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      04-13-2011, 01:41 AM   #1
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CKD: Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. True Fat Loss Diet

Taken from another forum. Thought I'd share!

The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss

In recent media, low carbohydrate diets have been THE fad for almost everybody in America wanting to lose weight. From your secretaries, elementary school teachers, and desk clerks, to bodybuilders, models, actresses, and athletes.

However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities.

My opinion for those who practice Atkins is that while they do lose fat, there is much water loss and most importantly muscle loss. Something we athletes do not want. A CKD is a true fat loss diet that works undeniably, if followed properly and strictly. Yes, low carb diets can be hell at first, but after two to three weeks, there have been anecdotal reports from many dieters that the cravings for carbohydrates decrease. This route to fat burning is unlike any traditional diet all the low-fat diet authors and FDA people have been advocating in history.

I got turned onto this diet a few years back when I got tired of cutting fat and still not being able to lose those last percentage points of bodyfat without losing hard earned muscle. I would start a low-fat diet, and be a either a social misfit (not going out with my friends to party or not going out to eat). Or in the worse case, feel so deprived of delicious junk foods I missed and bail out on the diet all together. One advantage to this diet is that there is no true restrictions on food. One may eat anything labeled a "food"! Well, almost. I’ll explain later.

How the diet works.

The science behind the CKD is simple. Carbohydrates in the diet cause an insulin (a "storage" hormone) output in the pancreas. It is used to store glycogen, amino acids into muscles, while causing excess calories to be stored as fat. So common sense asks me, "How can one try to break down fat, when your body is in a storage-type mode?" Difficult to do, indeed. That is why it makes perfect sense for step one to be cutting carbs.

The next thing that happens in your body is the rise in catecholamines (a "fat mobilizing" hormone), cortisol (a "breakdown" hormone), and growth hormone. Now your body realizes there’s no more carbs to burn for energy, so it must find another energy source: fat.

This usually happens during a metabolic condition called "ketosis." This is when your liver is out of glycogen and starts to produce ketones (by-products of fatty acids). You can check your status of whether or not you are in ketosis with urinalysis strips you can pick up at any local drug store called "Ketostix." Just urinate and see if it turns color. If so, you have ketones in the urine.

When the body is fed fat and protein, it will use dietary fat along with bodyfat for energy with protein going towards repair.

As a side note, there is another reason why this diet makes the most sense to use while keeping muscle. When one follows a high carbohydrate, low-fat, reduced-calorie diet, there’s a point when some bodyfat is burned, but when the body is still in a carbohydrate burning metabolism while trying to lose "weight," it will strip down precious body protein to convert to glucose for energy.

On the other hand, during fat metabolism, protein cannot be converted into free-fatty acids for energy. Although there is no scientific research done on this, there have been reports from followers that there truly is a "protein-sparing" effect. It makes sense doesn’t it? Where else would the body look for fat energy when all dietary fat is burned? Bodyfat.

Diet Requirements Mon. to Fri.

The phrase "working smarter, not harder" applies here more than any diet one has tried. One must fully understand what they must do in order to optimize their goal. To set a CKD up, one cannot just expect to cut all carbs in the diet, train hard, and lose fat! Although some have come up with variations to this plan, the one stated in this article, I have found, has worked for myself (it got me to 6% BF), and other clients I’ve trained to the leanest, hardest they’ve ever been.

First, to set up the diet, write down your lean mass weight. Not your total weight, dough boy. If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.

The rest of your caloric requirements for the day should be fat. Here is the catch: you must eat fat to burn fat. There’s no way around it. There are many advantages to dietary fat on this diet: Feeling of fullness since fat digestion is slow (less hunger), tastes great, and lowers blood glucose levels (lowering insulin and allow all the fat burning hormones to do their job).

So how much fat? I always recommend starting out with a 500 calorie deficit from your maintenance calories. If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss.

2500 minus 640 (protein calories) is 1860 which works out to be around 206 fat grams a day. Now as you go deeper into the diet, and find the need to restrict calories more, you must cut fat calories, not protein.

The Weekend Carb Load

Since muscle glycogen is the main source of energy for anaerobic exercise such as weight training, we cannot simply deplete all stores while working out and not fill them back up. If that does happen, be rest-assured that the body WILL use protein for fuel then. But this won’t happen on the CKD.

Your one and a half days of "freedom" allow you to do two things: First, reward your carb cravings from the previous days, allowing you to enjoy pleasures like pizza, pasta, breads, etc. Second, eating these things are physiologically rewarding as insulin levels run high, storing amino acids and carbs, as glycogen, into the depleted muscle allowing you to be able to workout again the following week.

