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      09-08-2011, 08:56 PM   #23
shiv@vishnu
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Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Now that you are starting to actually tune for the methanol with more "aggressive" mapping, are there any safeguards just in case methanol injection fails or is empty?
As mentioned by TMR and MR///M3 said, we have many failsafes in place. Primarily, our feed-forward methanol mapping logic prevents the aggressive fuel/timing changes from taking place without the measured methanol flow. Basically, there are two complete tunes defined the Procede memory. One is a conservative pump gas tune. And the other is the aggressive methanol tune. The Procede "slides" between these two extremes based upon how much methanol is flowing. Meth flow is measured by a turbine-stype flow meter with a hall effects sensor feeding the rotational signal back to the Procede. If flow were to be compromised, the tune wouldn't become fully aggressive. If flow were to stop completely, the tune would assume pump gas mapping. We support 20+psi n54 applications making upwards of 500whp on pump gas with this same very methanol control logic. So a high compression NA application is very easy in comparison
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      09-08-2011, 09:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
As mentioned by TMR and MR///M3 said, we have many failsafes in place. Primarily, our feed-forward methanol mapping logic prevents the aggressive fuel/timing changes from taking place without the measured methanol flow. Basically, there are two complete tunes defined the Procede memory. One is a conservative pump gas tune. And the other is the aggressive methanol tune. The Procede "slides" between these two extremes based upon how much methanol is flowing. Meth flow is measured by a turbine-stype flow meter with a hall effects sensor feeding the rotational signal back to the Procede. If flow were to be compromised, the tune wouldn't become fully aggressive. If flow were to stop completely, the tune would assume pump gas mapping. We support 20+psi n54 applications making upwards of 500whp on pump gas with this same very methanol control logic. So a high compression NA application is very easy in comparison
Very cool! I apologize for not being well versed in your tuning capabilities with the Procede. I never really looked into what the N54 guys are up to these days, hehe.

So in a hypothetical scenario, if I was running it hard on the track and I accidentally ran out of Methanol or my nozzle got clogged, how quickly does the tune revert back to the pump gas map?
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      09-08-2011, 09:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by flipm3 View Post
Very cool! I apologize for not being well versed in your tuning capabilities with the Procede. I never really looked into what the N54 guys are up to these days, hehe.

So in a hypothetical scenario, if I was running it hard on the track and I accidentally ran out of Methanol or my nozzle got clogged, how quickly does the tune revert back to the pump gas map?
A matter of milliseconds.
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      09-08-2011, 09:59 PM   #26
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A matter of milliseconds.
Wow, that's very impressive. Again, I am greatly looking forward to seeing the results with your Meth tune!!

Thanks for sharing.
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      09-08-2011, 11:12 PM   #27
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Need another M3 to test on ('09 DCT)? I'm in the bay.
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      09-08-2011, 11:17 PM   #28
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Need another M3 to test on ('09 DCT)? I'm in the bay.
He has a DCT he's already working with as well I believe
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      09-09-2011, 12:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
i know just messing around, wonder how it would be on FI m3s
With the ESS VT625, I saw roughly a 25whp gain just by turning the meth on vs. 95 octane only.

Interesting stuff Shiv, looking forward to more results.
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      09-09-2011, 12:43 AM   #30
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With the ESS VT625, I saw roughly a 25whp gain just by turning the meth on vs. 95 octane only.

Interesting stuff Shiv, looking forward to more results.
since you live in cali do you usually run 91 with your setup?
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      09-09-2011, 02:24 AM   #31
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He has a DCT he's already working with as well I believe
He needs to hurry up and finish!!!



I cant wait to see what he comes up with. All his stuff is top notch.
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      09-09-2011, 03:00 AM   #32
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Hey guys-- quick update on the current state of the tune. Now, with meth flowing, we are adding 2-4 deg of advance at WOT. Picks up nice in the higher gears!

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      09-09-2011, 09:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Finally someone thinking outside the box instead of offering same old tuning as everyone else that IMO cannot offer more gains with t heir approach.

Shiv makes a lot of sense in the fact you need to change what you are working with to get more power-meaning you need enough octane and cool enough temperatures to get the max out of a stock engine, let a lone a tuned engine. And cool enough temps are not something a stock engine can produce. Octane is also tough to get consistently in hte 95 range where IMO it has to be.

