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      09-15-2011, 06:34 PM   #67
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Not argumentative. They aren't listed in the DD.

That's an old entry of John circa 2008. The 400+ was full cat delete, pulley and more tuning. But they are out there on the forums if you dig. Mostly due to an older bad relationship with DD owner/moderator doesn't care for the tuner who did those results. Benvo did 411 with his car on a DJ but it's questionable at best.

Either way would love to see what a balls out full bolt on meth car would do with the Procede.

Problem is: While the procede is a very neat product (I'm an ex n54 guy) alot of us can't justify it on top as most are happy with the full flash tunes and 93 octane, that change torque tables/targetting, vanos inlet/outlet, dbw, M settings, DCT tuning and much much more. To those people where the meth kit may add ~10-15whp it will be a hefty price for procede + meth. Perhaps a standalone product that watches the meth flow and adjusting of set point timing advance on top of the dme tune would be great.

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      09-15-2011, 07:33 PM   #68
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Not argumentative. They aren't listed in the DD.

That's an old entry of John circa 2008. The 400+ was full cat delete, pulley and more tuning. But they are out there on the forums if you dig. Mostly due to an older bad relationship with DD owner/moderator doesn't care for the tuner who did those results. Benvo did 411 with his car on a DJ but it's questionable at best.

Either way would love to see what a balls out full bolt on meth car would do with the Procede.

Problem is: While the procede is a very neat product (I'm an ex n54 guy) alot of us can't justify it on top as most are happy with the full flash tunes and 93 octane, that change torque tables/targetting, vanos inlet/outlet, dbw, M settings, DCT tuning and much much more. To those people where the meth kit may add ~10-15whp it will be a hefty price for procede + meth. Perhaps a standalone product that watches the meth flow and adjusting of set point timing advance on top of the dme tune would be great.
Putting a Procede/meth kit on top of a well tuned car running 93oct should be worth another 10-20hp on the dyno due to IAT cooling effects alone. And considerably more in the real world where heat soak plays a big factor. And it would also provide a level of knock suppression/consistency that one could only otherwise get when running race gas. Whether that is worth the price of admission will depend on the person who has to make the decision. I'm just providing an option for safe and consistent power that was otherwise unavailable unless one always runs 100oct in 30-40F conditions. Either way, it provides a lot more bang than a similar priced exhaust system. Let alone one that costs $4000 and up.

The idea of a standalone produce did cross my mind. But trying to cut a few hundred dollars off the price of the control box didn't make much sense in the end. Especially when it can save a person from spending $900 on a flash AND still have all the extra functionality and added i/o to control a fully mappable meth system. And actually be custom tunable by the end user.

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      09-16-2011, 12:03 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT
That's an old entry of John circa 2008. The 400+ was full cat delete, pulley and more tuning. But they are out there on the forums if you dig. Mostly due to an older bad relationship with DD owner/moderator doesn't care for the tuner who did those results. Benvo did 411 with his car on a DJ but it's questionable at best.
I got this response directly from PG...

All entries that are sent my way go into the Dyno DB. Nobody is kept out due to vendor choice. Entries that don't appear in the Dyno DB are usually those I missed, or dyno's that appear at site(s) that I don't patronize or check very often.

Recently, I was out of town for many weeks. Many really good dyno's showed up during that time and I still haven't put them in the Dyno DB. So basically I'm behind at the moment but will eventually get caught up and get all of those entries input.

BTW, M3DCTM3, if you are aware of any dyno's I've missed or you'd like to see in the DynoDB, please send them my way with all of the usual stuff I need (mods list, 6MT/DCT, and fuel).

Thanks, PG.
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      09-18-2011, 02:23 AM   #70
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Hey Shiv, awesome work there! Is there any change the Procede will be able to increase the rev-limiter a couple hundred rpm?
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      09-18-2011, 02:26 AM   #71
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any foreseeable reliability issues?
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      09-18-2011, 02:39 AM   #72
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Hey Shiv, awesome work there! Is there any change the Procede will be able to increase the rev-limiter a couple hundred rpm?
Hey there... haven't seen your posts in a while! No plans, in the near future at least, to raise the rev limiter. That would take reworking of the DME code which we can certainly do via mail (or drive-in). But I'd rather just stick to addressing the fundamental tune issues first. I think 8400rpm is plenty as is. Extra revs have always made me a bit nervous as it opens up a few cans of worms (crankshaft harmonics, lubrication issues, piston speed limits, etc,.) I know many have not had issues but unless there is a big return from the extra revs, I'll stay away from it.

