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      10-31-2013, 01:39 PM   #551
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Sometimes it's hard to hear when already in a relationship but part of being in the right relationship is being in it with the right person. Keep in mind that if she's not right for you, then you aren't right for her.

Being polite and "doing the right thing" by proposing has ruined millions of marriages and many lives.

The skyping at 9 thing isn't all that uncommon though. As long as she can understand that you are a creature of habit and that once we have done the same thing more than a hand full of times that you assume we are going to continue doing that until otherwise notified. In her eyes, you were notified.

Same thing happened with my wife and i one night. Centered around dinner of course. We always get chipoltle on tuesday nights and i stop and pick it up on the way home. I picked it up one night and when i got home she was already making dinner. Now i mean for like 3 months, ever tuesday i picked up Chipoltle. And she saw no fault in her actions of making dinner on Tuesday night. I didn't make anything better when i opted to eat Chipoltle that night.

So, now I always text, Chipoltle? when on the way home and she responds or i don't get it.
It is hard to hear, but you are far from being the first person to say that. She will say things like she is "screwed either way" coming out here or not, and things along those lines, which makes me feel she isn't happy with me as a person or my actions.

I understand with her feeling I was notified, and thats good and gravy, but to blow it out of proportion, is completely childish in my eyes. Yes, she notified me of a time, but I had asked if she was ready since I hadn't heard from her, is asking for a simple yes out of line for me to expect? Say I should have been on, and leave it at that, but she will literally go on about it. Then in turn, that leads to other nonsense, and we never end up having a normal conversation. Its quite frustrating.

In the situation with your wife, how did she handle it? Was it drawn out, or do you both get over it pretty quickly?
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      10-31-2013, 01:51 PM   #552
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I don't think all these traits necessarily go hand in hand. Would I save my kid over my SO in a life or death situation? Kid can't help himself, boyfriend can, so, uh, yeah. Does this mean I'm going to give my kid everything and spoil him until he's a soft little boy with a victim mentality, and always side with him rather than my SO? Absolutely not.

Do I love him more than I do my SO? In a different way, but probably. I'm chemically designed to. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with my relationship, or that I can't fully love my SO. But perhaps that's just my experience.
I didn't mean to offend anyone.

By life and death i meant if a psychopath held them both at gunpoint and said chose. Or if you prefer, a situation where both needed assistance and which ever one you assisted would live and the other would die.

Also, and again, no offense, but i don't think you really can weigh in on the spouse vs child thing. It's not as if you chose to make a life with your boyfriend, married him, then decided to produce a child. These were circumstances you were saddled with against your will. There is no other choice for a decent person than to make the best of it as possible. And while you haven't fully committed to each other, i commend you and your SO for making strides to build your relationship together. In your case, a child is the anchor of that and done correctly, i think the child can be the beneficiary as well. Marriage isn't for everyone one and i'm not slamming your or judging you for not being married. People have to do what works. But make no mistake, just being together will not produce a well rounded child. Your life, decisions, attitude, words, etc... will always influence your child and his character.

This last part leads back to my point. Children aren't dumb, they are quite intuitive and KNOW if you love them more than your spouse. They can sense this and exploit it when possible. But the worst part is that they grow up thinking that a spouse isn't as important as a child. Argue that all you want with being chemically designed a certain way, but in most cases this breeds a lack of respect for their future significant others or spouse.

A lot of people will say if you want to see how a man will treat you look at how he treats his mother. A better clue is to see how his father treated his mother. The same goes for a woman; see how her mother treats her father and you're likely in for a similar dose.

Of course there are exceptions to all rules so try not to take it personally.
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      10-31-2013, 01:54 PM   #553
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It is hard to hear, but you are far from being the first person to say that. She will say things like she is "screwed either way" coming out here or not, and things along those lines, which makes me feel she isn't happy with me as a person or my actions.

I understand with her feeling I was notified, and thats good and gravy, but to blow it out of proportion, is completely childish in my eyes. Yes, she notified me of a time, but I had asked if she was ready since I hadn't heard from her, is asking for a simple yes out of line for me to expect? Say I should have been on, and leave it at that, but she will literally go on about it. Then in turn, that leads to other nonsense, and we never end up having a normal conversation. Its quite frustrating.

In the situation with your wife, how did she handle it? Was it drawn out, or do you both get over it pretty quickly?
You're right about how it's handled.

My wife shrugged it off. Just like training a dog, the correction should be in proportion to the offense. But that can be a learned trait for people in a relationship. I have certainly learned that over the years.