What would actually be really helpful is if Shiv could datalog some runs with 91 v. 93 v 95 and see if timing continues to advance up until 95 which is where I suspect is about the max for this engine without any tune.

Would provide better evidence than variable dynos with different octanes given dynos are so inconsistent. However if it was clear that timing advance was continuing beyond 93 and up to 95 then there is no doubt adding 95 would continue to add power and we would learn that it truly is octane limited even at 93. This would be important because as shiv said doing any tuning or mods with 93 or 91 octane is pointless IMO as when you are octane limited you obviously cannot gain by doing other things nearly as easily

Shiv will get it done.


Hey Shiv, funny I posted in the M3 thread complaining about having to use piss water 91 octane the other day. Suggested they look into adapting an Aquamist system to run on the S62. Shouldnt be hard.

and now here you are! Great minds

There is 0 doubt it will make a difference, lower IAT's and higher octane are not for boosted engines alone.
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      09-09-2011, 09:58 AM   #34
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i was thinking about adding a meth kit to my SC VT1-535 E90M3... hmmmm.
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      09-09-2011, 10:03 AM   #35
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^ do it. contact shiv and get one hooked up. It will help big time. Will make the engine less knock prone under load too.
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      09-09-2011, 10:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
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^ do it. contact shiv and get one hooked up. It will help big time. Will make the engine less knock prone under load too.
mebbe... money talks and my wallet is officially empty after yesterday lol. in due time... i'm sure id need to roll up to NorCal for him to play with it
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      09-09-2011, 10:56 AM   #37
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Shiv will get it done.


Hey Shiv, funny I posted in the M3 thread complaining about having to use piss water 91 octane the other day. Suggested they look into adapting an Aquamist system to run on the S62. Shouldnt be hard.

and now here you are! Great minds

There is 0 doubt it will make a difference, lower IAT's and higher octane are not for boosted engines alone.
Yep! What got me interested is reading that thread about how many people run race gas mixes with their m3s. Not to mention the huge variance in stock dyno results. Then actually driving on hard and hearing it rattle/ping during sudden changes of throttle. With a stock tune! I was really surprised.
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      09-09-2011, 12:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Yep! What got me interested is reading that thread about how many people run race gas mixes with their m3s. Not to mention the huge variance in stock dyno results. Then actually driving on hard and hearing it rattle/ping during sudden changes of throttle. With a stock tune! I was really surprised.
yeah that is pretty bad on stock tune w 91 but i'm not surprised, its a high strung engine.

so how long before Terry is over here advertising the JBM for M3's
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      09-09-2011, 12:27 PM   #39
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Yea, who would have thought

Have you taken it to the dyno yet?
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      09-09-2011, 01:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
since you live in cali do you usually run 91 with your setup?
With the VT625 you need a minimum 93 octane, even with the WM I did not want to run 91 octane at 7.x psi on the stock block.
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      09-09-2011, 01:11 PM   #41
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With the VT625 you need a minimum 93 octane, even with the WM I did not want to run 91 octane at 7.x psi on the stock block.
What kind of methanol systems are run on these SC kits? If you have a good meth system, running 91 vs 93 should be inconsequential. Of course, running out of meth would involve some sort of a dme map change or even some sort of boost bypass valve for the supercharger. Any anything like that in place?
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      09-09-2011, 02:30 PM   #42
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With the VT625 you need a minimum 93 octane, even with the WM I did not want to run 91 octane at 7.x psi on the stock block.
do u just mix 100 with 91 or is there somewhere to get 93 in cali
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      09-09-2011, 02:32 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
What kind of methanol systems are run on these SC kits? If you have a good meth system, running 91 vs 93 should be inconsequential. Of course, running out of meth would involve some sort of a dme map change or even some sort of boost bypass valve for the supercharger. Any anything like that in place?
ESS kit's do NOT utilize meth kits unless the user decides to put one. I believe Drew is the only ESS SC car that was running meth but there will be a few more soon
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      09-09-2011, 02:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
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do u just mix 100 with 91 or is there somewhere to get 93 in cali
sorry but the quote on your signature is win. hahaha.

i don't think there is 93 here in cali... i believe drew does mix his fuels to get that nice 95 blend.
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