GewoW-- No reliability issue to speak of. This is one of the nice things about improving operating conditions (high octane and low IAT) first and only then making the tune more aggressive. Rather than just making the tune more aggressive and hoping that conditions never get *too* bad.
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      09-18-2011, 10:38 PM   #73
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      09-18-2011, 10:43 PM   #74
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Oh my. Already running Procede on the 335i. Can't wait for the release. Very interested in the pricing. This seems like the perfect solution for going from 93 OCT in the east to now having to run 91 OCT in the hotter and higher elevation of El Paso. Awesome!
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      09-18-2011, 11:44 PM   #75
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pricing coming soon ??
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      09-19-2011, 08:30 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
Not argumentative. They aren't listed in the DD.

That's an old entry of John circa 2008. The 400+ was full cat delete, pulley and more tuning. But they are out there on the forums if you dig. Mostly due to an older bad relationship with DD owner/moderator doesn't care for the tuner who did those results. Benvo did 411 with his car on a DJ but it's questionable at best.

Either way would love to see what a balls out full bolt on meth car would do with the Procede.

Problem is: While the procede is a very neat product (I'm an ex n54 guy) alot of us can't justify it on top as most are happy with the full flash tunes and 93 octane, that change torque tables/targetting, vanos inlet/outlet, dbw, M settings, DCT tuning and much much more. To those people where the meth kit may add ~10-15whp it will be a hefty price for procede + meth. Perhaps a standalone product that watches the meth flow and adjusting of set point timing advance on top of the dme tune would be great.
Obviously, whatever 400+ rwhp NA cars exist are outliers and that calls into question whether they really make 400+ rwhp. Even if they get it once, under ideal conditions, is it repeatable? Seems like these cars need race gas to make that sort of power and while you can run it, race gas is very expensive compared to meth that flows only when needed.

Obviously, if you are happy with whatever you have now, you don`t need any more mods. However, I love the way Vishnu has take some very simple and inexpensive mods like crush bent exhausts and made as much power as many people who have spent ten times as much. The octane seems more the key than the tune.
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      09-19-2011, 01:21 PM   #77
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Ok, so I got my car back from Shiv on Friday and been driving it all weekend and I am extremely pleased with the results.

Even on a hot day with 80*+ temps the car runs great and feels strong all the way up to redline.

Definitely can feel the power difference on the "butt dyno"

Match switching and all procede functions work great and pretty much the same as the 335i Procede.

All the way from 3,000rpm to redline power keeps coming and you can definitely tell the difference from stock....I've come to a complete stop and just opened it up all the way from 1st through 3rd and it's STRONG.

The only thing I disliked about the M3 when I switched from my 335i (procede, downpipes, bigger FMIC, LSD, exhaust, KW V3) was the power that the M3 was missing. After this, I think the M3 is perfect now.

I just got it back, so I'll have a lot more to say in the long term I'm sure, but so far, I am extremely satisfied and can't wait to leave the office so I can drive the car again
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      09-19-2011, 05:06 PM   #78
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If I am understanding correctly this would allow for similar timing/knock suppression as running 96 plus octane? I understand race gas plus this would yield even more but since I am mixing race gas right now to get 95 octane, would this be able to replace the need for that and keep the same performance?
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      09-19-2011, 05:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Obviously, whatever 400+ rwhp NA cars exist are outliers and that calls into question whether they really make 400+ rwhp. Even if they get it once, under ideal conditions, is it repeatable? Seems like these cars need race gas to make that sort of power and while you can run it, race gas is very expensive compared to meth that flows only when needed.