Until i began eating my burrito. But yeah, i brought that on myself!
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      10-31-2013, 01:57 PM   #554
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Can someone who has been happily married 10+ years chime in on the pros and cons of marriage?
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      10-31-2013, 01:59 PM   #555
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You're right about how it's handled.

My wife shrugged it off. Just like training a dog, the correction should be in proportion to the offense. But that can be a learned trait for people in a relationship. I have certainly learned that over the years.


Until i began eating my burrito. But yeah, i brought that on myself!
And we have had discussions in the past, numerous numerous numerous times, about how we will help each other handle things differently, but when I do try to calm her down from the start, she is clearly still fuming, which allows it to get drawn out. She can not let things go like I can, and when she keeps at it, my attitude will severely alter and I will become nasty in return.

I guess it goes hand in hand with, if you can't respect me enough to talk to me like your SO after a few minutes, why should I try and butter things up to make her feel better? Wouldn't that be lying (in a sense)?
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      10-31-2013, 02:07 PM   #556
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I didn't mean to offend anyone.

By life and death i meant if a psychopath held them both at gunpoint and said chose. Or if you prefer, a situation where both needed assistance and which ever one you assisted would live and the other would die.

Also, and again, no offense, but i don't think you really can weigh in on the spouse vs child thing. It's not as if you chose to make a life with your boyfriend, married him, then decided to produce a child. These were circumstances you were saddled with against your will. There is no other choice for a decent person than to make the best of it as possible. And while you haven't fully committed to each other, i commend you and your SO for making strides to build your relationship together. In your case, a child is the anchor of that and done correctly, i think the child can be the beneficiary as well. Marriage isn't for everyone one and i'm not slamming your or judging you for not being married. People have to do what works. But make no mistake, just being together will not produce a well rounded child. Your life, decisions, attitude, words, etc... will always influence your child and his character.

This last part leads back to my point. Children aren't dumb, they are quite intuitive and KNOW if you love them more than your spouse. They can sense this and exploit it when possible. But the worst part is that they grow up thinking that a spouse isn't as important as a child. Argue that all you want with being chemically designed a certain way, but in most cases this breeds a lack of respect for their future significant others or spouse.

A lot of people will say if you want to see how a man will treat you look at how he treats his mother. A better clue is to see how his father treated his mother. The same goes for a woman; see how her mother treats her father and you're likely in for a similar dose.

Of course there are exceptions to all rules so try not to take it personally.
I wasn't taking it personally, just using "I" for ease of conveyance. No "no offenses" needed, we all have different opinions!
You're right, I'm in a very different situation, but I did want to show that kids aren't always the destroyer of worlds, even in the most unplanned situation. Our being together has pretty minimal bearing on his shaping as a person, but I don't think it hurts not to be in a situation where the parents are poisoning the kid against each other.

It's funny, because I was always trained to think you'd pick the kid. When you consider that you can always make more kids (not quite the same) but that without your SO you'd have to start over completely with some pretty devastating consequences, it doesn't really make sense to. Hard to balance emotion and logic sometimes, though.

You make an interesting point at the end there; I'd never really thought about it like that. My mom always put me first, partially because my dad is a selfish jackhole, but I don't think I feel any less respect towards spouses toward it. They say women tend to seek men who are similar to their fathers, and so I think if anything it's put me in places where perhaps the men are selfish but I feel the need to put in extra love, so sort of the opposite. Hmm.
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      10-31-2013, 02:07 PM   #557
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And we have had discussions in the past, numerous numerous numerous times, about how we will help each other handle things differently, but when I do try to calm her down from the start, she is clearly still fuming, which allows it to get drawn out. She can not let things go like I can, and when she keeps at it, my attitude will severely alter and I will become nasty in return.

I guess it goes hand in hand with, if you can't respect me enough to talk to me like your SO after a few minutes, why should I try and butter things up to make her feel better? Wouldn't that be lying (in a sense)?
It can't be that one sided forever. Maybe for a while if both of you are trying to make those blow ups be much smaller. But for any extended period of time it becomes unhealthy.

As Biorin said, being completely honest with each other and not taking offense when being honest plays a large role in a successful relationship. It is hard to start an in depth conversation that has the potential to blow up into a fight when you guys are getting along. It's difficult to risk the happy time while you have it. But that won't bring change. Just the same old circle of behavior.
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      10-31-2013, 02:10 PM   #558
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It can't be that one sided forever. Maybe for a while if both of you are trying to make those blow ups be much smaller. But for any extended period of time it becomes unhealthy.