Your "carb-up" should begin Friday night and last until around midnight Saturday. Now the next important issue to address is how many carbs. Some lucky individuals find that they eat whatever they want for the 24-30 hour time interval and receive perfect glycogen compensation, while others rely on a better statistical number.

What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg.

100 Grams of easily digested liquid carbs along with around half as many grams of carbs in protein (here 50) as a whey shake or something of that nature should be taken right after the last workout (which I will address in the workout section of the article) when insulin sensitivity will be at its greatest.

A few hours later this individual will start to spread the remaining 630 grams of carbs, along with the important number of 160 grams of protein (remember, keep this constant) during the remainder of the compensation period.

So what about dietary fat? I know you’re reminding yourself, "Didn’t this guy mention pizza?" Yes, I did. And here’s why. During the first 24-30 hours of carbing up, the body will use all dietary carbohydrates to refill glycogen, protein for rebuilding, and get this: fat for energy. Still?

Just like the previous five and a half days. Makes sense. When all the carbohydrates are being used for more important functions (muscle), what else is there to be used? However, you can’t just eat all the fat you want. Keep grams of fat intake below your body weight in kilograms. Again, here our example will keep is fat below 73 during the carb-fest.

By anecdotal reports, this should keep fat regain minimal to nil. Keeping fat intake extremely low has even caused some extra fat burning during the carb up!

As stated before, some dietary fat should be eaten to slow digestion and keep sugar levels stable. Whether it be saturated, unsaturated, or essential fats, is the dieter’s decision. All have nine calories per gram. (Note: there is a claim that essential fatty acids such as flax seed oil increase insulin sensitivity within the muscle cells, in turn, increasing glycogen intake.)

In Case You Missed It

So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.

Some have found to enjoy a protein shake afterwards because they are easily digested. Do whatever works for you. But fat is not logical since you want the protein to fuel the healing process as quickly as possible and fat will only slow it down.

Friday afternoon, around two hours before your last workout of the week, eat two to three pieces of fruit. This will get your body/liver ready to start the carb loading and give you some energy for that final, dreadful workout (trust me, during the first few weeks, you will not want to do that final workout, but you must). Then from Friday night until Saturday at midnight or until bed, eat those carbs!

CKD Workout

Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.

First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.

Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:

On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:

[Excercise Regime removed. There are better ones out there, and I'm sure you guys have your own.]

Aerobics

Before we go on, I want to address the cardio/aerobics issue. Some people find that for the first month on a CKD, cardio/aerobics is not needed. However when fat loss does start to slow down a bit, that is when most start adding 30 min. sessions on their off days. Be careful though, you do not want to hinder your Thursday leg workout. So experiment and try to only add aerobic sessions if you feel you have to.

Supplements

So we have the basic diet outline stated, the workout, now what about supplements? Things that can extremely optimize this diet regime. Well, I have to admit no allegiance to any supplement company on this one: Water. Water is important on any diet, especially low carb since there is a diuretic effect, and more importantly during the carbing period. Glycogen is stored with water! You need as much water as possible to hydrate the depleted muscle. Trust me, you will feel a huge "pump" on Sunday morning from all the stored carbs and water INSIDE your muscle.

Speaking of muscle, the god of all sports supplement right now: Creatine. It can still be used on a low carb diet. Usually 10 grams a day during the low carb days, and around 20-30 grams during the carbing period should work for most everybody. I highly recommend it for everybody who doesn’t get an upset stomach using it.

Finally, one that everyone that’s dieted before knows about: The ECA stack. Most have not used pure ECA, but mainly herbal extracts in thermogenic products sold by sports supplement companies. For a pre-work out boost and increased fat burning through thermogenics (heat), this is my favorite supplement. It does its job, you feel it happening, and it can help you psychologically when you don’t feel like working out that day.

Conclusion

With all this said, I will throw my personal opinion, thanks and motivation on or for the cyclical ketogenic diet. First of all, to me, it is the greatest diet every developed. It makes sense, works and isn’t as hard to follow as one might think. Just stay motivated and concentrate on your goal.

When you have a craving during the week for that cupcake or pasta, just go eat a delicious serving of some pepperoni and melted mozzarella cheese. Or how about a hamburger patty covered in cheddar cheese and some strips of bacon? Foods that are delicious and that can satiate hunger.

I followed this exact plan this past summer for eight weeks and loss 18 pounds of fat without any loss in muscle. It was the leanest and most vascular I had ever seen myself.

And I must give thanks where thanks are due since I did not come up with this diet. Dan Duchaine, who recently passed away, brought my attention to a CKD with his book BodyOpus and Lyle McDonald has done deep research and wrote his book The Ketogenic Diet: A Complete Guide for the Dieter and Practitioner.

This diet can be for you. Oh you’re only a mass builder? Well, lower bodyfat percentages even make you look bigger! Give it some thought and decide. Then achieve your goal. It’s worth it: A diet with true fat loss.

