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      09-07-2011, 04:15 AM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Vishnu PWM Methanol/Procede Testing

Hi guys,
This is my first post on the m3 section of this forum. M3post Vendor status is in progress.

Just thought you guys would find this interesting. For the past few week, I've been working on a little pet project for our newly acquired e90 m3 project car. It's a 2007 production built 6MT. Living in CA, it runs on 91oct fuel (Shell V-Power). The only mods are/were a Vanguard rear exhaust section. Stock cats. Stock intake. Stock DME. Ambient temps were mid-70F.

First thing I did was benchmark some real-world acceleration times using our vbox. Keeping things somewhat tame, I conducted 30-110mph runs starting in a 2nd gear roll on. Using the same section of level road, vbox times were consistently in the 12.0-12.2 second range. I installed a customized (for m3 application) Procede engine control computer which I ran in pass-thru mode for datalogging purposes. Here is one of the runs:



Intake air temps were in the mid to high 30s which is reasonable given ambient conditions. With each successive gear, average ignition timing dropped. During a couple runs, I even heard a couple pings in the 5500-6000rpm range.

Next, I turned on a customized version of our n54 PWM meth system. Unlike most other methanol systems, this one is metered by an Aquamist valve driven directly by the Procede. The Procede also monitors actual methanol flow by reading the raw frequency signal provided by the flow meter turbine with hall effects sensor. Still in the process of playing around with nozzle size and placement. But first attempt testing looks promising. But just enabling the Procede controlled methanol system, VBox showed 30-110 times of 11.6-11.8 which is a considerable improvement. Especially considering that we made no active changes to ignition advance setpoints or AFR target values. Here's a datalog:



With no actual mapping changes, the DME picked up 3-6 degrees of timing in each gear. Especially noticeable immediately post shift where it pushed me in the chair nicely. Intake air temps readings plummeted to just 5 deg C (a ~30deg C reduction). I suspect there is some wet bulb effect given the location of the sensor and the nozzles. But in my experience, real IAT will still be in that ballpark. Still heaps below the IAT measured without meth. The car was noticeably faster due to the denser air charge (providing a nice VE bump) and the extra advance (providing a nice thermal efficiency bump).

Did some preliminary testing earlier tonight by increasing timing advance targets and the results were in-line with expectations. 30-110mph times dropped again to 11.4-11.6 seconds. And that is with some pretty coarse tuning. Will be cleaning things up on the dyno later this week. As well as make some minor changes to nozzles location/size. Will also play around with fuel mapping. I'm pretty confident we will see some sizeable gains. Better than what one would see with race gas and a DME tune. I'll keep you guys posted. I'd love to see if it's possible to make a 100% heak-soak resistant 400whp with basic bolt-ons, Procede and meth. I'll keep you guys posted. More datalogs, dyno results and pictures to follow

Cheers,
Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 09-07-2011 at 05:02 AM.
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      09-07-2011, 05:09 AM   #2
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Interested to see what you can do tuning wise. Always nice to see some competition between different companies. Subscribed.
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      09-07-2011, 08:11 AM   #3
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Thanks for showing the great effects of M/W injection on an NA car. I have been devising my own plans for implementing methanol into my E46 M3, I'm just finishing up some other modifications first.

I'm looking forward to seeing some of your upcoming results.
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      09-07-2011, 08:38 AM   #4
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I am very very interested in a meth system for the NA V8 we have!! doo it.
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      09-07-2011, 09:35 AM   #5
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Sweet. Welcome to the other side. Would like to hear more info when you get it
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      09-07-2011, 11:00 AM   #6
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come back to us n54/n55 lol, good work tho
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      09-07-2011, 11:02 AM   #7
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      09-07-2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPWINCH View Post
come back to us n54/n55 lol, good work tho
Lol we haven't left. That's still out main focus. This was more of a special project effort
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      09-07-2011, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Lol we haven't left. That's still out main focus. This was more of a special project effort
i know just messing around, wonder how it would be on FI m3s
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      09-07-2011, 10:36 PM   #10
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Woooohoooo!!! I just sold my procede V5 off my 335 because I have an M3 on order and I was sad to have to use a different company for tuning, but not anymore! I'm VERY interested in what you are going to do with the S65 platform.
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      09-07-2011, 10:54 PM   #11
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Very interested. Thanks for sharing the results!
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      09-08-2011, 12:45 AM   #12
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This proves is that our engines need better fuel to make their full potential..... I wish we had access to better fuel like they have available in europe without going to race gas.

Good findings with your meth system!
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      09-08-2011, 12:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
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This proves is that our engines need better fuel to make their full potential..... I wish we had access to better fuel like they have available in europe without going to race gas.

Good findings with your meth system!
Thanks... you are 100% correct. This engine rarely makes its rated power on pump gas. Which is why DME tunes alone don't provide consistent/significant gains. The real solution to making more power safely is to change the operating conditions of the engine (octane and intake air temp) and only then making the tune more aggressive. With this being the case, a fully integrated tune/methanol combo should be the magic bullet.
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      09-08-2011, 01:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Thanks... you are 100% correct. This engine rarely makes its rated power on pump gas. Which is why DME tunes alone don't provide consistent/significant gains. The real solution to making more power safely is to change the operating conditions of the engine (octane and intake air temp) and only then making the tune more aggressive. With this being the case, a fully integrated tune/methanol combo should be the magic bullet.


Now get it DONE!!!!
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      09-08-2011, 03:33 AM   #15
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Get it done.. I want it... Great work
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      09-08-2011, 03:40 PM   #16
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Have you done any testing how much effect the kit have on 93-94 oct fuel and colder temp?
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      09-08-2011, 04:38 PM   #17
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awesome, can't wait to see more results and to drive an M3 with this stuff on it
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      09-08-2011, 07:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Have you done any testing how much effect the kit have on 93-94 oct fuel and colder temp?
Unfortunately, i have only tested in our conditions here in CA. Temp has been between 60-100 deg and we run 91oct. I'm quite sure there will be significant gains on 93 as well. The effects of methanol is like running 100+ octane in 40-50F deg cooler weather. It's quite noticeable. And that is without modifying the engine tune itself to be more aggressive to take advantage of lower IATs and higher octane. If you tune for the methanol (as we are now doing), the gains will be even greater.

shiv
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      09-08-2011, 07:54 PM   #19
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awesome, can't wait to see more results and to drive an M3 with this stuff on it
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      09-08-2011, 08:11 PM   #20
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Now that you are starting to actually tune for the methanol with more "aggressive" mapping, are there any safeguards just in case methanol injection fails or is empty?
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      09-08-2011, 08:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Now that you are starting to actually tune for the methanol with more "aggressive" mapping, are there any safeguards just in case methanol injection fails or is empty?
shiv has a ton of experience with meth and bmw engines... his n54 meth system is very advanced.
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      09-08-2011, 08:36 PM   #22
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When and If the proceed starts to advance the timing or lean out the fuel mixure while Meth is flowing and meth runs out, the proceed will know when you are running out and switch back to the stock or maybe a custom Shiv safe tune. The Proceed is well sorted and controls the meth better than any other system out there.

Now, If he could only get it finished and shipped... All would be well.
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