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      07-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #1
TampaBlueE90
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M3 Convertible Questions?

Do the rear seats fold?
Can you fit golf clubs in trunk/car?
How is wind noise with the top up/down?
How is the visibility out the rear?

I have an E90, thinking about getting a convertible...any advice?
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      07-20-2011, 11:47 AM   #2
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Do the rear seats fold? Yes and no. The rear cover folds down, but there's not access to the trunk

Can you fit golf clubs in trunk/car? I assume so? I don't golf

How is wind noise with the top up/down? if you have the wind deflector, even at 80mph on the freeway you're good to go

How is the visibility out the rear? Great. better overall visibility than a Coupe IMO (since lack of B pillar)
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      07-20-2011, 11:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaBlueE90 View Post
Do the rear seats fold?
Can you fit golf clubs in trunk/car?
How is wind noise with the top up/down?
How is the visibility out the rear?

I have an E90, thinking about getting a convertible...any advice?
I highly recommend a visit to your BMW dealer and a test drive will answer all your questions first hand then you do know this of course.
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      07-20-2011, 12:39 PM   #4
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test drive it
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      07-20-2011, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaBlueE90 View Post
Do the rear seats fold?
Can you fit golf clubs in trunk/car?
How is wind noise with the top up/down?
How is the visibility out the rear?

I have an E90, thinking about getting a convertible...any advice?
The seats fold with no access
The golf clubs will fit but you need to have the pass through with Cargo Bag
Wind noise top up no issues, top down get the wind deflector and no issues
Visibility out the back is fine.

Take one for a ride first, she will be heavier than the coupe (I like the vert) so I was willing to add a few pounds for it and there is nothing like hearing that engine and that exhaust note with the top down.
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      07-20-2011, 03:01 PM   #6
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what do you mean the seats fold with no access? if it folds don't you get access?
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      07-20-2011, 03:24 PM   #7
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what do you mean the seats fold with no access? if it folds don't you get access?
Most cars with folding seats provide a large opening between the trunk and cabin but the E93 doesn't work the same. A large panel (basically the back cushion) folds down to provide a flat deck for luggage but it leaves a solid bulkhead. It's solid unless you get the pass-through option where there is a tunnel large enough for a golf bag to poke through. It's basically just a glorified version of the smaller pass through available on the coupe and sedan. I don't golf so haven't tried it but they claim you can put two golf bags in the trunk as long as one extends through the passthrough. Regardless, I have to assume you would not have much success if you have one of the very large bags.

Regarding visibility out the back, it's not as good as the coupe. Yes, you don't have B-pillars so your sides are clearer but the headrests are taller than the coupe (for roll-over protection) and the back window itself is smaller.
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      07-20-2011, 03:43 PM   #8
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Rear seat folds but you need the ski boot option to have acess to the trunk.

I,m a golfer.....with the top up you can fit a carry bag in the trunk, but not a large pro style bag. With the top down you can put them in the back seat. If you have a passenger with you I don't know if 2 sets would fit. If your by yourself just tilt the passenger seat back and put them in the front seat.....much easier to get them in and out.

Get the wind deflector with that you could be doing 90 and not have a problem listening to music or carrying a conversation with your passenger.

Visibility is fine.

Unless your into racing the E93 is the best looking most enjoyable car of the 3
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      07-20-2011, 04:47 PM   #9
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Here is what I dont really understand with guys buying M3 verts. When you purchase (pay the price) for an M3, you are paying for the perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny to utilize that weight balance, you are paying for the perfect structure and rigidity, you are paying for the performance and handling. This is what you are paying for in an M3. You pay extra money over a 3 series to get these benefits.

THEN, you pay BMW extra money to cut off your roof and b piller, destroying the rigidity and structural firmness of the car, you pay extra to add a considerable amount of weight and throw off the perfect weight balance which the handling and performance is dependent on (also dependent on the structure that has now been tampered with), all for putting the roof down?

So here is the math... You pay a nice price for perfectly balanced performance car THEN you pay extra to tamper with that perfect balance.

I just dont get it. I dont mean this in ANY offensive way at all and I really hope it does not sound that way. Again, I just dont think I really get the concept.