From Bodybuilding.com

More info on: CDK Forum
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Last edited by Vanity; 04-27-2011 at 04:15 PM.
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      04-14-2011, 06:52 PM   #2
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Week 1: 204 lbs
Week 2: 196 lbs

Total week's loss: 8lbs.

I doubt it's muscle loss as I've been able to ramp up the amount of weight in my intensive workouts this week. Looks like it's water/fat!
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      04-14-2011, 11:32 PM   #3
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whew!!! long post... I'll check this out tomorrow when i'm more awake. but looks like a good write up.

and you're starting point is about the same weight i'm starting with.

used to work out a lot, then stopped, needing to get back at it as i'm getting older and my metabolizm isn't as good.
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      04-15-2011, 09:20 PM   #4
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Good info from Lyle.

Having done this I can tell you that Lyle overestimates how many calories you need.

A Keto diet is just like any other. Creating a calorific deficit causes you to lose weight. The difference with Keto is that the theory tells us it is muscle sparing compared to a balanced diet. You be the judge.

The practical application is that you do not feel hungry when keto dieting, unlike balanced dieting. The downside is the monotony of eating all that fat and protein drives you up the wall eventually!

Most people try CKD or a variant for a few cycles (say 12 week cycles) and then gradually realise a balanced diet is always best.

A worthwhile experiment. And you get to look at purple Ketostix with your pee on them every day!
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      04-20-2011, 06:52 PM   #5
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WOW great read! Thanks for the information!

Would you be able to give some specific examples of what you would eat during Monday to Friday?
I've been working out for about 3 years now!
When I first started going to the gym I just did cardio + light machine exercises for the first 8-10 months. I was able to drop my weight (25-30 pounds; going from 25%+ body fat to14-15%). Once I started a proper weight training program about 2 years ago, I was able to drop my BF to around 11-12%. I usually maintain that during the whole year but would love to cut down to 8-9% for this summer. I usually eat pretty healthy but I found it impossible to hit 8-9% without strict diet plans. Still a noob when it comes to nutrition and the fact that I'm pretty picky with food doesn't really help a lot either (I just can't eat any type of fish). Still having a hard time deciding what i should be eating exactly during those 5 days (Mon-Fri).....
Thanks again for the great read!
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      04-24-2011, 07:51 PM   #6
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I lost 18 lbs. of fat with this. BUT it is a temp. summer cutting diet not a year-round. You should only "diet" to cut like a vacation or something. After that go back to eating your salads and fruits again. It is not a "healthy" diet, you eat bacon, cheese, fats, etc.

I did this while working 10 hours a day so I didn't have time to eat junk or have any distraction's. I would also prepare my meals so I would have stuff to eat.


For breakfast I would eat 5 or 6 egg whites and 1 whole egg with cheddar cheese. Drink some water or Green Tea

Then 3 hours later I would eat chicken (from a can, Costco) mixed with low-fat Mayo and cheddar cheese. Would also eat a few jalapenos with it. And a apple.

Then 3 hours later I would eat a can of tuna mixed with Mayo and 7 wheat-thin's. I would scoop out the Tuna with the Wheat thins.

Then would eat some more chicken mixed with a salad. Lettuce, spinach, cheese, red bell peppers, red onion, low-fat Ranch dressing with chicken on top/mixed in.

For snacks I would bring moz. string cheese and pepperonis and a can of mixed nut's. And I carried around a large water bottle and drank it all before noon and filled it up again and made sure it was empty before leaving work.

Again, this is a FAD diet; not healthy for long-term but can help you "jump start" fat-loss.

Oh I would also order double stacker's from Wendy's and take off the bun's. haha



After you lose the weight switch to a healthier diet such as

1) egg whites, 1 glass skim milk, 1 slice of Ezekiel bread w/ cinnamon and honey; fresh piece of fruit

2.) 6 oz. fish, celery, carrots, low-fat cottage cheese; salad with raw veggies; water

3.) chicken/fish/meat 2 servings veggies (broc, asparagus etc.) salad.

desert: smashed up (frozen) banana w/ honey. Let it thaw for 10 min. then smash her.
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      04-24-2011, 09:42 PM   #7
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^^^

That crap doesn't even deserve a quote.


Wrong on all counts.

Certain foods don't make you fat, a caloric surplus does. The foods you listed (bacon, cheese, etc) are just calorie dense; people don't understand the idea of moderation.
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      04-25-2011, 05:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick6EF View Post
^^^

That crap doesn't even deserve a quote.


Wrong on all counts.

Certain foods don't make you fat, a caloric surplus does. The foods you listed (bacon, cheese, etc) are just calorie dense; people don't understand the idea of moderation.

