BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wash, Wax, Detail, Cosmetic Maintenance & Repairs
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-06-2011, 03:42 PM   #1
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,301
iTrader: (3)

Folks with BBK's stay away from Sonax Full Effect Wheel Cleaner

Hello guys, just thought I would post this to alert people to the fact that Sonax wheel cleaner is not very friendly to BBK's

I used P21S wheel cleaner for all of 2010 on my car with no issues, it worked fine and was gentle enough that it didn't harm my Brembo's at all.

I switched to Sonax this spring after taking the car out of storage and my brakes were still like new however after washing the car all season using the Sonax it has taken the cadmium plating off of the rotors and all of the fasteners including the bleeder screws leaving them susceptible to rust and looking shitty in general. I have since cleaned the rust off and polished everything however I am stopping the use of the Sonax all together since I don't like the fact that it does this.

Don't get me wrong the Sonax is a great wheel cleaner and it works well but it is not as good as the P21S since it is a too aggressive on the brakes and any other ferrous parts that are exposed to it repeatedly.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 09-06-2011 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Mistakes caused by BIMMERPOST APP
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 03:58 PM   #2
disapr
drop a gear and...
 
Drives: 2010 M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 961
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
+1

I had some bird spots buffed on my hood and the detail guy thought he'd be nice and wash the whole car. Well thanks to him I have some ugly white spots on my brand new brembo hats where the the P21S hit them. I think that I can get this off because it was only used once but that is pretty nasty wheel cleaner. Simple Green works best unless you only wash your car when you can no longer tell what color it is.
__________________
disapr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 04:27 PM   #3
rjd598
Brigadier General
 
rjd598's Avatar
 
Drives: 10' M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego,CA

Posts: 4,498
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2010 BMW M3  [4.50]
1999 BMW M3  [0.00]
You should contact sonax themselves. Don't they advertise a safe wheel cleaner?
__________________
10 E90 M3/dct/ztp/zpp/heated seats/eps/19'/iPod
retired- 08 535i/nav/prem./L7/ipod
retired- 06 325i/nav/prem./sat/xenons/style 128

rjd598 is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 04:34 PM   #4
mikenap
Private First Class
 
mikenap's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 E46 M3(sold) :(
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Charlotte/Lake Norman, NC

Posts: 106
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by disapr View Post
+1

I had some bird spots buffed on my hood and the detail guy thought he'd be nice and wash the whole car. Well thanks to him I have some ugly white spots on my brand new brembo hats where the the P21S hit them. I think that I can get this off because it was only used once but that is pretty nasty wheel cleaner. Simple Green works best unless you only wash your car when you can no longer tell what color it is.
Sorry, I'm confused. Did the P21S cause this, or did you mean Sonax?

Also, normal Simple Green is not safe for all wheels either. They make a safer Simple Green (the name escapes me) but it's not sold everywhere and it is more expensive.
mikenap is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 04:52 PM   #5
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,301
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenap View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by disapr View Post
1

I had some bird spots buffed on my hood and the detail guy thought he'd be nice and wash the whole car. Well thanks to him I have some ugly white spots on my brand new brembo hats where the the P21S hit them. I think that I can get this off because it was only used once but that is pretty nasty wheel cleaner. Simple Green works best unless you only wash your car when you can no longer tell what color it is.
Sorry, I'm confused. Did the P21S cause this, or did you mean Sonax?
Yeah, I am confused too..... You can leave P21S on for hours and it doesn't hurt brakes etc. The Sonax is the issue, I am going back to P21S.

Sonax is true to it's advertising, it is safe for wheels, just not brakes, ferrous (iron/steel based) parts, it eats away at them.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 05:20 PM   #6
Z K
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Z K's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,988
iTrader: (3)

Sonax is not good for non-painted/clear coated parts. It eats at iron/bare steel which is why it is so good against brake dust.

Last edited by Z K; 09-06-2011 at 05:53 PM.
Z K is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 05:26 PM   #7
disapr
drop a gear and...
 
Drives: 2010 M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 961
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
The detail shop used P21S and left corrosion on my hats.

I've had no issue with simple green but I spray it on and then immediately follow with a soft brush and water/auto shampoo solution.

All wheel cleaner is going to be more harsh than is really necessary - That's why I don't use it.
__________________
disapr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 06:09 PM   #8
sensi09
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: socal

Posts: 1,762
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by disapr View Post
The detail shop used P21S and left corrosion on my hats.

I've had no issue with simple green but I spray it on and then immediately follow with a soft brush and water/auto shampoo solution.