EDIT: If I ever wanted a BMW vert, I would get a 328vert because obviously the performance does not matter as much as the joys of having the top down. Some might say "what if I want the power AND the top down?!" in that case I would suggest a 335 vert with a tune (which I would feel is still a bit of waste of money but can understanding someone wanting a powerful vert as a daily driver). But I can not understand a M3 vert.
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      07-20-2011, 07:00 PM   #10
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I wish you could drive my E93 and it would educate you more. 328 vs M3??
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      07-20-2011, 07:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Here is what I dont really understand with guys buying M3 verts. When you purchase (pay the price) for an M3, you are paying for the perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny to utilize that weight balance, you are paying for the perfect structure and rigidity, you are paying for the performance and handling. This is what you are paying for in an M3. You pay extra money over a 3 series to get these benefits.

THEN, you pay BMW extra money to cut off your roof and b piller, destroying the rigidity and structural firmness of the car, you pay extra to add a considerable amount of weight and throw off the perfect weight balance which the handling and performance is dependent on (also dependent on the structure that has now been tampered with), all for putting the roof down?

So here is the math... You pay a nice price for perfectly balanced performance car THEN you pay extra to tamper with that perfect balance.

I just dont get it. I dont mean this in ANY offensive way at all and I really hope it does not sound that way. Again, I just dont think I really get the concept.

EDIT: If I ever wanted a BMW vert, I would get a 328vert because obviously the performance does not matter as much as the joys of having the top down. Some might say "what if I want the power AND the top down?!" in that case I would suggest a 335 vert with a tune (which I would feel is still a bit of waste of money but can understanding someone wanting a powerful vert as a daily driver). But I can not understand a M3 vert.
Track one

You'll feel different.

I have times similar to some in e90/92s on the same track the same day.

I've also tracked an e90M3 on the same track the same day

There is a difference, but it's not night and day

Until you drive one, you won't understand.

Also, a 335i with a tune DPs FMIC etc is still not a M3.
How do I know this? I have a 335i with over 400whp and torque.
In a straight line, sure the 335i is faster, but that's pretty much it.
Even with all the suspension mods I did, it didn't handle as well and as smooth.
Also, the constant smooth power of the S65 beats any N54, tuned or not.

Also....
"perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny "

The M3 is not perfect weight balance, does not have the perfect engine, nor does it have the perfect tranny

I don't know where you got this from my friend.

Nonetheless, the price I got my e93 lease for was about $100 less than an equally equipped coupe, so yay

Regardless though, for some people, BUYING a 75k car or a 83k car won't affect them.

Hell, if you're looking at buying a car, and a 10% difference will push you over your comfort zone...maybe you're not ready to be up in that price range anyways.... (not saying this about anyone, just saying in general)
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      07-20-2011, 07:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Here is what I dont really understand with guys buying M3 verts. When you purchase (pay the price) for an M3, you are paying for the perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny to utilize that weight balance, you are paying for the perfect structure and rigidity, you are paying for the performance and handling. This is what you are paying for in an M3. You pay extra money over a 3 series to get these benefits.

THEN, you pay BMW extra money to cut off your roof and b piller, destroying the rigidity and structural firmness of the car, you pay extra to add a considerable amount of weight and throw off the perfect weight balance which the handling and performance is dependent on (also dependent on the structure that has now been tampered with), all for putting the roof down?

So here is the math... You pay a nice price for perfectly balanced performance car THEN you pay extra to tamper with that perfect balance.

I just dont get it. I dont mean this in ANY offensive way at all and I really hope it does not sound that way. Again, I just dont think I really get the concept.

EDIT: If I ever wanted a BMW vert, I would get a 328vert because obviously the performance does not matter as much as the joys of having the top down. Some might say "what if I want the power AND the top down?!" in that case I would suggest a 335 vert with a tune (which I would feel is still a bit of waste of money but can understanding someone wanting a powerful vert as a daily driver). But I can not understand a M3 vert.
If I were looking for a coupe instead of a convertible, I would be sitting in a GT-R, not an M3. The M3 vert had all my criteria met and I'm happy to be driving it with the top down as much as possible.
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      07-20-2011, 07:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by m3keash View Post
If I were looking for a coupe instead of a convertible, I would be sitting in a GT-R, not an M3. The M3 vert had all my criteria met and I'm happy to be driving it with the top down as much as possible.
Funny that's the position I was in as well

I test drove a couple of GTRs, almost signed the paperwork too until they pulled some crappy BS on me (raised the lease price by 20%!!! and wanted more down)
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      07-20-2011, 07:18 PM   #14
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Funny that's the position I was in as well

I test drove a couple of GTRs, almost signed the paperwork too until they pulled some crappy BS on me (raised the lease price by 20%!!! and wanted more down)
I think we made the best decision. GT-R's are apparently very expensive to maintain.
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      07-21-2011, 02:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
Track one

You'll feel different.