We are discussing a KETO diet. You have a point about moderation in all thing's but that is another discussion entirely. If you would like to start a thread about moderation please do. This thread is about the science of putting your body in keto. If you have experience in this please contribute. Otherwise..
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      04-25-2011, 08:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
We are discussing a KETO diet. You have a point about moderation in all thing's but that is another discussion entirely. If you would like to start a thread about moderation please do. This thread is about the science of putting your body in keto. If you have experience in this please contribute. Otherwise..
That's fine, but the healthy diet you were suggesting lacks FAT. You should be consuming at least .35g of fat per LB - keeps your hormones in check (also say good-bye to your libido on a fat-free diet).

To suggest a random mish-mosh of foods to someone without knowing their goals, weight, height, BF% is pure garbage. Do you even know the total calories OP should be consuming to maintain/gain/lose weight?

See this ENTIRE thread for info on Keto: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=132598293




BRB Going to fit 680 calories of Ben & Jerry's into my daily intake. I slow bulk on 2500 cals...

Before...




After...
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      04-25-2011, 08:43 PM   #10
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I recommended a balanced meal; something the KETO diet lack's. As for fat's you can add some nut's and avacado's on the salads.

Eating too much fat is not good. Balance is the key. And cheese and bacon is not healthy fat's. So while I can recommend a KETO diet to lose some belly fat it is not a good long-term diet.
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      04-25-2011, 08:48 PM   #11
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Man a little B and J killed the kitty.
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      04-25-2011, 09:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
I recommended a balanced meal; something the KETO diet lack's. As for fat's you can add some nut's and avacado's on the salads.

Eating too much fat is not good. Balance is the key. And cheese and bacon is not healthy fat's. So while I can recommend a KETO diet to lose some belly fat it is not a good long-term diet.
You say eating too much fat is not good, but someone on a KETO diet would be consuming MORE fat than I have listed today. What makes consuming more fat "bad?"


Why are cheese and bacon "not healthy" fat?


You do know you can't spot reduce fat on the body, right? (see bold)
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      04-27-2011, 03:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojungoon View Post
WOW great read! Thanks for the information!

Would you be able to give some specific examples of what you would eat during Monday to Friday?
I've filled my fridge up with Porkchops, Boneless Chicken Thighs, 3 dozen egg carts, Ground Beef, Steaks, Cheese and Bacon.

Eggs should be one of your most flexible ingredients. Tbh, I have about 4-5 whole eggs almost every other day (for ex. 3 whole large eggs in a cheese omelette + 3 Bacon strips for breakfast) and it DOESN'T bother me. I'll address the cholesterol part of the Keto diet later on in this post, because I know eggs are associated with higher Cholesterol.

But for any other meal (and aim for 4+ meals a day to NOT put your body into starvation mode) you could have Porkchops + mushrooms with melted cheese (cheese will get you the extra bit of protein you need to meet your 1g/Lean Body Mass weight a day, and mushrooms are so low in carbs you can have as much as you want. I had 165 grams of mushrooms in one of my porkchop dishes the other night, and 165 grams equates to only 2 grams of carbs in white mushrooms), Grilled Chicken, etc etc. You can basically eat all of the meaty dishes you can't have on regular days, like Steak and Cheese!

DO NOTE: You need a HIGH fat intake on this CKD diet, as mentioned above, because in Ketosis you body burns FAT for fuel. Your first 3 days to a week of eating only high protein and high fat will induce your body to convert over to ketogenic-enzymes and NOT carb-enzymes. Keep the Fat intake high (eggs and cheese have a lot) so that your body gets Protein and Fat and will have to break down your fat storages (which came from carbs) down to get the necessary sugars it needs. Of Course, if you're a really fat individual I imagine you could lower your fat-intake a bit since you have so many calories of fat on you as is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
I lost 18 lbs. of fat with this. BUT it is a temp. summer cutting diet not a year-round. You should only "diet" to cut like a vacation or something. After that go back to eating your salads and fruits again. It is not a "healthy" diet, you eat bacon, cheese, fats, etc.

For breakfast I would eat 5 or 6 egg whites and 1 whole egg with cheddar cheese. Drink some water or Green Tea

Then 3 hours later I would eat chicken (from a can, Costco) mixed with low-fat Mayo and cheddar cheese. Would also eat a few jalapenos with it. And a apple.

Then 3 hours later I would eat a can of tuna mixed with Mayo and 7 wheat-thin's. I would scoop out the Tuna with the Wheat thins.

Then would eat some more chicken mixed with a salad. Lettuce, spinach, cheese, red bell peppers, red onion, low-fat Ranch dressing with chicken on top/mixed in.

For snacks I would bring moz. string cheese and pepperonis and a can of mixed nut's. And I carried around a large water bottle and drank it all before noon and filled it up again and made sure it was empty before leaving work.