All wheel cleaner is going to be more harsh than is really necessary - That's why I don't use it.
Simple green is harsher than the two wheel cleaners listed here IMO. I'd be weary of using simple green on my wheels.
sensi09 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 06:54 PM   #9
w00tw00t
Lieutenant Colonel
 
w00tw00t's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle

Posts: 1,621
iTrader: (11)

I just use soap and water on my wheels. Dont mind them a little dirty.. rather that then paint fuckups ..
w00tw00t is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 06:55 PM   #10
sensi09
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: socal

Posts: 1,762
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00tw00t View Post
I just use soap and water on my wheels. Dont mind them a little dirty.. rather that then paint fuckups ..
I do the same. And they get nice and clean
sensi09 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 08:11 PM   #11
DetailersDomain
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
DetailersDomain's Avatar
 
Drives: FJ Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast

Posts: 3,587
iTrader: (22)

did you rinse them off good or did you leave anything behind, we have used the sonax on hundreds of cars now some with oem brakes and some with aftermarket BBK's, I run a set of Stop Tech 6 piston/380 mm kit on my car and have used Sonax on every wash with no issues at all.

A good rinsing is all you will need.

Also you can pull the wheels off and clean most of that up.

Hit me up if you like I can walk you thru it if you want.

This is the first time I'm hearing this.

2nd on the Simple Green that stuff is worse than P21S and Sonax.
DetailersDomain is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 09:31 PM   #12
MuttGrunt
Banned
 
Drives: beater;)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SE Michigan

Posts: 872
iTrader: (0)

^ What Phil said. Stay away from Simple Green. It shouldn't be used on any part of your ride.
MuttGrunt is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 10:29 PM   #13
W Cole
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Newport Coast, CA

Posts: 710
iTrader: (4)

P21S left an ugly white/corrosive looking film on my OEM calipers. I only left it on a short amount of time and completely rinsed it off. I'm going to take off the wheels this weekend and assess the damage. I'm hoping it can be cleaned off.

Edit: Any tips for getting this stuff off?
W Cole is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 10:52 PM   #14
Envious Eric
Banned
 
Drives: nissan xterra, 335 soon
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: orange county, ca

Posts: 1,168
iTrader: (1)

WOW, never heard of this before.

I have to think the brake calipers werent agitated or rinsed thoroughly. I have used it on about 50 cars not, about 10 I have seen 3 months later and no ill signs...(granted that is not a super long time)
Envious Eric is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:08 AM   #15
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,301
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailersDomain View Post
did you rinse them off good or did you leave anything behind, we have used the sonax on hundreds of cars now some with oem brakes and some with aftermarket BBK's, I run a set of Stop Tech 6 piston/380 mm kit on my car and have used Sonax on every wash with no issues at all.

A good rinsing is all you will need.

Also you can pull the wheels off and clean most of that up.

Hit me up if you like I can walk you thru it if you want.

This is the first time I'm hearing this.

2nd on the Simple Green that stuff is worse than P21S and Sonax.
I always rinse very well using my pressure washer and I flush the wheels/brakes very well again later with the fire nozzle on my garden hose, the Sonax is just doing what it is designed to do, eat away and dissolve ferrous metals, no amount of rinsing is going to prevent this, it is the way the chemical works. It took a half dozen uses for it to strip off the Zinc/Cadmium plating and for the rust to begin and it is clear it is the chemical doing it. It is fine on the calipers, hats, wheels it is just on the cast iron rotors and mild steel fasteners that it causes issues. By the time it has a chance to turn red/purple it has already done its thing no matter if it has been rinsed off or not.

Although I no longer do it for a living, I was a detailer for quite some time and I don't need a walk through but thanks for the offer. And yes I have already pulled the wheels and cleaned up all of the fasteners and sealed them already.

The P21S is totally fine and I am going back to using it instead of the Sonax...... I always buy my stuff from you Phil and you won't be loosing sales from me, I will just be buying something different.

Please realize that I am in no way trying to deter people from using any of your products (on the contrary I really appreciate the good service and quality products you offer) I am just posting my findings after comparing these two chemicals to one and other. I do indeed find that the Sonax cleans slightly better than the P21S however the extra cleaning ability is negated by the effects on the mild steel and cast iron brake components. If I were cleaning the wheels off of the car I wouldn't hesitate to use the Sonax but as long as I clean the wheels on the car P21S will be my chemical of choice.

Thanks for taking the time to add to this thread Phil, we need more retailers like you who look out for their customers and stand behind their products.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!