I have times similar to some in e90/92s on the same track the same day.

I've also tracked an e90M3 on the same track the same day

There is a difference, but it's not night and day

Until you drive one, you won't understand.

Also, a 335i with a tune DPs FMIC etc is still not a M3.
How do I know this? I have a 335i with over 400whp and torque.
In a straight line, sure the 335i is faster, but that's pretty much it.
Even with all the suspension mods I did, it didn't handle as well and as smooth.
Also, the constant smooth power of the S65 beats any N54, tuned or not.

Also....
"perfect weight balance, the perfect engine and tranny "

The M3 is not perfect weight balance, does not have the perfect engine, nor does it have the perfect tranny

I don't know where you got this from my friend.

Nonetheless, the price I got my e93 lease for was about $100 less than an equally equipped coupe, so yay

Regardless though, for some people, BUYING a 75k car or a 83k car won't affect them.

Hell, if you're looking at buying a car, and a 10% difference will push you over your comfort zone...maybe you're not ready to be up in that price range anyways.... (not saying this about anyone, just saying in general)

Just a heads up, I'm not here to piss on anyone's parade, just stating that I don't understand the mentality. With that said, I'll answer some of your questions.

I've done a couple laps in a vert (big willow) there is a noticeable difference. On a tighter road corse the difference would be more noticeable.

Since you are not a pro driver (nor am I) your lap times against a group you hit the track with are all about the driver, not the car. So if you post a similar lap time against someone in a E92 who does not drive as well as you do, that doesn't say anything. So your similar lap times in this scenario are irrelevant.

In regards to owning a 335, I agree because I had one as well 4 years ago. I am pretty confident in saying that if you did not currently own a E92 coupe (335), your decision about getting a M3 vert may have been much different but that's neither here nor there.

The M3 has as perfect of a weight balance as you can ask for in a road vehicle 51/49 if I'm not mistaken? Even Porsche does not have this kind of weight balance.

What do you call perfect weight balance? 50/50? Close enough.

Not the perfect engine is an opinion at this point as you will have an extremely difficult time finding a natural V8 redlining at 8400rpm with peak power coming on at redline and torque being put down flat as a table top. What engine comes close to this without intruding on super car territory?

What do you consider a perfect engine?

In regards to pricing on a vert being 10% more hence becoming an affordability issue, I will confidently tell you that price is NOT the main reason people do NOT buy a vert M3. I have no proof of this, but I am confident enough to assure you that price is not the reason that people do not buy a vert M3. You can run a poll if you like, would gather enough data to prove this is absolutely irrelevant and definitely not a talking point when it comes to the topic of performance.

In addition, the E93 M3 is around 440lbs (as far as I can remember) heavier than an E92 M3. 440lbs. That's no joke. To put that into perspective... The weight difference between a E92 and E93 is over 100lbs greater than the weight difference between a E46 and an E92 M3. If you really look at the most talked about issues or complaints in regards to the E9x M3, you will see it's about 1) torque from those who typically don't understand how torque truly works or understand but just don't like how the E9x torque applies and 2) weight being significantly more than then E46 M3s. With that said, an additional 440lbs is a significant amount. Add to that the cut off roof affecting rigidity and structure, you still have the same brakes as I do which are now supposed to slow down an extra 440lbs, and you got yourself something to think about.

Again, not pissing on anyone's parade there is nothing like seeing a happy M3 owner whatever their reasons of joy may be. This is just my opinion supported with facts. I personally, would not spend my money on a M3 vert which is only a preference I have due to the information I've posted above. Not because I do not have the money. Lulz.
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      07-21-2011, 08:34 AM   #16
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Just a heads up, I'm not here to piss on anyone's parade, just stating that I don't understand the mentality. With that said, I'll answer some of your questions.

I've done a couple laps in a vert (big willow) there is a noticeable difference. On a tighter road corse the difference would be more noticeable.

Since you are not a pro driver (nor am I) your lap times against a group you hit the track with are all about the driver, not the car. So if you post a similar lap time against someone in a E92 who does not drive as well as you do, that doesn't say anything. So your similar lap times in this scenario are irrelevant.

In regards to owning a 335, I agree because I had one as well 4 years ago. I am pretty confident in saying that if you did not currently own a E92 coupe (335), your decision about getting a M3 vert may have been much different but that's neither here nor there.