Again, this is a FAD diet; not healthy for long-term but can help you "jump start" fat-loss.
1. You're not supposed to have Caffeine or Tea on this diet because that hinders fat loss.

2. You're supposed to keep your carb-intake under 30 grams a day, or very close to 0 grams. An apple will give you about half of 30 grams.

3. You're supposed to avoid carbs AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. No Wheat Thins.

4. You ate all those vegetables? That's quite a bit of carbs in a salad. Plus you had RANCH. I don't care if you say it's low-fat, you're supposed to have a HIGH fat intake on the CKD Diet. Ranch has A LOT of carbs, as most sauces do (like ketchup).

My Guess is you were probably never on the CKD diet. This is because you were eating a low-fat diet with carbs present. You also didn't have any carb-up weekends. Did you even read the original post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
We are discussing a KETO diet. You have a point about moderation in all thing's but that is another discussion entirely. If you would like to start a thread about moderation please do. This thread is about the science of putting your body in keto. If you have experience in this please contribute. Otherwise..
You probably weren't even in the Keto diet to begin with. Not a CKD one at that. Atkins maybe? But even then, no salads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
I recommended a balanced meal; something the KETO diet lack's. As for fat's you can add some nut's and avacado's on the salads.

Eating too much fat is not good. Balance is the key. And cheese and bacon is not healthy fat's. So while I can recommend a KETO diet to lose some belly fat it is not a good long-term diet.
It's definitely a hard diet to follow ONLY because it eliminates 99% of all the places you can eat out on the days you're not carbing up. But on the diet I feel more energetic, more alert, etc. I also don't feel sluggish and bloated after eating large protein meals as I used to with heavy carb meals.



Cholesterol: Apparently, since your body is in Ketosis and producing a lot ketogenic-enzymes, the cholesterol levels go waaaaaay down. This is most likely due to an enzyme, Glucagon, being present in high-protein, high-fat, and low-carb diets. Glucagon breaks down all glycogen reserves in the body for fuel usage.

In the normal high-carb diets, Insulin is the predominant enzyme and induces the body's cells to uptake glucose from the blood and store them. Now, if you're to eat a Ketogenic diet WHILE having carb intake, this could be VERY bad for your body and your cholesterol would shoot through the roof. But because in ketosis certain enzymes are present, it's been shown scientifically (and you can google to find your own results) that cholesterol LOWERS significantly in CKD subjects, cardiovascular disease too.
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      04-27-2011, 04:06 PM   #14
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Progress so far/Weekly update:

Week 1: 204 lbs
Week 2: 196 lbs
Week 3: 194 lbs.

This week I only lost a net-total of 2 lbs from last week. This is because on my carb-up weekend I carbed up too much and gained 5 lbs (3 lbs in water weight). I also didn't get a chance to do my cardio days so it was only lifting in the gym for 3x. That week it was 196lbs + 5lbs from water/carb-up = 201lbs.

From 201lbs, without cardio, I still went down to 194 making it a total of 7 lbs lost, but net total 2lbs.

Total Gross Weight loss in 2 weeks: (8 + 7) 15lbs
Total Net Weight loss in 2 weeks: ( 8 + 2) 10lbs.

I tried not to carb up too much, and in fact i treat my carb-up days like normal days and eat a normal amount of carbs (instead of actually carbing up like mad -- but this is just because I want to see faster results).

My Carb-up this week is 194lbs + 4lbs of carb up (2-3 lbs of which is water, since fat holds it's weight 3x in water). I'll be ramping up the cardio this week also, so I should hope to hit 190lbs total by the end of the week before my carb-up on saturday. This would be 8lbs lost, but 4lbs pure fat! I just finished a BRUTAL workout on Monday and am still feeling it today. Gotta keep those lifts intensive!


And I'm still lifting higher and higher weights and seeing more and more size/definition in my arms so I know I'm not losing muscle!

P.S. Keep your water intake HIGH guys. This diet will ravage your kidneys/liver if you aren't taking in water to help with the workouts, cardio, and dieting!!
P.S.S. I am now doing a Military/Police Academy workout regime combined with P90x Ab-ripper and cardio inbetween my workout days.
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      04-28-2011, 03:09 AM   #15
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Progress so far/Weekly update:

Week 1: 204 lbs
Week 2: 196 lbs
Week 3: 194 lbs.

This week I only lost a net-total of 2 lbs from last week. This is because on my carb-up weekend I carbed up too much and gained 5 lbs (3 lbs in water weight). I also didn't get a chance to do my cardio days so it was only lifting in the gym for 3x. That week it was 196lbs + 5lbs from water/carb-up = 201lbs.

From 201lbs, without cardio, I still went down to 194 making it a total of 7 lbs lost, but net total 2lbs.

