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      09-02-2011, 11:34 PM   #1
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Primary cat delete ?'s

So, I guess my next mod is deletion of the primary cats but I have heard a lot of rumors. I was hoping some of the senior guys who have already done this mod can help me out. First, I heard that with the primary cat delete, there is a possibility of check engine lights coming on and turning M3 into limp mode. Second, I heard that with deletion of the primary cats, you actually lose TQ. Can anyone help me out with this questions?? Thanks a lot.....

Oh, and I ran a search of the forum but never came up with anything that answered the questions....
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      09-03-2011, 12:19 AM   #2
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you will for sure get a increased emissions warning due to the removal of the primary cats and the second set of o2 sensors is directly behind the stock cat. it may take a few start cycles for it to happen but it will. then every time you turn the car on you will get that same warning until you get a tune to remove it or an akra r-delete module. as far as the reduciton in torque at lower rpms i cant comment on but have heard this as well. i cant say that i felt that myself but the numbers say it happens. just live in the 6-8k range and you wont care.
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      09-03-2011, 12:21 AM   #3
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really? no answers when you searched?

To answer:
with primary cat delete, if you don't do a tune, you have tq lost at lot RPM due to lack of back pressure
however, with a correct tune (like one from OE Tuning), this problem is corrected and you are able to create more power.

Furthermore, deleting the primary cats will 100% give you a CEL. However, it is unlikely that you will indeed go into limp mode.

If you delete the primers (with say a Gintani catless exhaust), i highly recommend getting an OE tune with it.
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      09-03-2011, 12:22 AM   #4
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you will get CEL, you won't go into limp mode, and you might lose a bit of torque at low rpm but you won't feel it.
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      09-03-2011, 12:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahmood07 View Post
you will get CEL, you won't go into limp mode, and you might lose a bit of torque at low rpm but you won't feel it.
After getting a Akra vs the AA (where the primaries are catless vs the AA where it has HFC in the primary location), I feel the torque dip substantially

Need to get the car re-tuned
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      09-03-2011, 12:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
you will for sure get a increased emissions warning due to the removal of the primary cats and the second set of o2 sensors is directly behind the stock cat. it may take a few start cycles for it to happen but it will. then every time you turn the car on you will get that same warning until you get a tune to remove it or an akra r-delete module. as far as the reduciton in torque at lower rpms i cant comment on but have heard this as well. i cant say that i felt that myself but the numbers say it happens. just live in the 6-8k range and you wont care.
Thanks bro... Your good peeps. Always helping... Thanks again...
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      09-03-2011, 07:32 AM   #7
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No CEL with the Innotech pipes and Ive logged over 2500k on mine and I'm sure John and Mike have much more without any issues as well
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      09-03-2011, 04:38 PM   #8
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Persian54: Why do you say OE Tune vs. the more popular ESS or Evolve?

SchnellM3: Isn't the Innotech system designed with a restrictor plate in the O2 sensor bung to keep the CEL light from coming on?
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      09-03-2011, 04:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian54 View Post
however, with a correct tune (like one from OE Tuning), this problem is corrected and you are able to create more power.
you remind me of a sales person for OE Tuning. Now if you said "with a correct tune (like OE, ESS, Evolve etc)" that would be a little different.
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      09-03-2011, 05:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyGinzo View Post
Persian54: Why do you say OE Tune vs. the more popular ESS or Evolve?
I have never said that ESS/Evolve tunes are inferior to OE, or that OE tunes are better etc.

Also, just cause a tune is popular on this particular forum does not make it better, just merely different.

I feel each that tune, ESS, Evolve, and OE etc, all have their own pros and cons; they're all phenomenal tunes.

I personally prefer the OE due to the fact that, from what I've read, it produces more power over the others. (This statement is not fact).

Furthermore, OE is 5 minutes from my work, 20 minutes from my home, so they're very close and convenient. This is my main reason for getting an OE tune over others.

I have driven an ESS tuned car, and my butt dyno told me that my OE tune car feels faster, but there are other variables to take into consideration (road surface, weather, etc etc)

But nonetheless, I don't want to turn this thread into a X tune is better than X tune drama/war/etc.


If you want, you can PM me

Last edited by persian54; 09-03-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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      09-03-2011, 05:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90///M3` View Post
you remind me of a sales person for OE Tuning. Now if you said "with a correct tune (like OE, ESS, Evolve etc)" that would be a little different.
see post above

I was merely just mentioning one particular tune, rather than going into detail about other possible tunes. I didn't want to start a "so you mentioned ESS OE and Evolve, so which do you think is better and why?"
Though it seems it backfired cause the question got asked anyways lol

Also, ESS/Evolve are well known on this forum, so further mentioning of them is fruitless as it's obvious (to most members, at least to my understanding) they're effective/great tunes.

If I was a salesperson, I would mention something like "PM me for best price" or "Price sent!" or whatever else vendors usually post lol

Last edited by persian54; 09-03-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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      09-03-2011, 05:55 PM   #12
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      09-03-2011, 07:04 PM   #13
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I have a separate set of OEM pipes with the TTPs that I plan to install soon. Because my car is a lease, I don't plan on getting a tune at all and was just going to swap exhausts every time I needed to take it to the dealer.

Has anyone had their warranty voided by these or a tune? Doesn't the tune just disable the O2 sensors so there's no SES light? In that case the car still wouldn't pass emissions testing. I'm curious because getting a proper tune and leaving these pipes on is tempting.
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      09-03-2011, 08:05 PM   #14
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When I lived in England (Sea Level and cool air) I installed an Incore Enovation X-pipe (HFC) + resonators. No tune or other mods. After about 600 miles I got the CEL and would clear it via a CANBUSII reader. I didn't really notice a drop in lower rpm torque, infact if felt like I could break the rear wheels loose easier, I don't know, butt dyno isn't calibrated. But at high rpm's through the range, it for sure had more power/trq.

Now I'm back to stock as I had to ship and and get it State inspected. Gonna put the X-pipe back on and now i have the Dinan Stg II tune for a catless system + Dinan underdrive pully. So should be a complete package now. But I'm in Albuquerque and it's F!*'ng hot out. High Density Altitude. So I'm feeling the lack of power as is. On a hot summer day here it's as if the car is performing at almost 9,000ft elevation. (Pressure Altitude corrected for temperature = Density Altitude)

Will report when it's all installed. Wish I was back in Europe at sea level with this M3 again. Monster power then.
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      09-03-2011, 10:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkstarZero View Post
I have a separate set of OEM pipes with the TTPs that I plan to install soon. Because my car is a lease, I don't plan on getting a tune at all and was just going to swap exhausts every time I needed to take it to the dealer.

Has anyone had their warranty voided by these or a tune? Doesn't the tune just disable the O2 sensors so there's no SES light? In that case the car still wouldn't pass emissions testing. I'm curious because getting a proper tune and leaving these pipes on is tempting.
Make sure to have the codes cleared prior to visiting the dealer!
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      09-03-2011, 11:26 PM   #16
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primary catdelete = check engine light..
here mannn, read this http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557130
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