The M3 has as perfect of a weight balance as you can ask for in a road vehicle 51/49 if I'm not mistaken? Even Porsche does not have this kind of weight balance.

What do you call perfect weight balance? 50/50? Close enough.

Not the perfect engine is an opinion at this point as you will have an extremely difficult time finding a natural V8 redlining at 8400rpm with peak power coming on at redline and torque being put down flat as a table top. What engine comes close to this without intruding on super car territory?

What do you consider a perfect engine?

In regards to pricing on a vert being 10% more hence becoming an affordability issue, I will confidently tell you that price is NOT the main reason people do NOT buy a vert M3. I have no proof of this, but I am confident enough to assure you that price is not the reason that people do not buy a vert M3. You can run a poll if you like, would gather enough data to prove this is absolutely irrelevant and definitely not a talking point when it comes to the topic of performance.

In addition, the E93 M3 is around 440lbs (as far as I can remember) heavier than an E92 M3. 440lbs. That's no joke. To put that into perspective... The weight difference between a E92 and E93 is over 100lbs greater than the weight difference between a E46 and an E92 M3. If you really look at the most talked about issues or complaints in regards to the E9x M3, you will see it's about 1) torque from those who typically don't understand how torque truly works or understand but just don't like how the E9x torque applies and 2) weight being significantly more than then E46 M3s. With that said, an additional 440lbs is a significant amount. Add to that the cut off roof affecting rigidity and structure, you still have the same brakes as I do which are now supposed to slow down an extra 440lbs, and you got yourself something to think about.

Again, not pissing on anyone's parade there is nothing like seeing a happy M3 owner whatever their reasons of joy may be. This is just my opinion supported with facts. I personally, would not spend my money on a M3 vert which is only a preference I have due to the information I've posted above. Not because I do not have the money. Lulz.

Well this could quickly spiral out of control into a mine is better than yours discussion. The OP was asking for feedback on a vert and none of the original questions were centered on the issues you state for not understanding the logic for buying one at all. If there was no market BMW wouldn't produce them.

Now if I follow the logic stream here the only perfect M would be a coupe. Why make a 4 door super car or a convertible super car? Why does Porsche offer convertibles?

I think it is silly to question why someone would wnat a vert, vs. a coupe etc. I am not a professional driver nor an automotive design expert. I chose a covnvertible because thats what I wanted, M3 power and handling with a drop top. Could it be lighter (yes if they went to a soft-top)
I like the fact that is actually 2 cars in one, an awsome fair weather ride and I can put the top up and its as if it is a totally different vehicle.
However, the added weight is to boost rigidity since they do remove B Pillars (so the point about reducing rigidity/integrity of the car is erroneous)

They wouldn't just cut it up and not re-inforce elsewhere which is traditionally why verts are heavy.

In the end to each his own, if I was still in NY I would never have purchased a vert (would have went coupe) but where you play also has an impac on the decision. Additionally, I like the fact that you don't see too many verts (maybe because based on your logic it is not the perfect car as the M3 Coupe) but it is for me and it is more than adequate. The drops in performance in my opinion are minimal for a DD type car and I get the added benefit of a tan. Its the ultimate tanning machine.

To each his own though its all good and we are still all part of the M club. Which ever car you choose is a matter of preference. Its like adding options, 6MT or DCT there is no right or wrong just what is right for you. OP if a vert is what you want then get it, if "performance declines" scare you off then don't.
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      07-21-2011, 12:12 PM   #17
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Well this could quickly spiral out of control into a mine is better than yours discussion. The OP was asking for feedback on a vert and none of the original questions were centered on the issues you state for not understanding the logic for buying one at all. If there was no market BMW wouldn't produce them.

Now if I follow the logic stream here the only perfect M would be a coupe. Why make a 4 door super car or a convertible super car? Why does Porsche offer convertibles?

I think it is silly to question why someone would wnat a vert, vs. a coupe etc. I am not a professional driver nor an automotive design expert. I chose a covnvertible because thats what I wanted, M3 power and handling with a drop top. Could it be lighter (yes if they went to a soft-top)
I like the fact that is actually 2 cars in one, an awsome fair weather ride and I can put the top up and its as if it is a totally different vehicle.
However, the added weight is to boost rigidity since they do remove B Pillars (so the point about reducing rigidity/integrity of the car is erroneous)

They wouldn't just cut it up and not re-inforce elsewhere which is traditionally why verts are heavy.