Total Gross Weight loss in 2 weeks: (8 + 7) 15lbs
Total Net Weight loss in 2 weeks: ( 8 + 2) 10lbs.

I tried not to carb up too much, and in fact i treat my carb-up days like normal days and eat a normal amount of carbs (instead of actually carbing up like mad -- but this is just because I want to see faster results).

My Carb-up this week is 194lbs + 4lbs of carb up (2-3 lbs of which is water, since fat holds it's weight 3x in water). I'll be ramping up the cardio this week also, so I should hope to hit 190lbs total by the end of the week before my carb-up on saturday. This would be 8lbs lost, but 4lbs pure fat! I just finished a BRUTAL workout on Monday and am still feeling it today. Gotta keep those lifts intensive!


And I'm still lifting higher and higher weights and seeing more and more size/definition in my arms so I know I'm not losing muscle!

P.S. Keep your water intake HIGH guys. This diet will ravage your kidneys/liver if you aren't taking in water to help with the workouts, cardio, and dieting!!
P.S.S. I am now doing a Military/Police Academy workout regime combined with P90x Ab-ripper and cardio inbetween my workout days.
Sick..... I started this diet about 3 weeks ago lost almost 15 lbs working out 3 days a week.
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      04-30-2011, 06:44 PM   #16
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If you think your cholesterol is not affected by this diet you are crazy. Eating bacon, chicken wing's, pepperoni and other high fat greasy food's is not a healthy diet.

If you make a lifestyle change by eating low-calorie nutrition dense food's like vegetables, fish, nuts, salads, and also workout regularly then that is all you need.

If you need to lose alot of fat then this diet would be ok for maybe 8-10 week's but you will not find any doctor recommending this diet for long-term. So eventually you will need a better plan, see second paragraph.
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      04-30-2011, 07:06 PM   #17
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I did the KETO based off of Atkin's which he does not recommend "carb up". What is the point of doing that if you go crazy on carb day (most ppl. prob. will) it will take 2-3 day's to get to Ketosis then you only have 2 day's of fat burning for the week.

I lost 20lbs. so I def. was in KETO I ate less than 20g. carb's per day.
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      04-30-2011, 09:00 PM   #18
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I can't believe the crap that is being suggested these days.

Ketosis is NOT a condition all of you should be seeking. It might work in temporarily reducing your fat, but the side effects are tremendous and far more severe.

Ketosis over time will lead to Ketoacidosis. This is a state where your body can't buffer the increased acid content of your blood (ketone bodies are acidic) This has some serious ramifications:

1.) Your body will begin to break down bone to buffer the increased serum (blood) acidity, putting you at risk of increased fractures, etc. This is a normal physiologic response to chronic acidity of the blood.

2.) Bone breakdown will release calcium and phosphate into your blood - excess calcium will be excreted through your kidneys, putting you at risk of kidney stones. This will be exacerbated by the low pH of your urine (promotes uric acid crystal formation).

3.) Rapid increase in cholesterol, putting you at risk of atherosclerosis and cardiac MIs (heart attacks), vascular disease, and strokes at a young age.

4.) Depletion of muscle glycogen will lead to MUSCLE ATROPHY, defeating the purpose of the diet. The ketogenic diet starves your body of glycogen, the fuel used by your muscle.

The reasons go on and on. If you don't believe me, look up alcoholic ketoacidosis. The disease process is similar to a ketogenic diet. Feel free to do as you wish, but at least please understand the risks of such a diet before undertaking it.

Cheers
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      05-01-2011, 01:38 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
I did the KETO based off of Atkin's which he does not recommend "carb up". What is the point of doing that if you go crazy on carb day (most ppl. prob. will) it will take 2-3 day's to get to Ketosis then you only have 2 day's of fat burning for the week.

I lost 20lbs. so I def. was in KETO I ate less than 20g. carb's per day.
The point of a carb-up day is to "trick" the body that everything is ok with yourself, and restore all the fat-burning (and other hormones) to normal levels. When your body senses you are dieting, especially to extreme levels, it will slow down a lot of its processes in order to reduce energy expenditure. Lyle McDonald covers this in some of his books, and it's a technique Martin Berkhan uses for his clients as well.
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      05-02-2011, 09:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
If you think your cholesterol is not affected by this diet you are crazy. Eating bacon, chicken wing's, pepperoni and other high fat greasy food's is not a healthy diet.

If you make a lifestyle change by eating low-calorie nutrition dense food's like vegetables, fish, nuts, salads, and also workout regularly then that is all you need.

If you need to lose alot of fat then this diet would be ok for maybe 8-10 week's but you will not find any doctor recommending this diet for long-term. So eventually you will need a better plan, see second paragraph.
It's unhealthy on a NORMAL diet. If you understood the hormone change on a ketogenic diet you'd understand WHY your cholesterol goes down. On a REGULAR diet the hormones present, combined with such unhealthy foods as this, WILL give you high cholesterol yes. But not in a ketogenic state, if only you had paid more attention in Biology class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
I did the KETO based off of Atkin's which he does not recommend "carb up". What is the point of doing that if you go crazy on carb day (most ppl. prob. will) it will take 2-3 day's to get to Ketosis then you only have 2 day's of fat burning for the week.

I lost 20lbs. so I def. was in KETO I ate less than 20g. carb's per day.
Initial entrance into the Ketogenic state does take 2-3 days, yes. Once in ketosis, and after a day of carbing up, it takes 24 hours to re-enter ketosis. Don't believe me? Go on the diet yourself, carb-up, and then go pee on a ketostix 24 hours later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
I can't believe the crap that is being suggested these days.

Ketosis is NOT a condition all of you should be seeking. It might work in temporarily reducing your fat, but the side effects are tremendous and far more severe.

Ketosis over time will lead to Ketoacidosis. This is a state where your body can't buffer the increased acid content of your blood (ketone bodies are acidic) This has some serious ramifications:

1.) Your body will begin to break down bone to buffer the increased serum (blood) acidity, putting you at risk of increased fractures, etc. This is a normal physiologic response to chronic acidity of the blood.

2.) Bone breakdown will release calcium and phosphate into your blood - excess calcium will be excreted through your kidneys, putting you at risk of kidney stones. This will be exacerbated by the low pH of your urine (promotes uric acid crystal formation).

3.) Rapid increase in cholesterol, putting you at risk of atherosclerosis and cardiac MIs (heart attacks), vascular disease, and strokes at a young age.

4.) Depletion of muscle glycogen will lead to MUSCLE ATROPHY, defeating the purpose of the diet. The ketogenic diet starves your body of glycogen, the fuel used by your muscle.

The reasons go on and on. If you don't believe me, look up alcoholic ketoacidosis. The disease process is similar to a ketogenic diet. Feel free to do as you wish, but at least please understand the risks of such a diet before undertaking it.

Cheers
I will look into risks 1 & 2, but risks 3 and 4 are not relevant.

1) On this diet the body simply DOES NOT increase in cholesterol but actually GOES DOWN in cholesterol because of the enzymes missing associated with carb intake (such as insulin, the hormone used to uptake high concentrations of glucose in your blood, and the conversion of food into glycogen)

2) Did you even read the post at all? Seriously. This diet was MADE to prevent muscle-loss. Here's the run down: You work out, using up the glycogen in your muscles to perform this anaerobic excercise. Glycogen is depleted. If you continue on this diet WITHOUT carbing up (like the atkins keto diet) you will lose muscle because your body will break it down for energy.

The CKD diet allows for a 24 hour to 48 hour carb-up period in which your body leaves ketosis and uses the carbs first and foremost to replenish your glycogen storages in the muscles -- it simply will not store this as fat since there is high-need to replenish glycogen in muscles for the activities of weight lifting later on throughout the week.

3) Not sure about the development of kidney stones, but the diet instills a high water intake. My urine is completely clear.

4) Cultures, such as the Inuit, have had for centuries NO ACCESS to carbohydrates. In cold plains where they live, growing crops is simply not possible -- and definitely improbably since they live a nomadic lifestyle (which also rules out going to the local store and buying them). And yet, the Inuit experience almost no illnesses like the ones we have, low cholesterol, and very good cardiac health. There were studies conducted on this. The only thing affecting the Inuit are Alcohol and Tobacco.


But I'll look more into ketoacidosis.


P.S. No where is it written that this is a long-term lifestyle change. It is clearly labelled a diet, and as such it is hoped that the average person is already well educated in what the term "diet" means if they plan on committing themselves to a complete excercise regime. But if you don't, a diet is a change in eating habits for a SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. Drop the long-term lifestyle implications of this already, goodness.
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      05-03-2011, 09:04 PM   #21
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Good post Vanity but a bit confusing. So according to this diet you should eat almost no carbs and high fats? And by doing this you'll lose fat? It's kind of against everything I've read. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong but from your results I think it is worth a try.

And I would need about 165g of protein a day. How the fawk am i gonna get that much protein in me lol
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      05-03-2011, 11:10 PM   #22
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It's unhealthy on a NORMAL diet. If you understood the hormone change on a ketogenic diet you'd understand WHY your cholesterol goes down. On a REGULAR diet the hormones present, combined with such unhealthy foods as this, WILL give you high cholesterol yes. But not in a ketogenic state, if only you had paid more attention in Biology class.



Initial entrance into the Ketogenic state does take 2-3 days, yes. Once in ketosis, and after a day of carbing up, it takes 24 hours to re-enter ketosis. Don't believe me? Go on the diet yourself, carb-up, and then go pee on a ketostix 24 hours later.



I will look into risks 1 & 2, but risks 3 and 4 are not relevant.

1) On this diet the body simply DOES NOT increase in cholesterol but actually GOES DOWN in cholesterol because of the enzymes missing associated with carb intake (such as insulin, the hormone used to uptake high concentrations of glucose in your blood, and the conversion of food into glycogen)

2) Did you even read the post at all? Seriously. This diet was MADE to prevent muscle-loss. Here's the run down: You work out, using up the glycogen in your muscles to perform this anaerobic excercise. Glycogen is depleted. If you continue on this diet WITHOUT carbing up (like the atkins keto diet) you will lose muscle because your body will break it down for energy.

The CKD diet allows for a 24 hour to 48 hour carb-up period in which your body leaves ketosis and uses the carbs first and foremost to replenish your glycogen storages in the muscles -- it simply will not store this as fat since there is high-need to replenish glycogen in muscles for the activities of weight lifting later on throughout the week.

3) Not sure about the development of kidney stones, but the diet instills a high water intake. My urine is completely clear.

4) Cultures, such as the Inuit, have had for centuries NO ACCESS to carbohydrates. In cold plains where they live, growing crops is simply not possible -- and definitely improbably since they live a nomadic lifestyle (which also rules out going to the local store and buying them). And yet, the Inuit experience almost no illnesses like the ones we have, low cholesterol, and very good cardiac health. There were studies conducted on this. The only thing affecting the Inuit are Alcohol and Tobacco.


But I'll look more into ketoacidosis.


P.S. No where is it written that this is a long-term lifestyle change. It is clearly labelled a diet, and as such it is hoped that the average person is already well educated in what the term "diet" means if they plan on committing themselves to a complete excercise regime. But if you don't, a diet is a change in eating habits for a SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. Drop the long-term lifestyle implications of this already, goodness.

Well now, where do I begin. It's clear that you are completely out of your league, sir.

1.) Cholesterol intake has NOTHING to do with your levels of insulin (or counter-regulatory hormones for that matter). Eating that sort of diet will lead to increased levels of cholesterol intake into your body. The cholesterol is taken up by particles (lipoproteins) into your bloodstream. Your liver ordinarily is involved with removing excess cholesterol in the blood, via receptor-mediated uptake. When you have very high levels of cholesterol in your blood, some of that cholesterol is taken up by phagocytes (macrophages) in the lining of your arteries. Phagocytes then oxidize the protein-cholesterol particles, ultimately leading to deposition of lipids in your blood vessel walls, and ATHEROSCLEROSIS (which is a direct cause of vascular disease and heart attacks).

2.) You are correct that the ketogenic diet will downregulate insulin, as the body perceives that you are in a low-energy (fasting) state due to low glucose levels. The body's reaction to this is to activate hormone-sensitive lipase in your adipose tissues, releasing fatty acids into your blood stream. Coupled with your excessive ingestion of fats (eg. bacon), you end up in a state of hypertriglyceridemia (high lipid levels in your blood), which is a direct risk factor for heart attacks and strokes.

3.) Your liver attempts to compensate for your low glucose levels by ketogenesis (ketosis). It does this by taking up SOME of the fats in your circulation (as well as proteins) and converts them into ketone bodies. One of the side effects is that some fat gets stored in your liver, and over time can lead to fatty liver disease, a cause of hepatic cirrhosis and hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer).

4.) I've heard about the 'Inuit hypothesis'. Current theory holds that they likely have genetic differences (due to natural selection) that allow them to maintain a ketogenic diet without any adverse effects. These DNA sequencing studies I believe are currently ongoing.


Ketogenic diet adverse effects summary:


1.) Increased cholesterol levels -> increased risk of heart attack or stroke
2.) Increased lipid levels in blood -> increased risk of heart attack, stroke, and/or liver disease
3.) Increased risk of kidney stones

You are right, the point of a diet is to be short term. MY point, however, is that no one knows for certain what delineates between "short term" and "long term". There is no clear-cut line between 'safe' , short term ketosis and long-term, damaging ketosis. Plus, I would assume that one would have to repeatedly return to the diet to maintain those weight losses, unless you manage the impossible (maintaining your post-diet weight perfectly, forever).

I don't understand why one would choose this diet, but it's your choice if you choose to follow it. However, don't portray your diet as perfectly safe or medically sound. I just want to make sure that everyone is well and truly aware of the potential health issues associated with a ketogenic diet, upon which they can make an informed decision. If you don't believe me, speak to your physician. Or, open a physiology textbook.


Best of luck

Last edited by Echo M3; 05-03-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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