As Biorin said, being completely honest with each other and not taking offense when being honest plays a large role in a successful relationship. It is hard to start an in depth conversation that has the potential to blow up into a fight when you guys are getting along. It's difficult to risk the happy time while you have it. But that won't bring change. Just the same old circle of behavior.
It has been 3 years to put it into retrospect. She will say its been a struggle from the start. So in my mind, why does she stick around if its been that bad?
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      10-31-2013, 02:13 PM   #559
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Can someone who has been happily married 10+ years chime in on the pros and cons of marriage?
I am 33 years old and going on 10 years myself. What are your questions?
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      10-31-2013, 02:23 PM   #560
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It has been 3 years to put it into retrospect. She will say its been a struggle from the start. So in my mind, why does she stick around if its been that bad?
3 years, struggle from the start, still a struggle, long distance.... For me, and maybe my age has something to do with this, but the writing is on the wall.

There would be only 2 reasons for her sticking around. She's on the look out for someone else. Or it's not that bad but, she thinks by telling you it is, she's motivating you to be the way she wants you to be.

This is of course my uninvolved, never met either of you, professional opinion.
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      10-31-2013, 03:36 PM   #561
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And we have had discussions in the past, numerous numerous numerous times, about how we will help each other handle things differently, but when I do try to calm her down from the start, she is clearly still fuming, which allows it to get drawn out. She can not let things go like I can, and when she keeps at it, my attitude will severely alter and I will become nasty in return.

I guess it goes hand in hand with, if you can't respect me enough to talk to me like your SO after a few minutes, why should I try and butter things up to make her feel better? Wouldn't that be lying (in a sense)?

Your girlfriend's attitude sounds very similar to a previous girlfriend of mine. She would also tell me that the relationship is a struggle for her because I was somehow always making it difficult. I'm not sure how I was doing that because I'm a pretty easy going guy. Basically what it came down to was everything had to be done her way, and any objection or suggestion to it was me being difficult. Of course there has to be compromise in every relationship, I just wasn't cool with it being from me 100% of the time.

I'm not sure if your situation is similar. From the sounds of it though, I most likely wouldn't want to continue down the current path if I were in your shoes.
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      10-31-2013, 04:10 PM   #562
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I am 33 years old and going on 10 years myself. What are your questions?
What benefit does a man have to get married as opposed to just being in a relationship?
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      10-31-2013, 04:32 PM   #563
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What benefit does a man have to get married as opposed to just being in a relationship?
She's the most amazing woman I've ever met. Why wouldn't I want to call her my wife? Makes me proud every time I introduce her that way. It's the highest level of commitment I can give her and she can give me. I was 23 and she was 21. We got married after dating for 9 months. Not a single regret.
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      10-31-2013, 04:46 PM   #564
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What benefit does a man have to get married as opposed to just being in a relationship?
If you have to weigh the pros and cons before asking a woman to spend the rest of her life with you, you shouldn't ask her.

When you want it there are no pros and cons of being married vs a relationship, you just want to be married to that person.

All the weighing and measuring is done when you're getting to know that person. If after all that you decide you are compatible, you're emotions will let you know if you want that commitment.

I actually resisted my emotions for weeks after i met my wife. The day i met her, i told my friend who showed up at my work after she left, that he just missed my future wife. We were both stunned since i was in a place far, far, away from wanting to be married. I had just closed on a house and was ready to pick out a puppy. So i was in it deep from the start. With my deep attraction to her, knowing that she had good credit, was an independent woman, had her shit together, etc... i was hooked. So i resisted kissing her for a long time. We did something together every day for 8 weeks without me kissing her. Because i knew once i did, it was over. So i did my 8 week evaluation and took the plunge. My suspicions were correct as i started designing her ring 4 months later.

But everyone is different. For you, it may be better to stay in a relationship. Me, i like being able to get into a knock down drag out fight with my woman and know that even though she's mad a fuck at me, that she's still got my back. And i have hers.

Plus it's cool to have someone to make you sammiches and do your laundry.
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      10-31-2013, 05:24 PM   #565
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Seriously, I get medical insurance out of it! And she and her sisters are some of the best Mexican cooks I know. TRuly the way to my heart is via my stomach.

I know that even when we scream and yell at each other, make each other cry, don't talk to each other for a few days, we are STILL going to make up and say "I love you"
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      10-31-2013, 05:26 PM   #566
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3 years, struggle from the start, still a struggle, long distance.... For me, and maybe my age has something to do with this, but the writing is on the wall.

There would be only 2 reasons for her sticking around. She's on the look out for someone else. Or it's not that bad but, she thinks by telling you it is, she's motivating you to be the way she wants you to be.