Last edited by BMRLVR; 09-07-2011 at 03:16 AM.
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:16 AM   #16
disapr
drop a gear and...
 
Drives: 2010 M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 961
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Are we all talking about Simple Green all purpose cleaner or the Simple Green wheel cleaner?

I use this http://www.simplegreen.com/products_...se_cleaner.php with a lot of water and have had no issues and my brakes didn't have white spots on them until the P21S was used.

If it's really that bad then I guess I can use something else but so don't see it.
__________________
disapr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 01:04 AM   #17
BimmerRob08
Major
 
BimmerRob08's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3, Space Gray
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: KIKR (ABQ), NM

Posts: 1,255
iTrader: (0)

I have had the same issues with my APracing BBk, but I was using Meguire's Gold edition wheel cleaner and occasionally some other off the shelf. I never would have thought they were strong enough to eat off paint and etch anodized aluminum which are the disc hats.

Now I have to take the brakes off, ship the calipers to IND week after next, get them repainted and glossed and the rear hats that suffered the most etching damage, re-anodized. New hardware and time. Gonna run me about $800 when all said and done. I'm never gonna use that shit again. If I need to really clean my wheels, I'll take the time on a weekend afternoon and jack the M3 up, take off the wheels and clean it all up. I don't mind, but sure mind my $6600+ BBK getting screwed up because of some damn wheel cleaner. GRRRRR!!!!

Good luck man, hope you get your brakes looking like new again.
BimmerRob08 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 01:49 AM   #18
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,301
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerRob08 View Post
I have had the same issues with my APracing BBk, but I was using Meguire's Gold edition wheel cleaner and occasionally some other off the shelf. I never would have thought they were strong enough to eat off paint and etch anodized aluminum which are the disc hats.

Now I have to take the brakes off, ship the calipers to IND week after next, get them repainted and glossed and the rear hats that suffered the most etching damage, re-anodized. New hardware and time. Gonna run me about $800 when all said and done. I'm never gonna use that shit again. If I need to really clean my wheels, I'll take the time on a weekend afternoon and jack the M3 up, take off the wheels and clean it all up. I don't mind, but sure mind my $6600+ BBK getting screwed up because of some damn wheel cleaner. GRRRRR!!!!

Good luck man, hope you get your brakes looking like new again.
My brakes have no damage to the calipers or hats, only the fasteners that are mild steel have started rusting. I am always on top of this sort of stuff and after I noticed the rust to appear I stopped using the Sonax and cleaned up the fasteners.

Down the road I will probably try and source stainless or titanium fasteners to use in the place of the mild steel stuff anyhow.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 08:12 AM   #19
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Templar's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

Posts: 1,816
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Hmm, odd, I've been using Sonax for a while now too with no issues at all. Then again, I just have the OEM brakes/rotors...
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Templar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 01:22 PM   #20
mikenap
Private First Class
 
mikenap's Avatar
 
Drives: 2004 E46 M3(sold) :(
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Charlotte/Lake Norman, NC

Posts: 106
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by disapr View Post
Are we all talking about Simple Green all purpose cleaner or the Simple Green wheel cleaner?

I use this http://www.simplegreen.com/products_...se_cleaner.php with a lot of water and have had no issues and my brakes didn't have white spots on them until the P21S was used.

If it's really that bad then I guess I can use something else but so don't see it.
http://www.simplegreen.com/products_all_wheel.php

I think this is the one you meant. Standard SG, like the one you posted, is bad. Especially to aluminum and anodizing. Their actual wheel cleaner I have no experience with.
mikenap is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 01:29 PM   #21
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,334
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
It seems like the parts were not rinsed thoroughly. I have never seen this happen yet.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.
Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2011, 11:12 PM   #22
AutoCon
Private First Class
 
AutoCon's Avatar
 
Drives: Toyota Tacoma X-Runner
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Pleasanton, CA

Posts: 105
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenap View Post
Sorry, I'm confused. Did the P21S cause this, or did you mean Sonax?

Also, normal Simple Green is not safe for all wheels either. They make a safer Simple Green (the name escapes me) but it's not sold everywhere and it is more expensive.

Bingo Mike..................it's the phosphates and or glycol esthers in Simple etch.......er green.

As for the full effect , I have had none of this happen and I work on BBK's as O.E. brake systems for exotics I do and modified Porsches and M3's, also I have Stoptech ST6 as a stock BBK on my Tacoma X-Runner and no issues ever. I am curious on how long the OP is letting the cleaner stay on the wheel and if the rotors/hats/wheels are cooled down enough?.
AutoCon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST