yet. So right now, all we do is turn on the turn on/flash the turn signals at the desired RPM. Video:


7) In-dash Methanol flow display
Very useful to know when your are running meth. Video:


8) Road speed delimiter

9) Datalogging
12-35 samples/sec. 10 channels log-able at a time. All you need is a laptop. The Procede has a built-in USB interface. A 6' USB cable is included. You can run this through your glovebox and into the DME box (where the Procede sits).

10) User Adjustability
While the Procede will come with pre-set maps that we carefully calibrate ourselves, it can be tuned by the end-user if they are so inclined. This is by no means necessary as the default maps will provide the advertised gains. It's just for those who are trying to eek out the last few hp or have an unusual assortment of modifications. All tuning is done through the Procede User Calibration Software which can be downloaded by clicking HERE. For now, the N54 version of the software will be used. For the most part, it's 99% applicable. Although you can ignore the boost and wastegate DC% tables for M3 applications

There will be more features added as we port over n54/n55 code to the m3 firmware. But I think we are off to a good start at this point in development.

Cheers,
Shiv
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      09-13-2011, 09:41 PM   #18
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AWESOME!!!
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      09-13-2011, 10:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidle323 View Post
Shiv, nice update!!!

I will give you a shout regarding a Procede+PWM meth kit setup for my G-power SKII supercharger setup. We already dicussed the issues......
Sounds good. I think you SC'd guys will really appreciate a good meth system with adjustable tuning/mapping.
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      09-13-2011, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Very impressive for such a short period of time and it was great you shared so many details and did not try to push $5000 titanium exhausts as a necessity for a properly tuned car.

For many, 400 rwhp is the magic number. You are very close and perhaps with some other tuning mods like a better air filter system and an underdrive crank pulley and maybe one of the less expensive non-crush bend exhausts, that goal will be reached.
I think the ability to use 93 octane gas for those of us here on the East Coast will, with a non-charcoal air filter, absolutely get us above the 400 whp mark. It seems like the 91 octane fuel really restricts the s65 based on dyno's that we've seen from PG and others.
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      09-13-2011, 11:02 PM   #21
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Thank you for being very open with your information and testing/tuning methodology.
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      09-13-2011, 11:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMattB View Post
I think the ability to use 93 octane gas for those of us here on the East Coast will, with a non-charcoal air filter, absolutely get us above the 400 whp mark. It seems like the 91 octane fuel really restricts the s65 based on dyno's that we've seen from PG and others.
I looked in the dynojet dyno database. Have any non-stroker, non-supercharged S65 made over 400whp on a dynojet? If so, what mods did they use. Just curious...

cheers,
shiv
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