This is of course my uninvolved, never met either of you, professional opinion.
She does expect me to be a certain way. I guess women will have specific expectations of how their counter part should be, and thats natural. Just as we expect certain things of a woman. The whole circumstance of our situation is what makes it especially difficult. I've already dumped money, as well as she, into looking into college out here. We have good times, and a lot of bad, but I always looked at the good, where she would bring up negative things.
Shitty situation, but I built it for myself. I will say, its good seeing more experienced knowledge from outsiders, because most reactions I get to my situation, are very biased. That only makes things harder.

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Your girlfriend's attitude sounds very similar to a previous girlfriend of mine. She would also tell me that the relationship is a struggle for her because I was somehow always making it difficult. I'm not sure how I was doing that because I'm a pretty easy going guy. Basically what it came down to was everything had to be done her way, and any objection or suggestion to it was me being difficult. Of course there has to be compromise in every relationship, I just wasn't cool with it being from me 100% of the time.

I'm not sure if your situation is similar. From the sounds of it though, I most likely wouldn't want to continue down the current path if I were in your shoes.
That is basically on par. I never call her out on anything, and I try to end things before they escalate. She seems to pursue these opportunities, and we get in these positions. I understand compromise in the same aspect as you, and most compromise had to come from my end, because I am apparently the ignorant one (ha).
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      10-31-2013, 05:29 PM   #567
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Seriously, I get medical insurance out of it! And she and her sisters are some of the best Mexican cooks I know. TRuly the way to my heart is via my stomach.

I know that even when we scream and yell at each other, make each other cry, don't talk to each other for a few days, we are STILL going to make up and say "I love you"
Yeah, we always make up and say "I love you", but that is NOT how two people should have to spend their time with each other..., making up? I would rather be alone. Reason being, screaming at each other, don't talk, make each other cry...., there is no reason to live like that. I would rather say "I love you" to my family, and not argue with anyone.
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      10-31-2013, 05:51 PM   #568
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because if you don't marry the women at most usually after 2 years she'll likely leave and find someonelse?
You're 18.

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She's the most amazing woman I've ever met. Why wouldn't I want to call her my wife? Makes me proud every time I introduce her that way. It's the highest level of commitment I can give her and she can give me. I was 23 and she was 21. We got married after dating for 9 months. Not a single regret.
I get the reasons why you married who is now your wife, but I don't see any benefits listed. I guess I already know the answer to that question. Dual income, shared expenses, consistent love making (w/o concern of STD), companionship, and that's usually where I stop. Thanks for sharing.

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If you have to weigh the pros and cons before asking a woman to spend the rest of her life with you, you shouldn't ask her.

When you want it there are no pros and cons of being married vs a relationship, you just want to be married to that person.

All the weighing and measuring is done when you're getting to know that person. If after all that you decide you are compatible, you're emotions will let you know if you want that commitment.

I actually resisted my emotions for weeks after i met my wife. The day i met her, i told my friend who showed up at my work after she left, that he just missed my future wife. We were both stunned since i was in a place far, far, away from wanting to be married. I had just closed on a house and was ready to pick out a puppy. So i was in it deep from the start. With my deep attraction to her, knowing that she had good credit, was an independent woman, had her shit together, etc... i was hooked. So i resisted kissing her for a long time. We did something together every day for 8 weeks without me kissing her. Because i knew once i did, it was over. So i did my 8 week evaluation and took the plunge. My suspicions were correct as i started designing her ring 4 months later.

But everyone is different. For you, it may be better to stay in a relationship. Me, i like being able to get into a knock down drag out fight with my woman and know that even though she's mad a fuck at me, that she's still got my back. And i have hers.

Plus it's cool to have someone to make you sammiches and do your laundry.
I disagree with your first statement. You most definitely need to be honest with yourself and know the pros of cons of getting into marriage with someone for the rest of your life. You need to know if her/his flaws are something that you're willing to live with before progessing. It's usually that small thing that you ignore in the beginning of a relationship ends up being the same root cause of a divorce.

I like your approach of dating your now wife without getting physically involved for a while because once you get a taste of the nectar, everything seems perfect about a woman!
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      10-31-2013, 06:20 PM   #569
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If you have to weigh the pros and cons before asking a woman to spend the rest of her life with you, you shouldn't ask her.

When you want it there are no pros and cons of being married vs a relationship, you just want to be married to that person.

All the weighing and measuring is done when you're getting to know that person. If after all that you decide you are compatible, you're emotions will let you know if you want that commitment.