Obviously, if you are happy with whatever you have now, you don`t need any more mods. However, I love the way Vishnu has take some very simple and inexpensive mods like crush bent exhausts and made as much power as many people who have spent ten times as much. The octane seems more the key than the tune.
Not really, they just need 93 octane and proper tuning of all performance tables (Vanos included). I have over 20+ >400whp runs. and Probably 60 total on the course of my car. In fact this is over a year ago and had another m3 make more since then. Both of us are catted too. Baselined at 342whp, and his at 343whp. Google 407.7whp M3(which was done on stock x pipe with only primaries removed) or 411whp M3 record, documented on Youtube as well.

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=296.

We don't have race gas here in MA, never have never will - and our 93 is enough.

Last edited by M3DCTBT; 09-19-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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      09-19-2011, 05:33 PM   #80
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Not really, they just need 93 octane and proper tuning of all performance tables (Vanos included). I have over 20+ >400whp runs. and Probably 60 total on the course of my car. In fact this is over a year ago and had another m3 make more since then. Both of us are catted too. Baselined at 342whp, and his at 343whp. Google 407.7whp M3(which was done on stock x pipe with only primaries removed) or 411whp M3 record, documented on Youtube as well.

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=296.

We don't have race gas here in MA, never have never will - and our 93 is enough.
Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you are making the assumption that Dynapack runs are nominally comparable to Dynojet runs. They aren't in my experience. Any time you compare an inertial dyno to a load bearing dyno are you are going to see variance. Comparing results from two types of dynos is a no-no imho.
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      09-19-2011, 05:35 PM   #81
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If I am understanding correctly this would allow for similar timing/knock suppression as running 96 plus octane? I understand race gas plus this would yield even more but since I am mixing race gas right now to get 95 octane, would this be able to replace the need for that and keep the same performance?
Octane will largely depend on how much methanol is injected in relation to total fuel consumption. In our application, effective octane will probably be quite a bit higher than 96oct. And on top of that, there is a big volumetric efficiency bump caused by the intake air temp reduction that methanol provides when it vaporizes. Something that you don't get with race gas. So the octane is only half of the picture.
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      09-19-2011, 05:39 PM   #82
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So boiling it down to sheer horsepower output. 91 octane with your system would put out more hp than 96 octane with no system. Both under same conditions etc?
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      09-19-2011, 05:47 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you are making the assumption that Dynapack runs are nominally comparable to Dynojet runs. They aren't in my experience. Any time you compare an inertial dyno to a load bearing dyno are you are going to see variance. Comparing results from two types of dynos is a no-no imho.
This isn't a cali Church DP on flywheel correction mode.

A 411whp catted 93 oct M3 that baselined identical to your 91 car won't make near 400~ on a DJ? I disagree. We have one here a bit far away I'm sure we can do a comparo.
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      09-19-2011, 07:07 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by M3DCTBT View Post
Not really, they just need 93 octane and proper tuning of all performance tables (Vanos included). I have over 20+ >400whp runs. and Probably 60 total on the course of my car. In fact this is over a year ago and had another m3 make more since then. Both of us are catted too. Baselined at 342whp, and his at 343whp. Google 407.7whp M3(which was done on stock x pipe with only primaries removed) or 411whp M3 record, documented on Youtube as well.

http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=296.

We don't have race gas here in MA, never have never will - and our 93 is enough.
This is the OE Tuning tuned car that I referenced earlier -- the only NA M3 that I have ever read of making over 400 rwhp and it reportedly makes 408 rwhp.
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      09-19-2011, 07:44 PM   #85
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This is the OE Tuning tuned car that I referenced earlier -- the only NA M3 that I have ever read of making over 400 rwhp and it reportedly makes 408 rwhp.
The 408whp car is mine.

The 411whp is another with the same mods (but akra rear section). In fact both of them are an hour from you if you would like to come and see for yourself or go for a ride
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      09-19-2011, 07:57 PM   #86
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The 408whp car is mine.

The 411whp is another with the same mods (but akra rear section). In fact both of them are an hour from you if you would like to come and see for yourself or go for a ride
Impressing Shiv with 400whp will be tough
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      09-19-2011, 08:07 PM   #87
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Impressing Shiv with 400whp will be tough
Quoted for truth.....need a 500whp n/a M3 to make my pants tight
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      09-22-2011, 08:21 PM   #88
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So can we run 87 octane plus meth? Just curious how that would work?
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