In the end to each his own, if I was still in NY I would never have purchased a vert (would have went coupe) but where you play also has an impac on the decision. Additionally, I like the fact that you don't see too many verts (maybe because based on your logic it is not the perfect car as the M3 Coupe) but it is for me and it is more than adequate. The drops in performance in my opinion are minimal for a DD type car and I get the added benefit of a tan. Its the ultimate tanning machine.

To each his own though its all good and we are still all part of the M club. Which ever car you choose is a matter of preference. Its like adding options, 6MT or DCT there is no right or wrong just what is right for you. OP if a vert is what you want then get it, if "performance declines" scare you off then don't.
Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to come across unlike an ass and actually state numerous times that it's just my personal preference, someone is still going to take it the wrong way.

I did not start this as a mine is better than yours in any way shape or form and made an effort to clearly state that. If to you a car with a roof is not an option, no matter what my car with a roof is, how can mine possibly be better? It is an opinion and a preference.

I was truly hoping someone would be able to give me some insight about choosing a vert, but all I keep getting is defensive responses. Even tho I tried not to offend anyone, it still happened.

I did not start a new thread about this because I really don't care enough, and judging from how the last few posts went, it would go to hell in a hand basket.

I'm not some irrational asshole and I would ask the same question to a Porsche or Ferrari owner. I do have family who have a Porsche Turbo Vert and a F430 Vert. I don't get that as much as I don't get an M3 vert but since it's family I guess it easier to have that convo without anyone getting offended.
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      07-21-2011, 01:24 PM   #18
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Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to come across unlike an ass and actually state numerous times that it's just my personal preference, someone is still going to take it the wrong way.

I did not start this as a mine is better than yours in any way shape or form and made an effort to clearly state that. If to you a car with a roof is not an option, no matter what my car with a roof is, how can mine possibly be better? It is an opinion and a preference.

I was truly hoping someone would be able to give me some insight about choosing a vert, but all I keep getting is defensive responses. Even tho I tried not to offend anyone, it still happened.

I did not start a new thread about this because I really don't care enough, and judging from how the last few posts went, it would go to hell in a hand basket.

I'm not some irrational asshole and I would ask the same question to a Porsche or Ferrari owner. I do have family who have a Porsche Turbo Vert and a F430 Vert. I don't get that as much as I don't get an M3 vert but since it's family I guess it easier to have that convo without anyone getting offended.
I thought I did in my reply. I chose the vert because I always wanted one. Which was the logic behind me getting a 335i Vert first.

There is just something about a convertible to me (in the right climate of course) that was appealing.

I drove the M3 coupe but, wanted to get an M3 vert because after owning a vert it became clear to me that it is what I really like, I felt "closed in" in the coupe and you don't see many M3 verts (plenty of verts BMW and others) on the road down here. I drive with the top down almost everyday (unless really hot in the afternoons) and love the sound of both the motor and the exhaust too. I didn't think twice regarding extra weight, price, performance degregation or anything else.

If that didn't come across in my post then I hope this clarifies it a bit.
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      07-21-2011, 01:31 PM   #19
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I thought I did in my reply. I chose the vert because I always wanted one. Which was the logic behind me getting a 335i Vert first.

There is just something about a convertible to me (in the right climate of course) that was appealing.

I drove the M3 coupe but, wanted to get an M3 vert because after owning a vert it became clear to me that it is what I really like, I felt "closed in" in the coupe and you don't see many M3 verts (plenty of verts BMW and others) on the road down here. I drive with the top down almost everyday (unless really hot in the afternoons) and love the sound of both the motor and the exhaust too. I didn't think twice regarding extra weight, price, performance degregation or anything else.

If that didn't come across in my post then I hope this clarifies it a bit.
Hey mazing, thanks for that, it does make sense from your standpoint. Most of my opinions on the M3 are more performance oriented hence my questions.

Just out of curiosity, how tall are you?
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      07-21-2011, 02:51 PM   #20
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Hey mazing, thanks for that, it does make sense from your standpoint. Most of my opinions on the M3 are more performance oriented hence my questions.

Just out of curiosity, how tall are you?
I am 5 10, You want to dance?
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      07-21-2011, 02:59 PM   #21
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I am 5 10, You want to dance?
Bahahaha no just asking because Ive noticed a good number of vert drivers are taller in general.
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      07-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #22
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This has inspired me to go test drive the e93 M3 and see how different it feels from my e90. I know it won't be a track experience to feel the differences, but I'm still curious. I'm sure it is still a really great car!

As long as it's a M3 ppl!
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