I actually resisted my emotions for weeks after i met my wife. The day i met her, i told my friend who showed up at my work after she left, that he just missed my future wife. We were both stunned since i was in a place far, far, away from wanting to be married. I had just closed on a house and was ready to pick out a puppy. So i was in it deep from the start. With my deep attraction to her, knowing that she had good credit, was an independent woman, had her shit together, etc... i was hooked. So i resisted kissing her for a long time. We did something together every day for 8 weeks without me kissing her. Because i knew once i did, it was over. So i did my 8 week evaluation and took the plunge. My suspicions were correct as i started designing her ring 4 months later.

But everyone is different. For you, it may be better to stay in a relationship. Me, i like being able to get into a knock down drag out fight with my woman and know that even though she's mad a fuck at me, that she's still got my back. And i have hers.

Plus it's cool to have someone to make you sammiches and do your laundry.
I respect everything you have said here, and I'm very happy that you are able to make things work with your wife. Every situation does have its differences. I don't care if I am with my present now, or in the future, I will always have her back and support her. She is now a part of my life, just as I support any of the women I've been with in the past.
However, its one thing to have a quick pissing contest, as opposed to having a 2/3 hour bickerfest over what should have been nothing. There is always benefit of the doubt, as every person has positive traits in some way shape or form, but don't always coincide, which creates a boundary much like what I am in. I would give up anything for the best of her, but the clashing wouldn't create a positive living environment for anyone involved.
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      10-31-2013, 08:19 PM   #570
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I disagree with your first statement. You most definitely need to be honest with yourself and know the pros of cons of getting into marriage with someone for the rest of your life. You need to know if her/his flaws are something that you're willing to live with before progessing. It's usually that small thing that you ignore in the beginning of a relationship ends up being the same root cause of a divorce.

I like your approach of dating your now wife without getting physically involved for a while because once you get a taste of the nectar, everything seems perfect about a woman!
What i meant by my first statement was; if you're in a relationship and need to weigh the pros and cons of marriage, you shouldn't ask her. My 3rd point in that post should have clarified that. On statement is weight the pros and cons of marriage. The other is evaluating a potential mate. If the two of you are compatible and you're hot for that person, could be wedding bells....

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Originally Posted by Billup View Post
I respect everything you have said here, and I'm very happy that you are able to make things work with your wife. Every situation does have its differences. I don't care if I am with my present now, or in the future, I will always have her back and support her. She is now a part of my life, just as I support any of the women I've been with in the past.
However, its one thing to have a quick pissing contest, as opposed to having a 2/3 hour bickerfest over what should have been nothing. There is always benefit of the doubt, as every person has positive traits in some way shape or form, but don't always coincide, which creates a boundary much like what I am in. I would give up anything for the best of her, but the clashing wouldn't create a positive living environment for anyone involved.
It's been give and take from the start. When we met and argued about something i would want to talk it all out and she wanted to just drop it and forget about it. I didn't work like that and we were at the opposite ends of the spectrum. But as time went by, i learned how to just drop it and get over it and she warmed up to wanting to talk it all out. We actually switched places after several years. Now we're making our way back to the center of the spectrum. So when she want's to drop it i can deal with that and when i want to talk about it, she can deal with that.

What i'm getting at is when two people are right for each other, they will always compromise for the good of the relationship.
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      10-31-2013, 08:27 PM   #571
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From reading about the little tidbits of your relationship, Billup, it reminds me of mine. Lots of arguing and making up, lots of compromise from my end. In the end it just gets old.

Some of us choose better than others. I chose poorly, but I was in love, felt she was "the one" within weeks of meeting her, started changing things, giving up dreams "for her", and ignored red flags.

Love my kids to death but agree with Biorin, doesn't mean I give in to their demands and let them grow up into uncontrollable, unappreciative brats.

To me, I now put marriage in with religion and politics. I know my position, and unless someone really wants my opinion, I won't really state what it is or try to push it down people's throats.

As Mr. Thinka said, marriage isn't for everyone. It certainly isn't for me, and it took a failed marriage to really learn that. I also learned, and plan to teach my kids, that it's not worth to give up your dreams for anybody. If you meet the right person, and they don't like something you do or want to accomplish, they aren't the right person for you.

Now that I have kids and my single-dad family, I really don't see a point to ever get married again. I can hire a maid for the laundry, and I make a damn fine sandwich myself, let alone my awesome smoked chicken!

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      10-31-2013, 08:43 PM   #572
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I really feel for people in bad relationships; it's such a frustrating thing for everyone involved. My wife and I have seen a number of our close friends over the years get married and then divorced. It's tough.

Glad to hear some stories here about people who bounced back.

As for weighing relationship vs. marriage... you know when you know I guess.
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